Q Trailers Thread (was: Q trailer on new Nico Nico)

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby SEELE-01 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:59 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:It wouldn't be EvaGeeks without the usual doomsayers sprouting off "The film is doomed" because of 15 seconds of footage.


Doesn't this happen with, well, practically every sequel of a something with an already settled fan base?
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Postby Nonoriri » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:10 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:It wouldn't be EvaGeeks without the usual doomsayers sprouting off "The film is doomed" because of 15 seconds of footage. Never mind that a lot of said footage - Kaworu high angle, Mari serious face, Shinji on floor, Rei in a dark room, etc - is very high quality animation & aesthetically effective.

Honestly the biggest fault that can be thrown at Rebuild is that these characters were NEVER MEANT to be cinematic quality visions. Even EOE which has superb animation quality is not up to snuff as a great deal of stuff out there. The Eva characters were created for simplistic TV animation first.


Mari serious face and Shinji on the floor are examples of the usual stand out cuts by Honda or whomever and are indeed the best looking of the bunch but I notice you don't include Asuka's when it is also good but has the final frames stick out like a sore thumb.

This is pretty nonsensical, these characters are drawn in a different style by a different person for film, as they were for EoE. As is evidenced by Summer Wars one can adapt Sadamoto's designs in a way that is more suitable for animation, that didn't really happen for Rebuild. You can continue hand-waving away whatever real problems rebuild has and continue this relentless optimism in the same way we can harp on it, you're just as broken a record at this point.

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Postby esselfortium » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:21 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:It wouldn't be EvaGeeks without the usual doomsayers sprouting off "The film is doomed" because of 15 seconds of footage.

So what you're saying is we shouldn't judge prematurely.

Ah well. The footage for 3.0 looks fantastic despite what the naysayers bemoan otherwise!

Oh. Nevermind, I guess actually that's.. not what you meant at all.
Last edited by esselfortium on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:21 pm

Which Asuka frames are we talking about here? They look pretty fine to me.

Also, the difference between being a broken record and a vocal supporter of something is the supporter only posts something when he feels the need to. The broken record keeps on going & going with the same 5 or so points again & again & again day in & day out.

Either way, I'll be back when there's genuine conversation to be held. Not just Internet Negativity. I was just at a great wedding! There's too much good joy in the air with that & new developments in my own professional life to waste more time arguing with a disgruntled folks who have been repeating the same chatter since mid 2009 on an internet forum.

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Postby Nonoriri » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:25 pm

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:Which Asuka frames are we talking about here? They look pretty fine to me.

Also, the difference between being a broken record and a vocal supporter of something is the supporter only posts something when he feels the need to. The broken record keeps on going & going with the same 5 or so points again & again & again day in & day out.

Either way, I'll be back when there's genuine conversation to be held. Not just Internet Negativity. I was just at a great wedding! There's too much good joy in the air with that & new developments in my own professional life to waste more time arguing with a disgruntled folks who have been repeating the same chatter since mid 2009 on an internet forum.


http://twitpic.com/b51coy/full

http://plonq.org/up/herp.jpg

http://plonq.org/up/%5Bhd%5D_q_1080p_-_youtube.mp4_snapshot_00.10_%5B2011.09.18_05.34.27%5D.jpg

The very last frame, her expression being held there is not quite as good looking as it was back in 2011, her chin is also pretty sharp looking. (lol)

So you don't actually have an argument then. :deadhorse:
Last edited by Nonoriri on Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Fazmotron » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:29 pm

Cool it.
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Postby Nonoriri » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:06 am

Also for the record I'm expecting 3.0 to have better animation than 1.0 and 2.0 what with Honda being upgraded to chief animation director and Inoue joining as AD as well, at least it seems more promising.

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Postby Blue Monday » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:21 am

Huh? Which Inoue is that? The only Inoue that could be referred to as so is Takehiko, haha.
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Postby Nonoriri » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:23 am

View Original PostBlue Monday wrote:Huh? Which Inoue is that? The only Inoue that could be referred to as so is Takehiko, haha.


lol

Toshiyuki Inoue. Animation director and animator on Denno Coil, A Letter to Momo, Magnetic Rose, Jin-Roh, Tokyo Godfathers and Millennium Actress to name a few.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uN5Hrt_1mc[/url]

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Postby Blue Monday » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:37 am

No "lol". Inoue is the author of two of my favourite comics, so I got excited there for a second, even though it made no sense at all - As, you know, he has no experience/history with animation. At all, AFAIK.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:54 am

After little more than 500 frames of trailer(s) we're back to EoE=masterpiece/NME=shit, animation-wise...
View Original Postgwern wrote:Each section header is a link target (if you go to the Table of Contents at the top); so http://www.gwern.net/otaku#p-19 would get you to that quote... well, *closer* to that particular quote.

Thank you, I'll keep it in mind.
View Original PostKnuckles wrote:I second that. That would be fucking amazing.

It wouldn't be amazing, I'd have to strangle Anno if it were to happen and Japan still has death penalty, it would be troublesome.
View Original PostThe Eva Monkey wrote:I hope Shinji and Kaworu fuck in this version.

My body is read for it, hopefully I fapped to enough yaoi doujins.
Last edited by Hyper Shinchan on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:00 am

View Original PostNonoriri wrote:You can continue hand-waving away whatever real problems rebuild has and continue this relentless optimism in the same way we can harp on it, you're just as broken a record at this point.

If they were "real problems," then they either would have...

A) Have been worked out before or during production. At the very least have changed hands to someone more competent for the sequel films, or...

B) Have gleamed such a poor critical acclaim that to continue the films such as they have all the way into the fourth film would be financially irresponsible.

...I think what we have here is merely a difference of opinion, especially after we start moving away from what aspects may or may not have effect production in various ways. Some people like NME's animation, from CGI to character, others have varying degrees of opinions about it, then others just downright hate it. But it's clearly moved away from discussing various production aspects of the films and into what we prefer over what we don't prefer. I enjoyed the atmospheric lighting and shading in Anno's NME films and all of the films I've seen from Satoshi Kon. I think it's sued to its fullest to give the film proper tones and moods in the story-telling. I also like the more muted and simplistic colors of Mamoru Hosoda's films, not because it's "better suited for animation," (whatever that means, seeing as how movement was depicted in both films regardless) but because it's also important to the tones and moods Hosoda brings to his movies. The lighter color palette, even lighting, and simplistic character adjustments in Summer Wars would be inappropriate for 2.22, and likewise the darker colors, heavy lighting, and detailed graphics of 2.22 would be inappropriate for Summer Wars. (Imagine Summer Wars looking like anything other than flat simple graphics that suggest a simulated use of a telephoto lens when composited in the background just right, and the film suddenly doesn't work anymore.)

After all, some of this stuff is merely just as subjective as the styles of musical score selected to accompany the films anyway. It's like what the DP for LotR said about his lack of source lighting: "[It] comes from the same place as the music."

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Postby Nonoriri » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:08 am

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:If they were "real problems," then they either would have...

A) Have been worked out before or during production. At the very least have changed hands to someone more competent for the sequel films, or...

I also like the more muted and simplistic colors of Mamoru Hosoda's films, not because it's "better suited for animation," (whatever that means, seeing as how movement was depicted in both films regardless) but because it's also important to the tones and moods Hosoda brings to his movies.


They have done exactly this for 3.0, they have a chief animation director now: Takeshi Honda (previously only the mechanical animation director) and for 3.0 it's Akemi Hayashi and Toshiyuki Inoue as animation directors, they have also brought on as I posted some time ago Mahiro Maeda as director (in addition to the usual Masayuki, Tsurumaki and Anno as chief director)

The character animation designs as adapted from Sadamoto's original designs are much more simple looking than say the designs in Rebuild are. Simple designs are easier to draw, thus are better suited to something which requires a whole shit load of drawings i.e animation.
Last edited by Nonoriri on Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:12 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:11 am

^
Somehow the result is even more controversial though, at the very least I preferred the visual style of 2.0 if I have to be honest, those chins, especially Asuka's one, leave me a little perplex.
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Postby Nonoriri » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:36 am

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:^
Somehow the result is even more controversial though, at the very least I preferred the visual style of 2.0 if I have to be honest, those chins, especially Asuka's one, leave me a little perplex.


3.0 is supposed to be controversial isn't it? :3c

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Postby Kozar927 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:32 am

I haven't posted on here in a very very long time, but I wanted to say to the doomsayers that this animation probably isn't final. The content of the trailer was super awesome and got me incredibly pumped for Q. Ya the animation was nowhere near as good as 2.0, but its a trailer lets not assume the whole movie will look like that

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Postby Kendrix » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:48 am

View Original PostUBERGEEKZILLA wrote:my predictions. i dont think Asuka will die. why would she? she lived in the original series.( she came back to life at the end of Eoe).


I don't think she'll die either - whatever happened in the original is completely meaningless at very least since Rei survived angel absorption - the bets as to who lives and who dies are off.

But Asuka is just not the type of the character to get killed off. Tortured out of her mind, ripped to pieces, humiliated? Yeah, but not killed off for real as a drama source. She's more of a drama recipient than a cause - killing someone off is usually done to have someone else react.


View Original PostUBERGEEKZILLA wrote: plus there is still that subplot about her still loving Shinji. they wont just kill her off without that being resolved.


It was resolved. right in 2.x, too.
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Postby Jornophelanthas » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:11 am

I believe the in-depth analysis of animation quality in the trailers, at the technical level and espousing familiarity with the quality of work of specific animators is counterproductive to the actual enjoyment of the soon-to-be-released movie(s).

There can be such a thing as too much technical knowledge. Like if you are an expert on carpentry, you are unable to walk into someone's home and admire the architecture, because of the flawed techniques used in the woodwork. "Nice room, but I can just see how those windowsills could have been done a lot better."

I am a layman when it comes to animation techniques, and I intend to stay that way. Because knowing which animators are capable of using which techniques in order to create the illusion of a stylized human being on a flat (computer) screen threatens to shatter the suspension of disbelief for me. If that is the way you judge a production, then you can only enjoy work that has been pulled off flawlessly. You may appeal to values such as "purity" or "craftsmanship", but you cannot deny that you have just raised the bar for your ability to enjoy a movie.
(For the same reason, I tend to avoid looking at pictures of voice actors, especially movies where they are actually performing voices for animated characters I am familiar with.)

My personal position in this is to not allow my immersion into the new Evangelion movie be ruined by any knowledge of how animated films are crafted. It is easier to enjoy a movie, of course, if you don't know how to identify potential technical flaws. And I have every intention to enjoy this movie.

In short, while I am impressed by some people's knowledge of the gritty parts of animation and the abilities of several Japanese animators, I am telling those people to lighten up and enjoy the show.

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Postby Bagheera » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:53 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:It was resolved. right in 2.x, too.


That was rather pointedly not a resolution.
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Postby Noriko is my wife » Sat Oct 20, 2012 7:57 am

Nonoriri, Honda was only mecha-exclusive AD on 1.0. For 2.0 he also worked on the character animation. And 1.0 had Kise as AD yet the quality of the scenes he worked on are far from his work on EoE.

What strikes me most about the Asuka is comparison 1. I like the white background and effects and 2. the composition has changed. The speculation that it's cropped for the trailer makes sense since it's not an improvement in any way.

This is the best criticism of anything visual so far.
Image

If we're going to judge the animation from the small amount of scenes we've been shown I like the direction 3.0 is heading towards. Asuka in the eye drop commercial or the scene of Shinji screaming are very lively. Moving away a bit from Sadamoto's designs (and the look of a more than a decade old TV series) isn't bad either.


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