Gendo in 3.0 and beyond

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment is scheduled to debut in Japan at some date to be announced.

Moderators: Rebuild/OT Moderators, Board Staff

driftking18594
Bridge Bunny
Bridge Bunny
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sep 26, 2011
Location: NERV Irish Branch
Gender: Male

[SPOILERS] Gendo in 3.0 and beyond

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby driftking18594 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:17 am

One of the many things which strikes me as odd about Q is what has happened to Gendo's Scenario. After 2.0, I thought that the last thing Gendo would want for his scenario would be a broken Shinji - there would be a chance he would decide "everybody should just die" during the next Impact.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:46 am

I can't say precisely what's going on, but apparently everything's going according to plan... (Is it ever not? :tongue: ) He assures Fuyutsuki that "Seele's scenario is being rewritten by us", and tells Lilith's dismembered head, "The time for enacting our final plans is coming. Wait just a little longer, Yui."

Lots of Gendo and Gendo-relevant lines still pending translation at the moment.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Darkwing
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 779
Joined: Nov 14, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Darkwing » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:01 pm

Well after going though the translation thread I think I've figured out part of Gendo's plan. He's trying to get Shinji as fixated on Rei as he is on Yui. Gendo needs Shinji to do things a certain way in order to get his Reunion with Yui. And now it looks like Rei is stuck in Unit-01 as well. So if Gendo can get Shinji so he's willing to do whatever it'd take to get reunited with Rei, then Gendo can use it to get to Yui. Unfourtunatly this means that when Shinji rejects Gendo's plan, Rei will probably be lost.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

Seele00TextOnly
Phospholipid Bilayer
Phospholipid Bilayer
Age: 39
Posts: 1806
Joined: Sep 23, 2007
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Seele00TextOnly » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:10 pm

Darkwing, that is a brilliant assessment that puts into a crystalne focus what Gendo's plan has almost certainly been, with regards to Shinji. Really cool, hadn't thought of it like that at all. It fits so well too.
Shinji embraces the otaku empowerment fantasy and dives headfirst into his mother's basement. -Chrad
Acts of man are better than acts of god. -Misato

Darkwing
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 779
Joined: Nov 14, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Darkwing » Sun Dec 16, 2012 9:42 am

All through the series there are hints that Gendo isn't all bad, or at least uncaring about Shinji. Honestly if Rei's dinner party had gone down, it would have been a very major thing for Shinji and Gendo. Awkward I'm sure, but it could have been a start.

Someone said that Gendo is may not have wanted to get close to Shinji because he knows he'll be losing him again soon. And that's a possibility. Also, lets face it, Gendo sereously betrays Shinji again. By the time Gendo's plans for Shinji are done in 3.0, Shinji has lost Kawrou, and had to fight nearly everyone else he ever cared about. Gendo said you have to make sacrifices for your dreams, and he's sacrified not only any chance of ever reconcililing with his son, but possibly any chance of his son finding happiness.

And it may not be Shinji. I wonder if Gendo didn't find losing Rei 2 more painful than he anticipated. He may have delebriatly avoided forming any sort of relationship with Rei 9 so as to avoid that pain again.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

Kendrix
Defender of Puppy Boy
Defender of Puppy Boy
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 5537
Joined: Jul 27, 2010
Location: Germany
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Kendrix » Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:20 pm

^This.

Even in the original series, look at the scene where he and Fuyutsuki discuss Rei's death.

Fuyutsuki offers something of an Eulogy. "She was this and this and stuff" ...Gendo keeps staring at the tube where he's presumably uploading the memories into the next clone.
He doesn't want to think about any loss taking place, he's telling himself that he can bring her back.
But he must've noticed. ReiII would never annoy random older women. Or wear red.
I mean, he couldn't bring her back.
Yeah, he made another lillith-enchanced humanoid, a perfectly functioning Third-Impact-trigger, but... it wasn't that girl who was loyal to him and thought of him as a father.
It really wasn't the gradual shift it's often portrayed/percieved as, sure, what she shared with Shinji was truer/more unconditional and she had her incecurities, but by ep 22, she'd still die for him (and this isn't blind obedience, this is proper loyalty. She doesn't want him insulted. Thinking of him makes her happy. She talks of trust. and she saw that last flash of his before her death...
And what's most telling, that last apparition of her picking up his glasses and holding them close to her heart, indicating that she never recanted her opinion.)
There's also Shinji's lapshading that Gendo isn't present in the hospital - of course, that could be hinting that he knows she doesn't need to be visited or that he saw her/spoke to her before... But him not being there may have begun to form her opinion of him as someone who's just using her and nothing more.

In episode 24, we see what looks like their usual teamwork, them silently standing together in EVA 01's cage, the implication that he sent her ... but in the same episode, we saw her question why she's alive and "for who".
So, it may have been a different sort of silence than usual (the "harmonic understanding" seen, for example, when they smile at each other in the episode 15 tube scene), and Gendo didn't notice. Or didn't want to notice.
He seems to keep that complete trust he has in her, (openly complaining to her, "put dummy plugs in all the EVas so I can controll them... but Unit Zero doesn't need one", etc...), protectively puts himself between her and Ritsuko's gun, and never even expects her betrayal.
But did he fail to notice that she wasn't the same (thus underlining Shinji's unique status), did he not care, or did he not want to see? Is it in-between? Yeah....

But it's also possible that he wasn't in the hospital in episode 23... because he didn't want to deal with that situation.

So, now imagine this happens over and over again, all these half-rotting heads Fuyutsuki showed Shinji...

We know that Gendo can't deal with loss. When he feels he can't do something, he gives up on it, he retreats. "Okay, everyone hates me, I accept that, I won't try and change that". Or his dealing with Shinji. He felt helopless to raise him, so he entirely retreated from the whole affair, only visiting Shinji on and off. Then something goes wrong at that "three years earlier" incident, and he breaks off all contact.

So if he saw those clones die over and over again, each of them less like the one he first knew, he would just stop caring after the upteenth Rei.
He would know that she'll die soon and not even bother bonding.

It's also the monkeysphere effect, there have been DOZENS in Rebuild, look at their rotten heads, how many clones could he know before they'd melt into one sea of "clone" and become a statistic?


The "retreating reaction" may also be the deal with Shinji, he flees the room suspiciously fast.
As he sees it, he probably sacrificed his beloved children to the project, killed them with his own hands(Q gives the blood splattering him during the zeruel battle a whole new spin), and Shinji being actually there, living, breathing, bawling interferes with that mindset, creates the illusion of a chance. So Gendo avoids him.

His logic probably is "It doesn't matter what happens to them because once I've triggered instrumentality, we'll all be back together and this pesky AT-Field won't keep me from explaining in a way that Shinji understands. Heck, Yui can do the explaining for me, she's actually good at that! I can fix it. I need to fix it because I already sacrificed so much"

Or, as he puts it in episode 24 "We cannot make the clock go backwards or stop it. We can only move forward".

A comparision with what drove Shinji to pull the spears is not too far off, mechanics wise, though Gendo knows a lot more about what he's actually doing and what it all costs.
He IS plotting to destroy the world, Shinji was trying to save it and horrified at the destruction.

This parallel is probably more meant to make Gendo less pitch black than it is to make Shinji look more like an asshole.
Alas poor Kaworu! I knew him well...

Darkwing
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 779
Joined: Nov 14, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Darkwing » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:02 pm

I wouldn't use what happened with Rei III from the original series here though. We know the soul is the same there. But in Rebuild it seems that they'd don't have that soul. And Rei III must have inherited something from Rei II if she left the choice to Shinji. Well that's how I interpeted it.

We can't take anything from the original series version of the impacts and Insturmentality and just assume they still apply. Although it is possible that Gendo is hoping for the magic understanding, I don't know if that's even part of his plans or not. We might not be seeing any tanging at all this time. Although Gendo hoping to use the easy way of getting Shinji to understand would be an intersting contrast to Shinji hoping he can get a Redo.

Just removing the smile during Unit-03's destruction alters things a lot. In the original it seems like at best he's happy the dummy plug works so well, and at worse is enjoying tourturing his son.

Of course another big thing is where is the soul of Rei 2.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

Na7e
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 795
Joined: Dec 08, 2011
Location: New York
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Na7e » Sun Dec 16, 2012 10:06 pm

View Original PostDarkwing wrote:Of course another big thing is where is the soul of Rei 2.


Kozo Fuyutsuki wrote:The Rei you know is one of Yui-kun's clones. She is preserved in Eva-01, the same as your mother.

Darkwing
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 779
Joined: Nov 14, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Darkwing » Tue Dec 18, 2012 5:31 pm

Okay so the location of Rei 2's soul is known. Although the final fate is up in the air.

As has been said. Gendo is sacrificing everything for his dream. But he's not just sacrificing himself is he? He's sacrificing Rei, and he's sacrificing Shinji. I mean look what his plans have done to Shinji. Made Shinji. Shinji is never going to have a normal life. He'll be lucky to not be the most hated person ever, and he may well lose everything. Every singe person killed in 3rd impact? Sacrificed to Gendo and Seele's plans. "To what profit is it for a man if he gains the whole world, but loses his own soul in the process?" Well Gendo hasn't just put his own soul on the table. He's put Shinji's, and possibly Rei's on too. And here's the sad part. Good chance he won't suceed in his goals. That his last thoughts are again going to be asking for Shinji's forgiveness. But you know what? Gendo's feeling sorry last second won't fix a damn thing.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

sum_exsanguis
Adam
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 78
Joined: May 01, 2012
Location: Baltimore
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby sum_exsanguis » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:33 pm

is the Keel visor symbolic of him taking over Seele, showing that he has lost his body (they do say he lost everything inclusing his soul), or both?
No weapon against us shall prosper

driftking18594
Bridge Bunny
Bridge Bunny
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sep 26, 2011
Location: NERV Irish Branch
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby driftking18594 » Thu Jan 24, 2013 4:35 pm

Well, some say that eyes are windows into one's soul. Perhaps Anno heard about that, but that would raise questions about Keel.

sum_exsanguis
Adam
User avatar
Age: 32
Posts: 78
Joined: May 01, 2012
Location: Baltimore
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby sum_exsanguis » Thu Jan 24, 2013 6:27 pm

Thats very true I did not think of it that way
No weapon against us shall prosper

slothen
First Ancestral Sloth
First Ancestral Sloth
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 2558
Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Gender: Male

Re: [SPOILERS] Gendo in 3.0 and beyond

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby slothen » Tue Jan 29, 2013 12:55 pm

View Original Postdriftking18594 wrote:One of the many things which strikes me as odd about Q is what has happened to Gendo's Scenario. After 2.0, I thought that the last thing Gendo would want for his scenario would be a broken Shinji - there would be a chance he would decide "everybody should just die" during the next Impact.


darkwing wrote:Well after going though the translation thread I think I've figured out part of Gendo's plan. He's trying to get Shinji as fixated on Rei as he is on Yui.


This would be a departure from the original series. In the original series, Shinji gets in control of 3I by accident. This would imply that rebuild Gendo is grooming his son psychologically for his plan, rather than only using him to destroy angels and letting Shinji's sanity look after itself.
God, Apparently you all have been discussing Q since November. Catching up on the discussion is harrowing.

MAL Profile

pwhodges
A Lilin in Wonderland
A Lilin in Wonderland
User avatar
Age: 74
Posts: 10670
Joined: Nov 18, 2012
Location: Oxford, UK
Contact:

Re: [SPOILERS] Gendo in 3.0 and beyond

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby pwhodges » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:17 pm

View Original Postslothen wrote:This would imply that rebuild Gendo is grooming his son psychologically for his plan,

As he pretty much says at the end of 2.0 (with respect to Shinji and Rei).
"Being human, having your health; that's what's important." (from: Magical Shopping Arcade Abenobashi )
"As long as we're all living, and as long as we're all having fun, that should do it, right?" (from: The Eccentric Family )
Avatar: The end of the journey (details); Past avatars.
Before 3.0+1.0 there was Afterwards... my post-Q Evangelion fanfic (discussion)

slothen
First Ancestral Sloth
First Ancestral Sloth
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 2558
Joined: Sep 12, 2006
Location: Indianapolis
Gender: Male

Re: [SPOILERS] Gendo in 3.0 and beyond

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby slothen » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:27 pm

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:As he pretty much says at the end of 2.0 (with respect to Shinji and Rei).


Oh right. Yeah. :headdesk:

At least its worth noting that this is a departure from the original series.
God, Apparently you all have been discussing Q since November. Catching up on the discussion is harrowing.

MAL Profile

Darkwing
Bardiel
Bardiel
User avatar
Age: 40
Posts: 779
Joined: Nov 14, 2012
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Darkwing » Tue Jan 29, 2013 3:00 pm

If that's Gendo's plan he's doing a wonderful job. *sarcasm*
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

Shinoyami65
Seed of Life
Seed of Life
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 10:10 am

View Original PostDarkwing wrote:If that's Gendo's plan he's doing a wonderful job. *sarcasm*


I wonder what Gendo's plan really is... He must have a reason for waiting to kill Seele for so long... Considering that it was Nerv/Seele that launched Shinji into space in the first place, they must have a very good reason for wanting the timeskip to occur. Gendo also doesn't seem very sad that the world was devastated by Third and Fourth Impact, so evidently he's still stuck on "save Yui and bugger the world". His plan also doesn't seem to involve Fourth Impact, which was critical for Seele's plan (whatever that was...now we'll probably never know). He'll probably try and pull something with Final Impact. And fail too, probably.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

driftking18594
Bridge Bunny
Bridge Bunny
User avatar
Age: 26
Posts: 1652
Joined: Sep 26, 2011
Location: NERV Irish Branch
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby driftking18594 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:33 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote:I wonder what Gendo's plan really is... He must have a reason for waiting to kill Seele for so long... Considering that it was Nerv/Seele that launched Shinji into space in the first place, they must have a very good reason for wanting the timeskip to occur.


Do you have any proof of this?

Shinoyami65
Seed of Life
Seed of Life
User avatar
Age: 23
Posts: 3926
Joined: Jul 26, 2012
Location: Vinculum Gate
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Shinoyami65 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 5:24 pm

View Original Postdriftking18594 wrote:Do you have any proof of this?


The presence of the updated Nerv logo on the Nemesis Series guarding Shinji in space.
E̱͡v͈̙e͔̰̳͙r̞͍y͏̱̲̭͎̪ṱ͙̣̗̱͠h̰̰i͙n̶̮̟̳͍͍̫͓g̩ ̠͈en̶̖̹̪d̸̙̦͙̜͕͍̞s̸̰.̳̙̺̟̻̀

I always thought I might be bad
Now I know that it's true
Because I think you're so good
And I'm nothing like you

moonwolf2024
Armisael
Armisael
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 917
Joined: Dec 12, 2012
Location: Deep Space, FL
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby moonwolf2024 » Wed Jan 30, 2013 7:56 pm

Well, whatever his true intentions may be, he has no problem sacrificing the world or his son to reach those goals. Everyone is a pawn.
Maybe if you shut up and stop over analyzing everything you just might get it........


Return to “Rebuild of Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests