Reichu wrote:(These are speculated to be the same entities that are fought in the Final preview, as well; do you remember if those have horns, Blue?)

The things in the preview actually looked kind of dark and non-descript to me, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have horns.

Blue Monday wrote:The things in the preview actually looked kind of dark and non-descript to me, but I'm pretty sure they didn't have horns.

I've heard them described as green, Mark.06-looking things, but getting more details than that has been pretty hard.

I do recall the green, I actually edited that out of the previous post because I'm wasn't too sure.

Shit is getting awful hard to remember, haha.

Im not sure if this is the correct place to say this, but, well, apologizes in advance if it isnt.

Has anyone noticed that the mysterious Evangelion 13, as Reichu noted before, is called DAI-Juusangouki, the Dai commonly used with the Angel's ordinal numbers?

Considering that, it seems like a big coincidence that Kaworu was demoted to the 13th Angel. Could there be a connection?

Alpha: I agree that there's a strong implied connection. If both being "ordinal 13" wasn't enough, Kaworu becoming the 13th Angel appears to be what triggers Eva-13's Awakening.

Reichu wrote:Once Kaworu is "cast down" to the 13th Angel, some weird stuff starts happening...

- Eva-13's pylons pop off
- Long, red, pylon-like appendages start growing in their place
- (Cut away to Seele's Farewell)
- Its eyes swell up and its jaws open
- The red parts of the armor start to glow
- The 12th Angel / Lilith Goo conglomeration is concentrated into the Eva's open mouth.
- The Eva bites down (cue rainbow)...
- ...and immediately pseudo-evolves/Awakens into a Radiant Giant.

About this 'horn' stuff..........it may be something symbolical............
Lilith is not mentioned in the Bible but she was often depicted as a demon in the Middle Ages, and she was often depicted as having a 'third eye', which is actually a female vagina on her forehead. The Unicorn, on the other hand, has a horn growing out of its forehead, which symbolizes the male penis, corresponding with Lilith.
In 2.0, when unit 01 entered the 'awakened' state, the horn on its head became a 'third eye'....................
However, Mark.06, Mark.09 and Unit 13, the suspected surviving Adams, all have a horn and of the four Adams, only one seemed to possess a third eye.............And correct me if I am wrong, but Unit 13 also did not have a third eye in its awakened state in 3.0, so it just might be coincidence.

ok remember in 2.0 where you see 4 "adams" well in 3.0 it is said that eva unit 13 is one the adams so i'm assuming that eva units 10, 11, 12, are the other adams. please tell me what you think.

This has been brought up in a number of different threads but there's some good stuff in this one:
http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13603/SPOILERS-Eva-Unit-Formats-and-Name-Meaning-Discussion/

I guess the major contenders for the four Adams re-purposed are Unit-01 (maybe), Mark.06, Mark.09 and Evangelion 13. Very interesting that all four suspects are horned and painted purple/blue-ish [Mark.09's awakened form has a horn too but its exact colour is hard to attain.]

Thismay seem like an odd question, but how does Eva Mark.09 see when in its headless state (before it "awakens" and grows eyes and a horn)? I can't see any eyes or holes for exterior cameras on it.

Another thing I'm totally "WTF" about is that, apparently, Eva-13 doesn't project its own A.T. Field. It uses four free-moving mechanoids to deploy a barrier. An Eva, with two souls inside, and it can't even deploy an A.T. Field? What's the significance of this?

After Mari shoots the Eva with the AA Ammo (Anti-A.T. Field?), we see a cut of what looks like the ammo sinking into the Eva (at least, that's how a description I've seen elaborates upon it), and then Mari says,

01:13:30 {Mari} No A.T. Field?
01:13:32 {Mari} Don't tell me this unit...

What was significant about what happened there? What was Mari about to say?

The fact that Unit 13 carries two souls inside may be exactly the reason why it can't deploy an AT field. My guess is that Unit 13 is not only just one of the surviving Adams but one of the Adams fused with part of Lilith herself, and that is the reason why it needs drones to deploy a barrier. Perhaps that is the reason it has two halos and four eyes/arms, as none of the Adams were seen with double halos and arms, and also why it needs two pilots, one of Lilith's children and one of Adam's children, and why it was said to be able to pull out both the spear of cassius and the spear of longinus. I would even go as so far to suggest that Shinji himself is a vessel this time, housing Lilith's soul.............that might explain why he is so crucial in starting the third and fourth impact........... and I remember reading that Kaworu said something about Lilin without a soul cannot pilot Eva 13..............Anybody care to confirm?

Mbryo wrote:Anybody care to confirm?

According to our current translation he said:

01:08:08 {Kaworu} No, a Lilin imitation cannot be used.
01:08:10 {Kaworu} Their souls' placement is different.

in reference to Rei Q.

Shinoyami65 wrote:Thismay seem like an odd question, but how does Eva Mark.09 see when in its headless state (before it "awakens" and grows eyes and a horn)? I can't see any eyes or holes for exterior cameras on it.

Who knows? Eva MP worked like that too, didn't they? Maybe it has some kind of 6th sense or alternatively there are backup, non-organic, cameras connected to the Eva like artificial eyes of some kind.

Shinoyami65 wrote:Thismay seem like an odd question, but how does Eva Mark.09 see when in its headless state (before it "awakens" and grows eyes and a horn)? I can't see any eyes or holes for exterior cameras on it.

you want to complain about this ? explain me then how the evas pilots have ominiscent 360 peripheral view when their evas eyes are faced forward, or how can they see a buble view when they are inside a tight tube.

bladerj wrote:you want to complain about this ? explain me then how the evas pilots have ominiscent 360 peripheral view when their evas eyes are faced forward, or how can they see a buble view when they are inside a tight tube.

I allways interpreted that the eyes are not functional in the normal piloting process.
They are mere indicators for acitivity whatsoever.
The 360 degree view is coming allways from some sort small artificiall camera system linked to the eva/entryplug.

Other than that, no clue..

Does the Mark.09 ever deploy an A.T. Field? I thought it might have been using one during the scene when it bursts through the wall to get Shinji (since it's being pounded by warship cannons during Shinji's rant at Misato, to no effect) but when Mari fires her handgun at it, it does not deploy an A.T. Field. I also don't remember it using one when fighting Eva-02 later on.

At field is described as the light of one's soul back in the TV, maybe unit 13 doesn't have a soul.

Maybe it's how it has been designed so that it can get through the lid?

Shinoyami65 wrote:Does the Mark.09 ever deploy an A.T. Field? I thought it might have been using one during the scene when it bursts through the wall to get Shinji (since it's being pounded by warship cannons during Shinji's rant at Misato, to no effect) but when Mari fires her handgun at it, it does not deploy an A.T. Field. I also don't remember it using one when fighting Eva-02 later on.

As state by Misato, conventional weapons have no effect on angels (and therefor evas) just look at bardiel being bombarded by a columm of tanks without even halted, it wasnt even using the at field, thearmor was enough

bladerj wrote:As state by Misato, conventional weapons have no effect on angels (and therefor evas) just look at bardiel being bombarded by a columm of tanks without even halted, it wasnt even using the at field, thearmor was enough

Mari should be familiar with the Dead Sea scrolls, and if she states that this may be one of the surviving Adams, this most likely should be so. Adam's soul is utilized by Kaworu (it's still unclear why Adam's original body has been multiplied), and let's assume, that 13 have no souls within it (as of TV - AT-field is a boundary of soul and strong AT-field makes angels and Evas invulnerable to the conventional weapon, as of TV again, the armor is not an armor, but a limiter, so it's not enough).
If 13 is soulles, it's interesting what its control system is. Since Yui is seems missing from 01 this may be her personality, and Kaworu doesn't need any souls/personalities, since he is bound to Adam (he was able to control Adam-based Evas in TV even out of them), but here the control system was cut for him, so it may utilize Gendo's personality (Kaworu calls Gendo father, and 13 may be a Gendo/Yui-personality based machine).

gchristnsn wrote:Mari should be familiar with the Dead Sea scrolls, and if she states that this may be one of the surviving Adams, this most likely should be so. Adam's soul is utilized by Kaworu (it's still unclear why Adam's original body has been multiplied), and let's assume, that 13 have no souls within it (as of TV - AT-field is a boundary of soul and strong AT-field makes angels and Evas invulnerable to the conventional weapon, as of TV again, the armor is not an armor, but a limiter, so it's not enough).
If 13 is soulles, it's interesting what its control system is. Since Yui is seems missing from 01 this may be her personality, and Kaworu doesn't need any souls/personalities, since he is bound to Adam (he was able to control Adam-based Evas in TV even out of them), but here the control system was cut for him, so it may utilize Gendo's personality (Kaworu calls Gendo father, and 13 may be a Gendo/Yui-personality based machine).

Eva-02 isn't confirmed to have a soul in Rebuild, but has an AT Field. It's dangerous to make assumptions going on stuff from the TV series, because this is a different continuity and some of the rules are different. None of the Evas except Eva-01 are confirmed to have a "resident soul" in Rebuild and the Nemesis Series and the Wunder can deploy A.T. Fields, so having a soul doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for having an A.T. Field in Rebuild.

Additionally, Yui may not be missing from Eva-01; Fuyu claims she is still inside. Ritsuko's line about not finding anyone in Eva-01 may be because Yui has hidden herself away, or Wille weren't looking for Yui when they went poking around in Eva-01's core.

The Gendo/Yui in Eva-13 theory also doesn't work because it seems a person can only become an Eva through direct entry into the core in both Rebuild and the TV series, and Gendo is still pretty much the same after the timeskip. He's not missing, nor does he seem to have lost any of his soul to Eva-13.

Also, Yui was apparently still in Eva-01 when she activated Eva-01's God Mode lasers to save Asuka at the start of 3.0- considering that Nerv hasn't had access to Eva-01 since she was sealed in the tesseract, there's no way they could have got her soul.

Shinoyami65 wrote:Eva-02 isn't confirmed to have a soul in Rebuild, but has an AT Field. It's dangerous to make assumptions going on stuff from the TV series, because this is a different continuity and some of the rules are different.

I'm aware of that, and because there is still no full picture, any theory could not be considered as a correct. Just take it easier.

Shinoyami65 wrote:None of the Evas except Eva-01 are confirmed to have a "resident soul" in Rebuild and the Nemesis Series and the Wunder can deploy A.T. Fields, so having a soul doesn't seem to be a prerequisite for having an A.T. Field in Rebuild.

There is also (almost) nothing which prohibits to think that 02 may have a resident soul. If it's not a prerequisite and Nemesis can utilize both AT and anti-AT fields, there are no problems to build a generator for all circumstances, but something prevents 13 to have it (being a boundary of soul is a very nature of AT field as of TV, and thus Nemesis may use souls of christian infants :) ).
As of 02, it definitely can't have a resident soul only if Mari's new unit can deploy AT-field (I didn't remember does it do this), or soul-splitting comes into the play (which I personally refrain).

Shinoyami65 wrote:The Gendo/Yui in Eva-13 theory also doesn't work because it seems a person can only become an Eva through direct entry into the core in both Rebuild and the TV series, and Gendo is still pretty much the same after the timeskip. He's not missing, nor does he seem to have lost any of his soul to Eva-13.

You need explain possible autonomous Evas in this case (06 at the dogma may be a such thing). It may use Ayanami's personality as a control system and a dummy-plug system based on Ayanami's personality.

gchristnsn wrote:You need explain possible autonomous Evas in this case (06 at the dogma may be a such thing). It may use Ayanami's personality as a control system and a dummy system based on Ayanami's personality.

Well, to become the control system of an Eva you seem to have to enter into the core like Yui did (hence the flashback to Yui's Contact Experiment during Fuyutsuki's monologue on direct entry into cores). The Dummy Plug simulates a pilot, but the soul of a person can't be replicated via data. Despite its mechanical-sounding name, the control system seems to involve the soul of a living person. Is this a mix-up with the Personality Transplant OS mentioned by Ritsuko in the original TV series? Because it was never proven to actually be used in Evas in the TV series, and it is not mentioned at all in Rebuild. If we're going by the guidelines of the TV series, you can't simply create a soul from someone's personality data and put it into something else; that's why all the Rei clones in the Reiquarium are empty: souls can only be found in the Chamber of Guf, and it was empty in the TV series.

Additionally, the Mark.06 was constructed while Rei was up and about during 1.0 and 2.0, so the control system can't be her. It could still have a Dummy Plug based on her inserted into it, though.