3.0 Film Reaction Thread

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby SEELE-01 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:16 am

View Original PostJayfive wrote:You only see her [Mari] in her Eva. Judging by all those drink bottles she lives in there


Maid (knocking on the Entry Plug's door): "Miss Makinami, at least come out so what we can clean inside!!"
Mari: "Neveeer!!"


Also, joke aside, so, the shirt Shinji found was Touji's?
Now it makes sense!

So, my guess is that
SPOILER: Show
only those inside Nerv HQ or at least a decent shelter survived 3I, that includes Shinji's class and the penguin...
And when Asuka says "let's go where the Lilin are" She means some Gurren Lagann-style survivor colony were we find the last o human race and were Shinji will have it's tear/puch-in-the-face filled reunion with those whose life he screwed and somehow will learn "hope"...
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Postby AilesGrises » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:38 am

View Original PostGuy Nacks wrote:Or how Kaworu magically removed Shinji's collar....and why did he have to put it on himself instead of just throwing it the trash?


I think Kaworu is being pretty explicit about it - that is in essence, Shinji's burden (and his punishment). He (Shinji) MUST carry that burden. Someone has to. Throwing it in the garbage would've been the same as sheltering Shinji in a free (as in "no cost") but flawed cocoon, which is not only against what Kaworu desires for him, but also against one of the main themes of Eva's narrative.

Kaworu didn't tell him "I will offer you a lame get out of jail free card", but that he'd share the load and carry the burden with him from that point on. Which he does, since it is not only Kaworu that dies because of that collar. This is a very, very old motif in literature. Think about the story of Damon and Pythias, for example.

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Postby SpearofLonginus » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:15 am

View Original PostMaya Ibuki wrote:Anno might be trying to place us in Shinji's shoes - it has been fourteen years, and we as the viewers do not understand everything. Perhaps it's intentional?


You made me have hope again by stating this. I have not seen the film but the lack of character development and downright wierd things they added (the ship, the new characters) really turn me off from this film.. plan to watch it soon, though, so perhaps I'll have a better opinion.

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Postby hui43210 » Sat Jan 12, 2013 11:29 am

This is definitely the way I'm looking at it. There is so much more I'd like to know and see in this new world, but i will only know as much as Shinji and enjoy the ride with him. Its kinda brilliant in a way.
Is the 3.0 spoiler policy gone?.... Cool, then I'm nominating myself as EvaGeeks 1# Sakura Suzuhara fan/nerd.

I mean, predictability is the central attraction and the narrative hook that we've all come to expect from the Evangelion franchise. How come Anno can't realize this? Twice? - FreakyFilmFan4ever

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Postby SaVaGe » Sat Jan 12, 2013 1:35 pm

Well.

Things I liked:
1. Visuals
2. Fuyutsuki.
3. Asuka, more or less.
4. Kaworu in comparison to his NGE counterpart. He was less passive, more active.

Things I did not like:
1. The brevity of it all. Relative to the prior movies, I feel like barely anything happened at all. You could sum the movie up ridiculously easily. It's practically episode 24 with a little extra stuff in between.
2. Damn near every character not listed above. I understand why everyone would hate Shinji. I would hate Shinji. But the complete and total lack of empathy from the likes of Misato and others that knew Shinji prior to 3I drives me insane. Misato has every right to hate Shinji for initiating 3I, but the least she could do, ANYBODY could do, is fucking explain to the child WHY everyone hates him. Especially since Misato knows how fragile Shinji is emotionally. I thought Sakura would have the potential to empathize with Shinji, let him in on what happened; however, in the end, she felt like she was just a plot device to show that 14 years had passed.
3. The Rebuild Shinji loop is worse than the original: Shinji does nothing. Shinji does nothing. Shinji follows orders. Shinji finally gets assertive and acts on his own. Shinji destroys the planet as a result. It's too much.
4. Rei. Oh God, Rei. That was too much. She was 100% mindless. She was literally there just to show Shinji that he started 3I for nothing. IT broke my heart really, cause I loved Rei in 2.0.
5. This whole, omniscient Gendo is getting really annoying. Literally everything goes according to his plan. Every last thing. At least he got his comeuppance in EoE. I hope Final does that. But I doubt it.
6. And of course, the unexplained.

In the end, the entire movie felt like a device to dig Shinji deeper and deeper into a hole, just like the original. I thought Rebuild would be different. That was my fault. This was to be expected. I didn't hate the movie though.
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Postby CJD » Sat Jan 12, 2013 5:54 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:But that point was considered "done" after 2.0, that's one of the thinks I like about Q, that Anno has now finished his old speeches in more direct format, and moved to put new lego bricks on the finished monument.


But 3.0 doesn't add new lego bricks onto the monument, it shatters it with a wrecking ball.

The message is, "Go forward even if you could screw up, even if you could suffer as a result."


Right, but there's still supposed to be a net gain. You can't tell me to "Go forward and risk pain" and then show me a montage of pain. The message falls flat. It's like a guy with no arms representing the local saw mill at a job fair. Sorry dude but I think I'll go talk to the guy from accounting instead. Even if I hate the job better that than losing my fucking arms.

Here's the ultimate question: Was Shinji's life better before he met Misato and tried to live a "healthy" life?

The answer to that is a resounding yes. To a lesser extent you can also ask "Was the world better off?" and that's a resounding yes, too.

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Postby Reichu » Sat Jan 12, 2013 6:55 pm

As obvious as this is, I'm going to say it anyway: The last movie is needed to put the "lessons" of the previous three into proper context.

Some of the conversation in here might be better off being siphoned into the dedicated threads, if possible.

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Postby Darkwing » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:42 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:As obvious as this is, I'm going to say it anyway: The last movie is needed to put the "lessons" of the previous three into proper context.



This. And even then we are not going to be all magically going "aha I understand now". It took me years to understand original flavor Eva. And really I doubt everyone is going to be in agreement on opinions. Not everyone interprets things the same way, and I doubt Rebuild will be any different.
I'm not sure what I feel about Eva anymore, but I'm pretty sure I don't actually enjoy the series anymore.

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Postby sedemihcrA » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:06 am

People who are expecting the mysteries to resolve must not remember the experience of watching the original very clearly. Within the TV series, the plot devolves into incomprehensibility rather rapidly and is not adequately explained even by the conclusion. Instead there are a bunch of highly fragmented clues which many of us have spent years analyzing and trying to wrap our heads around. Perhaps those coming later to the series experienced this complexity differently as they were able to plug in to a fandom that had already matured in solving these riddles, but let me quote Hiroki Azuma (who wrote, in my opinion, the greatest essay ever on Eva) on this subject:

"The last half of "Evangelion" gradually loses the co-ordination with the complicated foreshadowing that was installed in the first half and loses the science-fictional, simulational reasonableness of the compostion of the fictional world. (Which is natural given by the change of direction) However, it doesn't mean that the structure became careless. Instead a density and strange necessity arises. For example in episode #22 there is the unfolding of an incomprehensible story as Eva brings down the angel on a satellite orbit only by the throw of a special spear. A rational explanation is not even provided inside the story. But certainly the unfolding of the story possesses a certain inevitability with the flow of the scenes. That "inevitablity" which exists especially independent from the narrative strategy is the true worth of the last half of "Evangelion." That inevitability allows for the dissemination of despair and tension. It's difficult to ask where it comes from. Since I only want to pay close attention to this, we can connect the appearance of this inevitablity with the process of collapse and rebirth of the genre of anime. In this period of ANNO's he is dealing with some univeral problems."

--Anime, or Something Like It: Neon Genesis Evangelion

I admitted in my previous post that I had serious doubts as to the direction of the movies because Anno played a very clever trick. He took the dramatic substance of the original and essentially reused to while keeping the tone within the lighter half of the original series. He completely deflated its darkness, creating a happy action movie in which the protagonist appears to succeed.

Now, it seems inevitable that the descent arc begins with this movie, hence its darker tone and near total incomprehensibility. I don't know that it succeeds, but it seems to be mirroring the overall structure of the series quite closely.
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Postby slothen » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:23 am

VERY well said. However, I stand by my criticisms, as they are based on a lack of character development and basic exposition, rather than frustration at this new mythology being incomprehensible. It is incomprehensible, and I expect nothing less. I'm not complaining about Shogouki being turned into a flying boat, or evangelions that require two pilots, or Asuka's glowing eyepatch or various things that I don't understand now that I might possibly understand given 10 years of study and Reichu's drug-induced insights.

EDIT: WTF, is double posting formally disabled? I'm trying to quote the above poster and copy-paste an edit into this post, but the reply and quote buttons are gone...

2nd Edit: It's pretty obvious that Anno is placing the viewer in Shinji's shoes. Otherwise there would be a Wille scene while Shinji is at NERV.
God, Apparently you all have been discussing Q since November. Catching up on the discussion is harrowing.

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Postby Nuclear Lunchbox » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:46 am

Well, my rants about how brutally 3.0 mind-raped me are already posted everywhere else, so no need for me to repeat them here. Anyway, time for my impressions of Evangelion: Q!

Visuals

The visuals were honest-to-god some of the most beautiful animation that I've ever seen. The camera is actually dynamic, something that I rarely see in animated films. The CG, for the most part, was flawless; I had some minor peeves with the animation on Wunder AAA, but that was about it. On the whole, this movie provided me with some serious eye candy.

Sound

I'm going to go with amazing for this one. Shiro Sagisu has done it again; he's created something so poignant that I cried upon listening to it. It was beautiful. I liked the reintroduction of Beethoven's 9th to this movie. I missed it.

Plot

Oh, lordy. Here's where I start criticizing this.

The plot in this movie was horrific. There was pretty only enough plot to get Shinji to Kaworu, and from there to Fourth Impact. Granted, this movie is part of a larger series, and therefore doesn't need a great plot, but really, Khara? There could have at least been some character development here. The only thing that was really established in this movie was that Shinji nearly killed everybody, and then he did the exact same thing again. Terrible, terrible plot. I'm still going to throw down the cash for this one, though.

Everything else

On the whole, this movie was amazing. I'm probably going to watch this several more times before I even get close to understanding it.

This is my first impression of the movie, written after I had a few hours to recover from the mindfuckery. I'll submit something more detailed later.

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Postby SEELE-01 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:48 am

View Original Postslothen wrote:Otherwise there would be a Wille scene while Shinji is at NERV.


Aha!!!
I knew something like that was missing!
A scene of Misato and Ritsuko explaining it all with a bit of (new) character development...

But indeed, the lack of that scene does play a role on being on Shinji's ignorant shoes...
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Postby Reichu » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:10 am

View Original Postslothen wrote:Reichu's drug-induced insights.

Hey now, the only drugs I take are ones that make my brain less interesting. If you're thinking of the Revelations Incident, I still have no idea what caused that. It could have been a spontaneous manifestation of adult-onset bipolar, but that's just a guess.

WTF, is double posting formally disabled?

Here? Yes. Can't have the newcomers making three one-sentence posts in a row, can we?

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Postby slothen » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:14 am

Hey, you said the revelations incident was caused by drugs. You did. That's exactly what I'm referring to. I think the first thread I ever read after registering in 2006 was the K4 theory. Which I thought was awesome.
God, Apparently you all have been discussing Q since November. Catching up on the discussion is harrowing.

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Postby elemileTLDR » Sun Jan 13, 2013 2:59 am

Good Lord. You guys didn't lie: this was (joyfully) painful to watch.

Having the world abandoned you, left behind as they all moved on; still unable to (understand and thus) do anything right, ever, if such pretension still holds meaning at all; heck: even the piano thing came right on time. Once again, all these years later (in both virtual and real time), Eva fits like a damned glove.

And now it's gonna be yet another 2 year wait, I presume, plus the ages it takes us to put it together; all as we keep on locked in here, growing old, regardless...

*SIGH*

What was I even thinking when I got involved on this?... Oh yeah, I remember.
Last edited by elemileTLDR on Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:48 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:21 am

View Original Postslothen wrote:Hey, you said the revelations incident was caused by drugs. You did.

I remember OMF saying this, but if I ever did, I retconned it out of my memory and require a link to my own incriminating words, to put this to rest once and for all!

View Original PostelemileTLDR wrote:What was I even thinking when I got involved on this?... Oh yeah, I remember.

What were you thinking? :devil:

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Postby elemileTLDR » Sun Jan 13, 2013 3:44 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:What were you thinking? :devil:


That I could get to understand myself through it, and perhaps be finally able to move on with my life...
Dumb, wasn't it?

Anyway: drugs tell no truth about anything, Reichu. Drugs' deliveries are fiction themselves, which need of semiotical analysis as well. There's no available world out there, beyond the signified (thus artificial/fake) inner worlds we can build. So keep fanwanking. I'll celebrate it.
Last edited by elemileTLDR on Thu Mar 28, 2013 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Maya Ibuki » Sun Jan 13, 2013 4:44 am

I'm hoping that with the home video release, perhaps we'll get more of a perspective of the film.

The original 3.0 trailer was very intriguing - the whole Kaji with a gun, the private conference between Mari and *blank*, and what I'm assuming is Rei II with her other clones. There's also the mention of the NERV personnel in confinement.

Perhaps this footage will be added somehow into the home video release - maybe as an extra, or even 4.0 as a flashback - to explain what happens during the 14 year gap - just an omega fanwank.

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Postby Knuckles » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:38 am

View Original PostsedemihcrA wrote:Now, it seems inevitable that the descent arc begins with this movie, hence its darker tone and near total incomprehensibility. I don't know that it succeeds...


It doesn't. At least not in a similar way. It's darker because it's literally a post-apocalyptic world and no one is telling Shinji anything, which didnt create tension in the same way the original series did.

View Original PostNuclear Lunchbox wrote:On the whole, this movie was amazing. I'm probably going to watch this several more times before I even get close to understanding it.

This is my first impression of the movie, written after I had a few hours to recover from the mindfuckery. I'll submit something more detailed later.


I honestly don't understand this, so consider this a general question for anyone to answer: what is this "mindfuck" everyone keeps referring to? What was there in this movie that was so hard to understand? There was a timeskip, a bunch of shit happened that we're probably never going to be told about, but other than that what was so confusing that you need to watch more than once to wrap your head around? This movie is no EoE.

I'm also not getting the whole 'this movie affected me so badly I can't sleep' thing. If there's one thing this movie was not, it's emotional. It tried to be, but the script was so badly written that I have a hard time believing anyone cried at the end when Kaworu died.
"It doesn't matter. This is all I need.."
"Rei is genetically his mom, socially his friend/coworker/classmate, legally his sister, spiritually the progenitor of the entire 'normal' biosphere, physically a mass of matter that ought not be, and technically (depending on which Rei we're talking about) also some form of the risen dead.

...and I still like Shinji/Rei."

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Postby Reichu » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:45 am

View Original PostKnuckles wrote:what was so confusing that you need to watch more than once to wrap your head around?

Dunno if you were around when spoilers were first leaking in, but people literally had no idea what they had just seen. The screen was bombarded with unexpected developments, frenetic and confusingly edited action sequences, and bizarre visual images. A lot of the people reporting in couldn't understand the dialogue in part or in whole. But never mind that: even native Japanese speakers were seeing the movie second and third times to figure out what the hell the deal was.

If you've had the benefit of working with a translated script and accumulated spoiler data -- not to mention by this point you've also got a camrip you can readily pause and skip around in (as opposed to having the images fly by in front of your eyes, no pauses allowed; if you want to see them again, you have to wait and pay for another viewing, then hope you catch what you missed before) -- easy to ask what's so confusing, eh?


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