Yui in 3.0 and Beyond

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Re: [SPOILERS] Yui's consciousness

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Postby CJD » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:12 am

View Original Postpwhodges wrote:It seems that in practice she only reacts to Shinji's state of mind when he is piloting, not directly to anything external


Well, in the 6 minute preview she reacts to Asuka calling out for Shinji to help her. From inside her entry plug. Across the vacuum of space... Yea, I have no idea what we're supposed to make of that one. I suppose the simplest explanation is that there's still some form of radio receiver in Unit 01 and Asuka was broadcasting on known channels?

The thing with Yui is that she's apparently a step above Gendo. If Seele are masters at manipulation, and Gendo's a step above them, able to manipulate their manipulations to fit his scheme, then Yui's a step above him. Not only is she able to play the game as it goes on, but she also had the foresight to anticipate the general style of moves some ~20 years in advance. Then again I suppose that part's easier than it seems since she has intimate knowledge of the relevant parties that we don't. She knows Gendo better than anyone, and if her relationship with Seele is the same as NGE she knows Seele pretty damn well too, surely better than we do. But I wonder how Wille factors into her plans? Did she anticipate that? Gendo apparently did.

Another question is how involved was she in Eva 01's actions at the end of 2.xx? Was 3I her goal or, anticipating Kaworu, was 3I just a stepping stone to her true goal? Was she involved in it? Maybe it was somehow an automated reaction (Or, of course, to be fair, maybe it was Shinji's doing. I'll present that as possible since this thread isn't about him.)

She's just... in the end I wouldn't even know where to start speculating about her motives. If they aren't the same as they were in NGE, which is a safe bet, then they're indecipherable to me.
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Postby Darkwing » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:19 am

We can't assume things are going exactly as planned for Yui either. Even if we don't know what her goals are.

Okay maybe Yui really likes Dating sim Visual Novels. Original Eva was her going for the Asuka ending. Rebuild she's trying for the Rei ending, but may get the Mari or Sakura ending.
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Postby Na7e » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:52 pm

Original Eva Yui left Asuka for dead.

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Postby esselfortium » Sun Dec 23, 2012 2:37 pm

View Original PostDarkwing wrote:We can't assume things are going exactly as planned for Yui either. Even if we don't know what her goals are.

Okay maybe Yui really likes Dating sim Visual Novels. Original Eva was her going for the Asuka ending. Rebuild she's trying for the Rei ending, but may get the Mari or Sakura ending.

What does this mean? Do you really think any of them are going to want to date Shinji at this point, or am I completely misreading? (:|

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Postby Darkwing » Sun Dec 23, 2012 3:17 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:What does this mean? Do you really think any of them are going to want to date Shinji at this point, or am I completely misreading? (:|

It was a joke.
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Postby Legendary » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:33 pm

I like the idea of all of this just being a Dating Sim for Yui though. She's not doing too well this time around, but it's still hilarious and is now canon.

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Postby Darkwing » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:32 pm

Yeah, it started as a joke between some friends and me when we noticed how many good looking girls Shinji knows. And Kaworu. But he requres clearing all the girls endings first.

Back on topic, I wouldn't make any bets on things going exactly as planned for Yui. Unless they made her a lot less nice than the original series, considering how badly things are hurting Shinji, and how badly the planet has been messed up. And how close 4I went to Seele's plans.
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Postby Kendrix » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:52 pm

I'm just wondering WTF she was doing during TI.

unlike Shinji, she built it, she knows how it works and what it is, so she can utilize the EVA's capabilities without starting an impact, she did so in 1.0.

Why didn't she stop it? Couldn't she? Wouldn't she?

How concious is she even, given how Shinji didn't seem to remember a thing of his own stay in EVA 01?
The mechanics seem somewhat different from what we saw in episode 20...
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Postby CJD » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:18 pm

View Original PostDarkwing wrote:Back on topic, I wouldn't make any bets on things going exactly as planned for Yui. Unless they made her a lot less nice than the original series, considering how badly things are hurting Shinji, and how badly the planet has been messed up.


I don't want to turn this into a "Yui: Cold Hearted Bitch or Loving Mother?" thread but in NGE Yui wasn't exactly a saint either. I'm not sure how she compares to Gendo, but at the very least she's willing to sacrifice a lot for her goal.

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Why didn't she stop it? Couldn't she? Wouldn't she?


That's the million dollar question, I suppose.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:02 pm

Yui in NGE has a bit of that "inscrutable god" / "force of nature" thing going on. She's neither "cold-hearted bitch" nor "loving mother", but (by our standards) both in equal measure. For her, in her current state at least, acting as both nurturer-creator-protector and indifferent destroyer may well not generate any existential conflict. This is as she must be, to do what needs to be done. Or it's how Anno decided that she ought to be.

So far, NME seems to be following the Yui/Gendo/Kozo plot elements from NGE at least in broad strokes. As such, I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that Yui was behind Near 3I, motivated similarly as her NGE equivalent: all to get a Fruit of Life for later use. Given all of the weird prognostication that seems to go on in NME especially, it would not be surprising, either, if Yui expected that the Impact would be stopped by the Mark.06.

Why leave it to an outside force to stop? Well, aside from the whole "Shinji's gotta carry that weight" angle for 3.0, it could just be an effect of seeing the world in a distanced, godly sort of way. "All the death that happens now is only temporary, to be remediated via my efforts to come... The specific scale of the damage does not matter within certain limits. As long as the Impact is eventually stopped, it's all good." But that's just a wild guess -- who knows what the gods might be thinking?
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Postby Kendrix » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:16 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:"All the death that happens now is only temporary, to be remediated via my efforts to come... The specific scale of the damage does not matter within certain limits.



That begins to sound more and more like Gendo's logic...


A "Son, you might want to stop now so you don't grill the planet" would've helped a lot... The thought that she somehow was cut off from controling the EVA when Shinji went god mode sounds strange, considering that he's connecting to it through her, but then again, he liquified somewhere along the way, which should give him the same level of control she had, 'cept she knew that this thing has a blow up the planet button....


One factor is that she may not have expected to get incapacitated by incoming spear before the impact was done - Maybe that would've been an EoE-style impact (tang everybody since destiny demands it, then reverse it or ask the children if they want it reversed) if not for the interruption courtesy of SEELE that rendered anyone already dissolved permanently soupified?

And after that, she was prevented from further action by being speared/shot into space. The spear would stop her, it was made to hold godly beings, but would space? It does look like EVA 01 can break out of the tesseract, If Shinji can laser the mechano-angel, Yui could laser whatever she wants to laser.

In any case, everyone (except maybe SEELE) is totally forced to fall back on their contingency plans by Q. Gendo was not expecting any 14 year wait. (2.0:"Not long now...")
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:32 pm

It seems there's a discrepancy between Gendo and Seele's scenario here: Gendo was expecting to finish his plan fairly soon after 2.0, but Seele seem to be fine with sending Unit-01 into space, waiting 14years, and dying in the meantime. They must have a lot of contingencies... I'm guessing that Yui must have some reason for staying in the tesseract, seeing as she could have lasered her way out. Maybe it was because Unit-01 has no rockets or any sort of propulsion system that would work in a vacuum so there'd be no way to navigate when she got out?
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Postby Alpha » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:39 pm

View Original PostShinoyami65 wrote: Maybe it was because Unit-01 has no rockets or any sort of propulsion system that would work in a vacuum so there'd be no way to navigate when she got out?


That seems unlikely, as we see the 4A thingies using AT Field propulsion. Seeing that Unit-01 displayed an outstanding manipulation of her AT field at the end of 2.0, i would assume using it as propulsion is not a big problem.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:10 pm

Yui always seemed fine with waiting as long as necessary for the 'appointed times'. This continuity involves much more waiting, but if you're a god/Eva, 14 years and 28 years probably aren't all that different.

Kendrix wrote:That begins to sound more and more like Gendo's logic...

Gendo does implicitly agree with Yui on a lot of things. :devil:

The thought that she somehow was cut off from controling the EVA when Shinji went god mode sounds strange

If I had to guess, I'd say that she wasn't cut off. Quite the opposite: Shinji provided the "catalyst" that Yui needed, being a god who is not only imprisoned by Nerv's technology, but the very nature of whose powers seem to be intrinsically bound to "human desire" in some way.

As for "why is a catalyst needed at all?": It could be a "failsafe" of the Evas' fundamental "programming" (as Adams / copies thereof) that an Eva cannot use its powers to weave its OWN desires. Instead, it can only act on the wishes of another soul. (Is there any precedent for this in wish-granting deities and spirits from various mythologies? It seems like there should be...) But as we know, Shinji's fate, and his desires accordingly, have been undergoing manipulation for quite some time...

I have no idea if Yui intended for Third Impact to be her "end game", or if it was just a step along the way (as suggestion in my previous post). Could go either way, couldn't it? So many unknowns at this point.
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Postby Darkwing » Sun Dec 23, 2012 10:14 pm

I'm also wondering if Rei may have thrown things off. I'm just guessing here, but it seems like Rei was all Gendo's idea. And he seems to have her and Shinji as a main part of his plan to get Unit-01 to awaken. We also don't know how close Gendo's plans are still to Yui's. It seems like Fuyustki at least feels there was a divide, with the Shogi scene.

Edit: Going from something Reichu said. Whatever is going on Unit-01 awakening is needed. And it seems an Eva can't just be awakened when it's created. Hmmn, Shinji was in both Unit-01 and Unit-13 when they awakened. Maybe he's more important than we realized? Though his circumstances and reactions were much different.

Maybe it would be much better for Asuka if she doesn't get romantically involved with Shinji. The Ikari's are even more messed up than I thought.
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Postby Kendrix » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:01 pm

Shinji may just plain be destined to blow up the planet, period, wether he reaches that point through a "natural" descent into despair, only sets it off accidentaly, or even against his will...
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Postby Legendary » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:10 am

Yes, that is the moral this story should have. "It's okay to be a monster if it's destiny, so kill the love interests you don't like and bang the blue-haired chick."

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Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:21 am

Legendary: The story does have this "child of preordained fate" thing going on, though I get the feeling that the moral is eventually going to tie into that by saying, "bugger whatever destiny your parents scripted for you before you were born".

Anyway, we've got threads both for Shinji and for impact mechanics if ya'll want to take this further.
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Postby moonwolf2024 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 1:45 am

Alright....lets take a step back here. Did Yui even think this far into the future? Did she sit down and say " hhmmm I've got a great idea! Why don't i abandon my body and let my soul get sucked into this experimental unit we've been working on. Oh and i gotta make sure my son is there to see this. In about ten years or so he'll be able to pilot this montrousity and i'll be able to make him do whatever i want." ......Highly doubt it.

I'll agree that her character is a bit complex. We really aren't sure what her true motives were with SEELE; however, i doubt they were diabolical in nature. I dont think she intentionally erased herself just to screw with her son in the future. Honestly speaking, she's Shinji's ultimate protector and Gendo knew that. He knew that if she were to react to anyone...it would be her own son. It's a total mind fuck. :explode:
Maybe if you shut up and stop over analyzing everything you just might get it........

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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:19 am

View Original Postmoonwolf2024 wrote:I'll agree that her character is a bit complex. We really aren't sure what her true motives were with SEELE; however, i doubt they were diabolical in nature. (snip)

From what I can tell, most of the "Yui is an evil bitch" interpretations emerge as a result of Yui (in NGE, anyway; who knows about this version) prioritizing long-term goals and results over the short-term. Humans, being mortal creatures, have a moral sense that is intrinsically oriented toward the intimate and short-term. The fact that Yui, in the pursuit of her goals (which are presented positively by Anno, in contrast to the alternate future they're combating), allows misery to befall people who are close to her, and close to them in turn, marks her as morally ambiguous, and a very difficult character for many people to come to terms with.

Alright....lets take a step back here. Did Yui even think this far into the future? (snip)

NME has made somewhat more heavy-handed use of the Dead Sea Scrolls as a prognostic device than its predecessor NGE (to the point that Shinji's entire destiny was supposedly scripted before he was born). So if anything, the idea that Yui would be able to plan decades ahead actually has something going for it in this continuity.
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