Tribblepoo wrote:Perhaps we should narrow the focus of the conversation to "What can get around/negate/get through an AT field?"

Characters outside of the Eva-verse have three options:

• Hit the AT Field with enough energy to shatter it.
• Use a psychic attack on the pilots to render them unable to generate an AT Field at all.
• Cut the umbilical cable and wait (see: run like hell until the internal batteries run dry).

riffraff11235 wrote:Characters outside of the Eva-verse have three options:

• Hit the AT Field with enough energy to shatter it.
• Use a psychic attack on the pilots to render them unable to generate an AT Field at all.
• Cut the umbilical cable and wait (see: run like hell until the internal batteries run dry).

Or bypass the field and gain access to the entry plug (the teleport option). This is the second option above can be generalized to "find a way to attack the pilot directly."

Tribblepoo wrote:It seems like we all agree that the biggest sticker is the AT field. Without that, the Evas are just giant brutes, as reliant on provided equipment to defeat their enemies as a normal human is (just on a bigger scale). The Evas themselves are relatively weak, given their size.

Perhaps we should narrow the focus of the conversation to "What can get around/negate/get through an AT field?"

:bigguns: will have the Evas shaking in their armor/restraints

KnightmareX13 wrote::bigguns: will have the Evas shaking in their armor/restraints

Those ladies have led some pretty hard lives, so it's nice of you to give them a chuckle like that!

Bagheera wrote:Those ladies have led some pretty hard lives, so it's nice of you to give them a chuckle like that!

oiy I know that be the sound of nervous laughter savvy?

riffraff11235 wrote:Characters outside of the Eva-verse have three options:
[list][*] Hit the AT Field with enough energy to shatter it.

Or hit it with something with properties that would naturally dispel it (Nth metal, a Blank field, or indeed, Anti-A.T. Fields, however those works).

I'm thinking powers like Amaterasu (from Naruto) could also get past, a force that does nothing but consume. If it can burn fire, and other ninjutsu, no reason to think it can't also burn fields of manifested-psychic energy.

Bagheera wrote:Or bypass the field and gain access to the entry plug (the teleport option)

Perhaps not even teleport, anyone who could phase-shift, like Martian Manhunter, or otherwise separate themselves physically from the world (pretty much the entire cast of Bleach), could likely get past.

... Of course, with instant transmission, that gives Goku yet another way to take these things down. BP

Narutu and his Massive rasengan can defenetly kill an eva. real fast.

Ideon could possibly destroy an Eva just like it destroyed the whole universe.

Gus Hanson wrote:Ideon could possibly destroy an Eva just like it destroyed the whole universe.

not this shit again

Xard wrote:not this shit again

Did i miss something?

Ideon never destroyed the universe. That's annoying and stupid myth origin of which I'm not sure of at all.

It's the "One More Final has amalgation of Asuka/Misato/Rei LOL" of Ideon

Gus Hanson wrote:Did i miss something?

The Ide only wiped out humans and the Buff Clan; and then all their souls followed Messiah to some new world for a do-over. Despite the fanon, it was pretty obvious when watching Be Invoked that the effects were local and specific.

Ulquiorra's Lanza del Relampago > Lance of Longinus.
Arc-en-Ciel = Goodbye Unit 01!

StratoSakuya...AF wrote:Ulquiorra's Lanza del Relampago > Lance of Longinus.
Arc-en-Ciel = Goodbye Unit 01!

And ATF says "no".

You people do realize those things can blow off nukes, right? That means Bleach-wise we're talking Yamamoto and . . . yeah, that's about it.

Bagheera wrote:You people do realize those things can blow off nukes, right? That means Bleach-wise we're talking Yamamoto and . . . yeah, that's about it.

*God I can't believe I'm doing this* Ok, if we're going to talk Bleach then we have a few options. Ichigo could probably do it somehow. I don't know if Getsuga Tenshou could break through an AT Field, and I wouldn't be surprised if it couldn't, but maybe Final Getsuga Tenshou could. Even if normal Getsuga couldn't Ichigo could just keep hammering at it until it breaks down since he's supposed to be like a bloody endless well of energy or some shit and I doubt an AT Field could survive an endless battering if the attack was strong enough. At the very lest if Ichigo couldn't do it now he could do it by the end of the series since he's only going to get exponentially more powerful. I also doubt an Eva could hit him since he's so bloody fast.

Second choice is the latest big bad, Juha Bach.

That doesn't guarantee success for him, though, since his attacks might not be as effective against an AT Field. I'm less inclined to believe he could do it then Ichigo but really we don't know enough about him and his abilities yet to know his full potential or style.

We also have Espada #2 (I've forgotten his name) as Alaska said. Here's a perfect case of power ranking not being the most important part of the equation. Starrk might be able to do it but I pretty much have no doubt #2 could. I doubt even an AT Field is immune to degradation over a long period of time.

Now, the other thing with Bleach characters is that, besides blatant power levels and explosions, some have powers that are more strategic. Could Aizen's shikai go through an AT Field? If it could does it matter whether the target's looking directly at it, is it like Geass where if you look at it through indirect means, such as the monitors or whatever the pilots use to see outside the Eva, it doesn't work? Maybe that was answered in Bleach but if it was I don't recall. I doubt it works like Geass, though, so I'd wager Aizen could just use his mind games to trick the pilot into thinking he killed Aizen, lower his AT Field, and then kill them.

Shunsui's also a possible choice. The effect of his Shikai seems to come from the body of the target rather than a projectile or spell that moves from his sword to them, so if they don't play the game right he could probably destroy the Eva directly.

And, of course, there are still numerous captains and visored who's bankai we don't know, including Aizen and Shunsui. Plus the current villains that follow Bach whose powers we know almost nothing about, Zero Squad who we know exactly nothing about, and the Spirit King, whatever the hell he is.

Really, the big question when discussing the viability of Bleach characters remains, like every single other fictional character, the AT Field. Would it block Aizen's shikai? Would it block Shunsui's shikai? On a related note, would it block Geass, and would Geass work on the Eva (but obviously not the pilot)? Sadly, or not, we'll never know.

I feel so dirty.

CJD wrote:*God I can't believe I'm doing this* Ok, if we're going to talk Bleach then we have a few options. Ichigo could probably do it somehow. I don't know if Getsuga Tenshou could break through an AT Field, and I wouldn't be surprised if it couldn't, but maybe Final Getsuga Tenshou could. Even if normal Getsuga couldn't Ichigo could just keep hammering at it until it breaks down since he's supposed to be like a bloody endless well of energy or some shit and I doubt an AT Field could survive an endless battering if the attack was strong enough. At the very lest if Ichigo couldn't do it now he could do it by the end of the series since he's only going to get exponentially more powerful. I also doubt an Eva could hit him since he's so bloody fast.

Most, if not all of the captains could just wear them down, yes. I doubt an Eva could actually take any of 'em out straight up; if they're the five-minute variety they're pretty much done, but something like Yui . . . I dunno, man. I suspect that once an S2's equipped Ichigo's boundless resources won't amount to much (but even still, barring the Lance it's not like Evas can actually damage Captains/Espadas, so I expect most such matchups would end in stalemate).

Second choice is the latest big bad, Juha Bach.

SPOILER: Show

He kills Yamamoto.

Huh. I stopped reading Bleach during the Aizen arc, shortly after Aizen used hax to take Yamamoto out of the equation (I wasn't mad about that, but the Aizen shit just wore me down to the point where I lost interest). Now, reading this, I'm trying hard to imagine how it wouldn't suck ass. I'm coming up empty.

We also have Espada #2 (I've forgotten his name) as Alaska said. Here's a perfect case of power ranking not being the most important part of the equation. Starrk might be able to do it but I pretty much have no doubt #2 could. I doubt even an AT Field is immune to degradation over a long period of time.

I think it's a moot point, really; all one has to do is trap him in an ATF and it'd be the same effect we saw when Omaeda trapped him. A skilled user (Asuka as of EoE, for instance) would just crush him like a bug.

Now, the other thing with Bleach characters is that, besides blatant power levels and explosions, some have powers that are more strategic. Could Aizen's shikai go through an AT Field?

Doubtful. The real question is whether or not it would fool tech, which is how the pilots get all of their data. You can bet none of them have seen the Shikai before, so unless it can reliably fool their sensors and the Evas' eyes it won't do much.

But Aizen could trick the pilots in any manner of other ways, since that's his thing. I don't doubt he could defeat them, but he ain't doing it directly.

Shunsui's also a possible choice. The effect of his Shikai seems to come from the body of the target rather than a projectile or spell that moves from his sword to them, so if they don't play the game right he could probably destroy the Eva directly.

It's possible. Depending on the game he might be able to turn an Eva's power against itself, but that's iffy. He's probably the best shot apart from Yamamoto, though.

I feel so dirty.

Don't feel too bad. We all acknowledge this was a stupid topic from the outset, but speculating's fun, right?

As others have said it comes down to the AT field.
Giant sniper episode/scene basically says a modest amount of energy can destroy ramiels AT-field. The first angel with weak AT field took an N2 mine to the face and had to regenerate for a while. These plot points kind of suggest that even though the AT field is some sort of transcendent barrier of godliness. It still interacts with very normal energies instead of completely ignoring them, in which case they'd be invincible to everything conceivable except the eva's.

So ramiel could be easily taken out by various things people have mentioned (i've personally not watched any shonen uber super powerup stuff so I have no idea on the lore of other things, but I've seen various universe destroying things).

The last point of contention is how much stronger 400% synchro rate/awakened unit 01 is than the usual stuff. Zeruel is way stronger than ramiel (multiple AT fields at will vs Mari in rebuild). But perhaps when unit 01 goes ultimate badass, perhaps it transcends any logical follow on from the usual AT fields and physical power based phenomenon. Unit 01 could be essentially invicible to anything except plot devices such as the lance of longinus, which has NO basis on energy or anything. It could be the mushy pea of longinus and would still get the job done.

In the end giving the benefit of the doubt to eva, comes down to plot device vs plot device. Eva can be an entity like a God - beyond comprehension and all nature of energy/conservation. To beat that, you need another god like phenomenon...and if what ever competition is put against it has a quantifiable strength >9000. Then the quantifiability is what will make it lose to Shinji awakened mode.

I think I'd have to rule out any of the teleport/phasing methods, since the ATF causes spatial distortions and at the maximum end (can evas potentially match seeds in terms of field strength?) they might even be able to just shrug off any sort of energy-based attack. Psychic/illusion sorts of things are a definite maybe, but remember that Arael was using an ATF to do those and Ritsuko seemed to expect some sort of tech in the plug to cancel that, so it's quite likely anything that doesn't also have similar ability to punch through an ATF would be unable to affect the pilots. Debatable whether the same thing applies to soul/chi powers, and anything of the sort might be something an eva could mimic.

It has to come down to either attacking the eva's weakpoints, specifically preventing them from activating in the first place if possible (and as Yui has shown that might still backfire) or running them out of power (which again still might not work if it goes berserker)... or just having stupidly powerful offensive abilities to overcome the ATF directly, of course.

Best way to beat an eva is probably to just blow up 2A while classes are in session, say with a truck bomb or a cruise missile.

Bagheera wrote:Most, if not all of the captains could just wear them down, yes. I doubt an Eva could actually take any of 'em out straight up; if they're the five-minute variety they're pretty much done, but something like Yui . . . I dunno, man. I suspect that once an S2's equipped Ichigo's boundless resources won't amount to much (but even still, barring the Lance it's not like Evas can actually damage Captains/Espadas, so I expect most such matchups would end in stalemate).

If we're talking about Yui the equation changes a lot. If we're talking about Yui with S2 the equation changes a lot more. Honestly, as someone pointed out Eva's really aren't that broken compared to most fiction (which is a good thing). Yui+S2 would be a more even fight but the answers would be a lot less definitive.

Huh. I stopped reading Bleach during the Aizen arc, shortly after Aizen used hax to take Yamamoto out of the equation (I wasn't mad about that, but the Aizen shit just wore me down to the point where I lost interest). Now, reading this, I'm trying hard to imagine how it wouldn't suck ass. I'm coming up empty.

I think it's a moot point, really; all one has to do is trap him in an ATF and it'd be the same effect we saw when Omaeda trapped him.

Maybe I'm remembering wrong, I have a habit of turning off my brain when I read Bleach so I tend to forget stuff, but didn't the barrier fail? What defeated #2 was that they teleported a piece of his aura effect inside his body, so he started aging from the inside out. I know they tried to lock him in the bubble when Soifon shot her nuke at him but that didn't work out in the end, did it?


Anyway, opinions on whether Lulu's geass would work on an Eva, anyone?

NemZ wrote:Best way to beat an eva is probably to just blow up 2A while classes are in session, say with a truck bomb or a cruise missile.

Considering how much Rei misses school that's not guaranteed. Also Kaworu never even attends.

CJD wrote:Maybe I'm remembering wrong, I have a habit of turning off my brain when I read Bleach so I tend to forget stuff, but didn't the barrier fail? What defeated #2 was that they teleported a piece of his aura effect inside his body, so he started aging from the inside out. I know they tried to lock him in the bubble when Soifon shot her nuke at him but that didn't work out in the end, did it?

That was a failure on the part of Soi Fon, not the barrier. In an Eva's case the barrier would be complete and, in the S2 versions, nigh-indestructible. It also wouldn't need a hole to let attacks in, as the user could just slice the guy to ribbons inside the field (which would have much the same effect as teleporting an affected hand into the guy's stomach).

Really, ATFs are leet hax, and as long as they're in play the Eva wins unless they're dealing with someone in a whole 'nother weight class (deities/cosmic entities, Goku/Superman, etc) or effects that somehow bypass the field outright (I do think dimensional teleports would work here, i.e. effects that have you leaving space/time and re-entering at the desired destination vs. stuff like Instant Transmission and the like).

Of course, when you're talking spirit shit you also have to ask whether other sorts of characters would also have powerful ATFs of their own. If so that changes things considerably.