Mark.06 in 3.0 Discussion

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby NemZ » Sun Dec 02, 2012 8:22 pm

But how did 08 get so messed up?

ARRGH, this battle is so damned complicated!
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Postby Rawinder » Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:27 pm

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:Yep, Mark.06 is speared; in the pose of pushing the Lance through it's own chest a la the MPEs in EOE. It's also kind of half merged/formed with Lilith, and the second Lance is kind of behind Mark.06, going down and through Lilith.


That's interesting. So maybe the 12th Angel possessed Mark.06, took it down into Central Dogma, and attempted to merge with Lilith but was stopped when the Eva (under it's own control? or a dummy plug?) speared itself to prevent Impact?

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Postby Blue Monday » Mon Dec 03, 2012 2:12 am

View Original PostNemZ wrote:But how did 08 get so messed up?

Pretty sure from all the debris and fallout from Fourth Impact, IIRC. Shit is intense.

Actually, I'll have to kind of retract what I said about Eva-13, because I forgot that it impales itself with the two Spears.


View Original PostRawinder wrote:(under it's own control? or a dummy plug?)

I think one of the translated lines bumping around mentions the Mark.06 being an "independent type" as well, or something like that.

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Postby LinNervling04 » Mon Dec 03, 2012 3:44 am

So the only evas left are basically a 9volt battery(eva-01) and a deformed franken-thing? (Eva-02+08) ugh.... wtf.....

I think anno should make 4.0 an alternate ending (as was/is planned) in the sense of "this is how it would've gone if we hadn't deviated from our eva mark-06 hype halfway through production"
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Postby Adam » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:41 am

View Original PostLinNervling04 wrote:So the only evas left are basically a 9volt battery(eva-01) and a deformed franken-thing? (Eva-02+08) ugh.... wtf.....

After the battle, the Wunder takes both Evas away. Eva 08 is pretty much intact. It's "standing" on it's knees and hands or so (like crawling on all 4). It's rolled together a bit, but there was no real damage. It never joined a real fight as far as I can remember. It catched Eva 13 during free fall and the hands and knees might have gotten a bit messed up (the arms on Mari's suit starts to glow -you know it from the end of the Utada-trailer), but otherwise it seemed fine. In the same pose it's being transported away.

However, Eva-02 is pretty much f'd, and only the upper body without arms and legs is left over from the self-detonation. Also the head has been crushed partly, coz in the end Mark 09 in it's Adams-form has caught it pretty badly between it's huge jaws.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:10 am

View Original PostRawinder wrote:That's interesting. So maybe the 12th Angel possessed Mark.06, took it down into Central Dogma, and attempted to merge with Lilith but was stopped when the Eva (under it's own control? or a dummy plug?) speared itself to prevent Impact?


It would make sense if Kaworu went on down as promised, nearly triggered an Impact event, and speared the VI to stop it. My only question at that point is "where did he get the spear?" But perhaps he used the Spear of Cassius (retrieved from Unit 01 after 3I was stopped), which would explain why he thought it would be there at the end of Q, and it somehow transformed into a Longinus state?

This also means Kaworu has a thing for stopping Impacts. 3I, this business with the VI, 4I . . . ah well, a boy's gotta have his hobbies. :lol:
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:27 am

Bagheera: "Converted to 'independent type'" probably means that Kaworu wasn't involved with the Mark.06's last assignment.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Dec 04, 2012 10:51 am

View Original PostReichu wrote:Bagheera: "Converted to 'independent type'" probably means that Kaworu wasn't involved with the Mark.06's last assignment.


That depends a lot on what's meant by "independent type" IMO. But we need more info regardless.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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Postby Kendrix » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:31 pm

"Independent type" may also simply be realted to the fact that we never saw EVA 06 with a cable.

It looks like an angel arrived, took over mark 6, began merging with Lillith and was then sealed via spear, seconds from impact, killing Lillith in the process.

Or it went kinda like the Armisael battle, except with spearing instead of self-destructing.
If Kaworu speared it, (like, ejecting the last moment and taking care of it with his own powers) that's why he may have thought that the spear is still there.

Presumably, SEELE had someone or something swap the spears which makes one wonder where the real spear of cassius ended up.
It may become relevant in final.

If the CI still has any bearing on Rebuild at all, The spear of Cassius might've been the one who came with Lillith, which is why it's retireved from the moon.

...Or second impact blew it there. We can only wait/guess...
What we also know is: There's four spears at all. Two longinus spears... and two cassius spears, maybe?
How sensible of the Rebuild!FAR to send spares.
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Postby StratoSakuya...AF » Tue Dec 04, 2012 3:59 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:"Independent type" may also simply be realted to the fact that we never saw EVA 06 with a cable.

It looks like an angel arrived, took over mark 6, began merging with Lillith and was then sealed via spear, seconds from impact, killing Lillith in the process.

Or it went kinda like the Armisael battle, except with spearing instead of self-destructing.
If Kaworu speared it, (like, ejecting the last moment and taking care of it with his own powers) that's why he may have thought that the spear is still there.

Presumably, SEELE had someone or something swap the spears which makes one wonder where the real spear of cassius ended up.
It may become relevant in final.

If the CI still has any bearing on Rebuild at all, The spear of Cassius might've been the one who came with Lillith, which is why it's retireved from the moon.

...Or second impact blew it there. We can only wait/guess...
What we also know is: There's four spears at all. Two longinus spears... and two cassius spears, maybe?
How sensible of the Rebuild!FAR to send spares.


Belkans don't screw up twice.

I think one of the translated lines bumping around mentions the Mark.06 being an "independent type" as well, or something like that.


They were referring to the experimentation which made it into an independent type. Perhaps that's what "wrecked" M6 up.

And yes, Kaworu still died for your sins, cynicism notwithstanding.[/img]
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:26 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:"Independent type" may also simply be realted to the fact that we never saw EVA 06 with a cable.

Kaworu says of the Mark.06, "Remodeled into an independent type, exploitation by the Lilin brought the unit to a state of ruin." Note "remodeled" -- implying Mark.06 was made into an "independent type" sometime after it came down from the Moon.

"Independent" is 自立 (jiritsu). Some context at Eijirou. "Autonomous" might be a more fluent way to translate it.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby LinNervling04 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:44 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:Kaworu says of the Mark.06, "Remodeled into an independent type, exploitation by the Lilin brought the unit to a state of ruin."


The term "independent type" may simply be a translaton barrier between two languages. There was some minor controversy in EoE over Asuka's final line "I feel sick." Or rather, as it came out "How disgusting." Autonomous may be what they were going for but perhaps the Japanese can only be directly/correctly translated to "independent"? >.<

Anyway, if it was exploitation by the Lilin that was the downfall of Mark.06, then does this mean people themselves did this to Mark.06 before the 12th angel? For fear of the example set by Unit-01?
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Postby Reichu » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:42 pm

View Original PostLinNervling04 wrote:The term "independent type" may simply be a translaton barrier between two languages. (snip)

Or the translation I chose to start with is just an artifact of my lack of familiarity with the term. :p Digging into Eijiro for more 'mechanical' uses of jiritsu, we get things like:

自立運転
self-sustained operation
自立電源システム
stand-alone power system
自立型装置
self-contained device
自立ロボット
self-contained robot
自立ロボットを作る
create an autonomous robot
自立歩行人間型ロボット
humanoid robot that can walk on its own

Ahh... Tangorin actually has an entry for the full compound, jiritsugata:

じりつがたjiritsugata 【自立型】noun: stand-alone —IT term.

Uhhh... hmm. :chinscratch:
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
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Postby JoeD80 » Tue Dec 04, 2012 5:47 pm

And the kanji separate are

自 - self,
立つ - to stand

so 'self-standing = autonomous' seems a fairly accurate translation.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Dec 04, 2012 8:20 pm

View Original PostReichu wrote:じりつがたjiritsugata 【自立型】noun: stand-alone —IT term.

Uhhh... hmm. :chinscratch:


Awwww yeah. Mark VI confirmed to be a Tachikoma! :jiggy:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Postby Mbryo » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:20 am

From what I'm reading heree, it seems that Gendo intended to mess up Seele's plans from the start using Unit 01. My guess is:

-Seele got their hands on a surviving Adam and re-constructed into Mark.06
-But what they didn't know was that Gendo had already gotten his hands on another surviving Adam and built Unit 01 with it, keeping its construction secret from Seele. Unit 01's Adam soul was seperated from its body and put into Rei's body, thus making her the vessel for Adam's Soul and depriving Unit 01 of its original powers
-But when Seele started building Mark.06, which would have all of its godly powers intact (as Kaworu, another Adam's vessel, is its pilot (Mark.06 +Kaworu's soul=God)), Gendo knew that all other Eva units and ultimately NERV would become unnecessary
-So Gendo started the Third Impact, fusing Unit 01's body with Rei's soul and forcing Seele to activate Mark.06, even though it was still incomplete
-So Seele changed their original plan, which was for Mark.06, fully revived as Adam, to fuse with Lilith and start the Third Impact. Instead, they sent down Mark.06, now unable to function as a complete Adam, into Terminal Dogma to become a vessel for the 12th Angel (which was supposedly destroyed but apparently managed to survive and managed to reach Lilith) and after piercing Lilith with a Lance (which seems to have killed her) pierced itself, thus deactivating itself and the Angel, and waited for 14 years in the Dogma for Eva 13
-Eva 13, half Adam and half Lilith, descended into the Terminal Dogma and Shinji's pulling the spear out activated the 12th Angel and Lilith, which fused with Unit 13 to start the 4th Impact, but Misato managed to stop it with the exploding dogleash
-Apparently NERV and Gendo has other ways to start another impact to fulfill his own plans, whatever they are
FUS roh Duh.

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Postby Darkwing » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:14 pm

The only problem with that theory is where do Yui and Shinji come in. We know Yui's soul is in Unit-01. And Gendo seemed to feel that Shinji and Rei's relationship was key to Unit-01's awakening.
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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 8:24 am

View Original PostMbryo wrote:-Eva 13, half Adam and half Lilith, descended into the Terminal Dogma and Shinji's pulling the spear out activated the 12th Angel and Lilith, which fused with Unit 13 to start the 4th Impact, but Misato managed to stop it with the exploding dogleash
-Apparently NERV and Gendo has other ways to start another impact to fulfill his own plans, whatever they are


Um...
SPOILER: Show
Misato didn't stop 4th Impact, Mari did by pulling out Shinji's entry plug. Kaworu's death did shit all to stop 4th Impact


The Mark.06 may be related more to Lilith than to Adam; after all when we first see it it looks very reminiscent of Lilith's TV appearance. But that could just be trolling to distract us from its later connection to the Adams.
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Postby Mbryo » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:21 am

What is weird is that Shinji actually seems to be a major figure in triggering the impacts, at least in the case of the third and fourth impact. Otherwise Gendo would have no reason at all to retrieve his son from Wille, he certainly was not doing it out of a fatherly sense of responsibility. I'd even say that Shinji's will is the key to starting the impacts. The third impact was purely the result of Shinji's will, and Gendo and NERV seems to have waited 14 years to use Shinji specifically with Kaworu for the Fourth Impact. Perhaps 14 years is some kind of cycle for the Impacts to happen (perhaps the Doors of Guf can only be opened every 14 years). Perhaps Seele was trying to use Shinji with Kaworu and the Rokugouki in the original version of their plans, but the Third Impact made him unavailable and another 14 years had to be waited until Shinji was again available for use...............

And Mari stopped the 4th Impact by pulling out Shinji's entry plug? I only know what happened in Q from a friend who went over to Japan to see the movie..............How did she manage to pull it out? Unit 13 evolved into the radiant giant stage if I'm correct............. And what happened to Unit 13 in the end? Does it just go limp after Shinji is ejected? It already absorbed the 12th Angel, Lilith and the Rokugouki, so it is potentially a God..................
FUS roh Duh.

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Postby Shinoyami65 » Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:13 am

View Original PostMbryo wrote:And Mari stopped the 4th Impact by pulling out Shinji's entry plug? I only know what happened in Q from a friend who went over to Japan to see the movie..............How did she manage to pull it out? Unit 13 evolved into the radiant giant stage if I'm correct............. And what happened to Unit 13 in the end? Does it just go limp after Shinji is ejected? It already absorbed the 12th Angel, Lilith and the Rokugouki, so it is potentially a God..................


Don't ask me how she managed it. I guess we'll have to see the film to find out
Until then the only explanation is that she's Mari and she's awesome. Main discussion about Eva-13 is here: http://forum.evageeks.org/thread/13603/SPOILERS-Eva-Unit-Formats-and-Name-Meaning-Discussion/40/?


To get back on track, how much of the Mark. 06 is left in 3.0? Is most of its body intact, or is it mostly fused with Lilith already?
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