Misato's relationship with Shinji in 3.0

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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ultrassjstuart
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Postby ultrassjstuart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:44 pm

Still not sure why her pendant was missing. Though knowing EVA I'm strongly worried that Misato may have killed Kaji in the intervening time period for whatever reason (that may explain the pendant's loss since Kaji reminded Misato of her father and her father gave her the pendant before dying) and also lead to her gaining a more icy demeanor.

Even Mari says at one point that the Captain's motto is 'human life is expendable, only the mission is important'

A far cry from when she'd used to say 'salvaging the pilot is our top priority!'

Not that I'm saying Misato has become cold and heartless, I'm just saying like Gendo she may have become damaged and that maybe bringing Shinji back might help to restore her old self, hence why her attitude toward him very slowly shifts throughout the film.

BTW the icy glare line Misato gives him at the start in my translation is 'Ikari Shinji...You'll never do anything again...'

Which i found a lot more chilling.
Last edited by ultrassjstuart on Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby bladerj » Thu Jan 17, 2013 5:45 pm

View Original Postultrassjstuart wrote:
Oddly this all seems to be part of Gendo's plan as he's heard saying that 'Captain Katsuragi is still acting within expectations'
Anyone think maybe Ritsuko could be a spy, Still fawning over Gendo?

And as for going right back to Wille (sorry i still think it's a dumb name) Asuka says they're 'going to where the lilin are' which doesnt neccesarily mean wille. Also Asuka was last seen self-destructing Unit-02 and the Wunder is seen flying off. Who knows if they even know if Asuka, Rei and Shinji are alive...


Every ejector seat and life boats carry a comm distress, surely the entry plug has one too, as can be seen when mari ejects eva 05,they know.

and yah, i called ritsuko being a plant, but i'm sure it will turn out to be one of the bunnies.
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Postby CJD » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:04 pm

View Original PostRei IV wrote:So much for the claims by certain folks of her being a evil, heartless bitch.


In our defense, those claims were originally made before we had any of the camrips or even the audio rip to translate from. All we knew was that "Everyone hates Shinji and Misato puts a bomb around his neck. Oh, but she hesitates to detonate it."

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Postby ultrassjstuart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:16 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:In our defense, those claims were originally made before we had any of the camrips or even the audio rip to translate from. All we knew was that "Everyone hates Shinji and Misato puts a bomb around his neck. Oh, but she hesitates to detonate it."


I concur. Out of context, when I first read the early spoilers back in November, I really did facepalm myself, thinking 'oh god, Anno's trolled us again (though I always saw EOE and everyone dying as his revenge against the death threats so i forgive him that), but after watching it...I dunno, you finally see the subtleties of the interactions that you really dont get from cold recaps and synopsis.

(Though in my translation, Sakura's last line to Shinji asking him to not pilot EVA is becase she 'really wants him to be able to forgive her' I wonder if she actually feels indebted to him and sort of idolises him in some way and feels responsible for what's happened. Plus, we've never had it confirmed that Toji or Kensuke is actually dead)

I'm witholding all judgement until 4.0, but on the plus side, Shinji seems more responsive than in EoE, at least he's walking under his own power, even if he is being lead by the hand and out of it. The ending of 2.0 surprised us, god knows 3.0 shocked the hell out of us (this board is proof of that), so I'm hopeful 4.0 will turn things in a direction none of us could've possibly thought of.

I can only pray Anno is having a good day, the sun is shining, he had a good night's sleep, and he finally chooses to take pity on those characters he created so long ago...


Oh my god... I just thogught...What happened to Pen-Pen?!?!

No wonder Misato's all pissed off!
Last edited by ultrassjstuart on Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:21 pm

Misato's pendant wouldn't be visible given the nature of her uniform at the moment. I have no doubt that it's there, or if it isn't I'm betting she laid it to rest with Kaji. If he's gone.

Asuka is the one who talked about prioritizing the mission over one's life, and as translated she said 'it's a captains motto, isn't it?'. The general sense of the word, not a specific one. But more to the point, let's not forget Asuka is/was a Captain herself. She's speaking captain to captain, about something they're both well aware. It's cool. So let's not get ahead of ourselves with her line there.

Also about Ritsuko being a spy, or in cahoots with Gendo still, don't forget that Ritsuko was telling Misato to pull the trigger on the DSS Choker as Shinji escaped; and don't forget that the device really did work, in the end, on Kaworu. If Ritsuko was a spy, then I can't fathom the device actually working; she'd have made it a dud. She'd had to have, because I cannot wrap my mind around the notion of Gendo being a-okay with Shinji just dying in the middle of all his plans.
Last edited by Seele00TextOnly on Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ultrassjstuart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:24 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:Misato's pendant wouldn't be visible given the nature of her uniform at the moment. I have no doubt that it's there, or if it isn't I'm betting she laid it to rest with Kaji. If he's gone.

Asuka is the one who talked about prioritizing the mission over one's life, and as translated she said 'it's a captains motive, isn't it?'. The general sense of the word, not a specific one. But more to the point, let's not forget Asuka is/was a Captain herself. She's speaking captain to captain, about something they're both well aware. It's cool. So let's not get ahead of ourselves with her line there.

Also about Ritsuko being a spy, or in cahoots with Gendo still, don't forget that Ritsuko was telling Misato to pull the trigger on the DSS Choker as Shinji escaped; and don't forget that the device really did work, in the end, on Kaworu. If Ritsuko was a spy, then I can't fathom the device actually working; she'd have made it a dud. She'd had to have, because I cannot wrap my mind around the notion of Gendo being a-okay with Shinji just dying in the middle of all his plans.


From what I saw, Misato was never seen pulling the trigger and didnt even have it on her. From my understanding it began it's activation when Kaworu revealed himself as the Trigger and the 13th Angel. It started glowing on it's own, the segments sort of then spread out and....Kaworu dun 'splodid. I must go with the 'automated angel detection detonation' theory. After all, there was no guarentee Misato would be able to reach the remote if Shinji suddenly went all one winged Angel, heck all he'd have to do was kill her and it would be rendered useless since it was locked to her password, hence it had to have an automated feature.
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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:27 pm

You might want to watch again, she was brandishing the trigger to Shinji as he was leaving, and held it in the air with her thumb at the ready as he left. She couldn't bring herself to do it, yes, but Ritsuko was telling her she should while there was still time. The point of my comment was that I don't think Ritsuko being a spy or in cahoots with Gendo could hold any water in light of the things she said and the things that happened. The point is the thing was armed, worked, and that Ritsuko said to use it. I'm not sure what doesn't flow there regarding taking Ritsuko at her word.
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Postby bladerj » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:28 pm

View Original Postultrassjstuart wrote:Oh my god... I just thogught...What happened to Pen-Pen?!?!

No wonder Misato's all pissed off!


he is for whatever reason in the same group as toji ,hikari, and kensuke leaving the school grounds, in the tv series Asuka asks hikari to take care of pen pen, maybe in nme it's the same.
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Postby ultrassjstuart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:34 pm

View Original PostSeele00TextOnly wrote:You might want to watch again, she was brandishing the trigger to Shinji as he was leaving, and held it in the air with her thumb at the ready as he left. She couldn't bring herself to do it, yes, but Ritsuko was telling her she should while there was still time. The point of my comment was that I don't think Ritsuko being a spy or in cahoots with Gendo could hold any water in light of the things she said and the things that happened. The point is the thing was armed, worked, and that Ritsuko said to use it. I'm not sure what doesn't flow there regarding taking Ritsuko at her word.


I'm not talking about when Shinji was leaving, I'm talking about when Kaworu's head went pop. Misato wasn't seen brandishing it there at all. I'm just saying that it HAD to have an automated feature on the grounds that if only Misato could detonate it then if something happened to her or to stop her reaching the controller then they'd all be screwed.

And no, I don't think Misato wrote her password down or told it to anyone, if you ask me that's another subtle way of showing she still cared: she didnt want Shinji's life in anyone's hands but her's.

My point is that Misato didn't detonate the collar round Kaworu's neck assuming it to be Shinji. It simply went off on it's own as it was designed to do.
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Postby Rei IV » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:37 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:In our defense, those claims were originally made before we had any of the camrips or even the audio rip to translate from. All we knew was that "Everyone hates Shinji and Misato puts a bomb around his neck. Oh, but she hesitates to detonate it."

Well, in my defense, I'm actually referring to those who keep repeating the "Misato is a bitch" meme AFTER the fact and continue spread misinformation. This includes some people who've seen the movie and still go on with their exaggerations of the mistreatment of Shinji at hands of Misato and everyone else at WILLE.

;)

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Postby esselfortium » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:43 pm

View Original Postultrassjstuart wrote:I'm not talking about when Shinji was leaving, I'm talking about when Kaworu's head went pop. Misato wasn't seen brandishing it there at all. I'm just saying that it HAD to have an automated feature on the grounds that if only Misato could detonate it then if something happened to her or to stop her reaching the controller then they'd all be screwed.

And no, I don't think Misato wrote her password down or told it to anyone, if you ask me that's another subtle way of showing she still cared: she didnt want Shinji's life in anyone's hands but her's.

My point is that Misato didn't detonate the collar round Kaworu's neck assuming it to be Shinji. It simply went off on it's own as it was designed to do.

That's... exactly what Seele00TextOnly just said, yes.

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Postby ultrassjstuart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:48 pm

I thought he was misinterpreting what i said to assume I was talking about Misato not holding the controller during the escape scene (which she was) as opposed to the battle scene at the end (when she wasn't holding it). I was merely saying Misato was not the one who detonated the collar around Kaworu's neck intentionally. (Implying that she pulled the trigger thinking she was killing Shinji)

Oh, and I wasn't saying there's onscreen evidence to say Ritsuko is full on spying on Wille and feeding back to Gendo, I just wondered if anyone thought she might still have allegiance to Gendo (or Ritsuko's usual messed up unresolved feelings) considering they were lovers in NGE and if any of that will be carried over this time.
Last edited by ultrassjstuart on Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Seele00TextOnly » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:52 pm

View Original Postultrassjstuart wrote:I thought he was misinterpreting what i said to assume Misato was the one who detonated the collar around Kaworu's neck intentionally. (Implying that she pulled the trigger thinking she was killing Shinji)
I was mostly responding to the general flow of the last several comments, especially as things relate to Misato's character. 'Oh she doesn't care about a pilot's life anymore' and so forth, thanks to miss-attributing an Asuka quote to Mari. And the notion that since we don't see her pendant she must have let it go in a symbolic change-of-heart manner or something instead of, y'know, having a fully fastened officers jacket for the whole movie.

Oh, and I wasn't saying there's onscreen evidence to say Ritsuko is full on spying on Wille and feeding back to Gendo, I just wondered if anyone thought she had allegiance still with Gendo considering they were lovers in NGE and if any of that will be carried over this time.
Well, here then I was responding to you because I'm saying there's onscreen evidence to say she ISN'T spying on Wille and feeding back to Gendo, and that she couldn't possibly be considering the logic of the Choker actually working and her advice earlier in the movie.

This isn't complicated, I'm trying to be very clear about it all...
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Postby Legendary » Thu Jan 17, 2013 6:56 pm

It's pretty obvious that the real Nerv spy is Misato anyway. She only betrayed Nerv in the show because she wasn't in on the gig until Kaji showed her everything, but in this universe she even knew about Lilith from day one so she clearly rationalized away all of the issues associated with what Nerv has done. Her leading Wille is a long-term plan to keep humanity occupied while Nerv and Seele finish the touches on... I guess 5I now? Fuck Shinji if you're going to kill everyone at least go EoE on them and actually kill everyone.

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Postby ultrassjstuart » Thu Jan 17, 2013 7:34 pm

Back on topic though. Was Misato's line when she all out glared at Shinji after he asks what he's supposed to do if not pilot Unit-01 really 'Ikari Shinji...You'll never do anything again'

That's what my sub has it as and it just seems so chilling considering they've collared him and called him useless it's like saying he's now condemned as a prisoner to do nothing forever. I've read the translation is different elsewhere so what did you have it as?

There's also confusion about Sakura's line to Shinji. Some have it as 'I really want to be able to forgive you', whilst most others have it as 'I really want you to be able to forgive me,' which throws a completely different inflection on the whole thing. One implies Toji lived, the other that he died. Neither is specified though her attitude towards him makes me think he lived and despite what the survivors said about Shinji, she probably grew up with Toji saying a lot different (i.e. saying how great a guy he was for what he did etc.) I'm not taking the fact Shinji was given Toji's school shirt as an implication of his death considering he'd have to have evacuated and most of his stuff was probably left behind in the ruins of Tokyo-3 (No reason to think they peeled it off his dead corpse, especially considering he never wore the damned thing in the first place!)
Last edited by ultrassjstuart on Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Legendary » Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:00 pm

The Misato line has been retranslated because in context she wasn't telling Shinji she was going to kill him.

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Postby ultrassjstuart » Fri Jan 18, 2013 4:33 pm

Well if noone's sure which version of Misato's line is right, I do wonder if Sakura really did say 'I really want you to be able to forgive me'

Makes me wonder if she's a plant for NERV. Think: How did Kaworu know how to remove the choker with a few button presses as if he'd done it a million times before, just how did Rei know what section of the Wunder Shinji was in, and just where did NERV one of Toji's old shirts from?

Think Gendo might be holding something over lil' Sakura's head?


And yes, this is a tangent, but I thought someone else might have noticed it.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:03 pm

Why the devil is everyone so enamored with the idea of someone being a plant for Nerv? Did someone say something about it in an interview or something?
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Postby ultrassjstuart » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:21 pm

No, but it's EVA. There's always someone backstabbing and working both sides...
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Jan 18, 2013 5:51 pm

View Original Postultrassjstuart wrote:No, but it's EVA. There's always someone backstabbing and working both sides...


Not really. Apart from Kaji no one really did anything of the sort in NGE, and we can't even take that as a given in NME. Past that it'd be nice to have some evidence before we start in with the wild speculations.
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The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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