Q Trailers Thread (was: Q trailer on new Nico Nico)

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby KnightmareX13 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:11 pm

broke apart the eye drop trailer into the pictures
http://s830.photobucket.com/albums/zz222/KnightmareX13_eva/Rebuild%203/eye%20drop%20trailer-ad/
here is the vagina/eye/possible angel sequence:
SPOILER: Show
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

I see the bad vagina arising.
I see trouble on the way.
I see earthquakes and lightnin'.
I see bad times today.

Don't go around tonight,
Well, it's bound to take your life,
There's a bad vagina on the rise...

In case the reference went over ye heads
Last edited by KnightmareX13 on Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:14 pm

Just a reminder to keep things cool and collected, folks. Noticing some passive-aggressive moods in this thread today.
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Postby Angel of Will » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:19 pm

I was right about them pooling ideas from the Manga. Look at all the piano action! Kaworu even seems to have a personality.
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Postby bladerj » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:00 pm

WOW, is this for real ? the animation quality droped A LOT, even the fill in extended scenes from 2.22 were better.
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Postby Monk Ed » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:07 pm

View Original Postbladerj wrote:WOW, is this for real ? the animation quality droped A LOT, even the fill in extended scenes from 2.22 were better.

:headscratch: People keep saying things like this but I just don't see it! It all looks the same to me.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:08 pm

View Original PostMonk Ed wrote::headscratch: People keep saying things like this but I just don't see it! It all looks the same to me.


Likewise. But it's the same refrain we've heard before, really; people have been saying the NME's animation quality is crap since day one, no surprise to hear it again now.
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Postby Nonoriri » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:12 pm

Be glad that you can't see it.

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Postby Clover » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:13 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Likewise. But it's the same refrain we've heard before, really; people have been saying the NME's animation quality is crap since day one, no surprise to hear it again now.
It's what the guy said earlier in the thread. They just took out the filter so it looks less "film" like. If you go back and watch the trailers for 1.0, it's just as choppy. Still looks a bit cheaper now, though. Asuka running in particular makes me cringe.
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Postby Jornophelanthas » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:22 pm

As has been said before, the YouTube version has a very low resolution. The link to the higher-resolution version in this thread is still nowhere near movie resolution.

While I am of the opinion that the character animations are inferior to the background quality, but at least in the previous movies, those backgrounds were phenomenally detailed and sometimes approaching photo-realism.

Unfortunately, the one thing the previews have given us very little of is backgrounds and environment animation. Just two mostly-obscured plug interiors and spartan furniture.

In short, we have too little to actually make a sound judgement on art quality at this stage.

---

Also, I would like to comment that we have yet to see an Evangelion on the outside in what is confirmed to be end-quality. (I am not counting the two Asuka-trailers, because the first one was released so early it could have easily been a work-in-progress, and the second one was broadcast on a building, which makes it near-impossible to make out details.)

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Postby bladerj » Fri Oct 19, 2012 8:33 pm

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:As has been said before, the YouTube version has a very low resolution. The link to the higher-resolution version in this thread is still nowhere near movie resolution.

While I am of the opinion that the character animations are inferior to the background quality, but at least in the previous movies, those backgrounds were phenomenally detailed and sometimes approaching photo-realism.

Unfortunately, the one thing the previews have given us very little of is backgrounds and environment animation. Just two mostly-obscured plug interiors and spartan furniture.

In short, we have too little to actually make a sound judgement on art quality at this stage.

---

Also, I would like to comment that we have yet to see an Evangelion on the outside in what is confirmed to be end-quality. (I am not counting the two Asuka-trailers, because the first one was released so early it could have easily been a work-in-progress, and the second one was broadcast on a building, which makes it near-impossible to make out details.)


I'm not saying image quality i'm saying animation wise and character bios consistency, in evangelion 2 there were a few scenes like that that i remember but for me, they didnt make me cringe the least, but this trailer seeing Asuka running scene with the weird nose and mouth, and that GODAMN AWFULL face shot of mary ??? i've seen better fan art of her face, i really hope they do reanimate this for the home release.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:40 pm

The animation quality isn't that bed really. The frame-rate is a bit slower than other Japanese animated films, but the point is more of the use of them over the fluidity itself.

Check out this clip from 2.22's phone conversation with Asuka and Misato, for example. Starting at 41 seconds into the clip Anno starts using a very specific aspect of the French New Wave cinematic technique that he wasn't able to pull of in the TV series because of the limited character animation through the show, where it looks like the Asuka's dialogue was covered in one long take, then that take was edited down to specific segments that the filmmaker thought worked best for the scene. Even though other aspects of French New Wave appeared in NGE, Anno was never able to utilize this particular part of it because the limited animation kept the characters from having the proper blocking necessary to make the cuts as apparent as they needed to be. Because of this lack in character blocking through animation, Anno would instead create scenes that would use the unedited long take in the original NGE TV series, merely "skipping" the step where he as a filmmaker would edit the take down into shorter segments.

It's because of this use of French New Wave editing techniques that was finally made possible by the better animation fluidity when compared to the original TV series that makes it a much anticipated improvement to the Eva franchise. I mean, sure, you can argue that Summer Wars had more fluid animation (which it did), but the filmmakers never bothered to use their fluidity as creatively as Anno did in his NME series. It's like Mamoru Hosoda simply shrugged as said "Well, it's smooth looking, and that's all that matters to me."

(I say this as a great fan of his two latest animated films, and an admirer of the visual aesthetic brought to Yoshiyuki Sadamoto's character designs in his movies.)

Also, I wonder if one can argue that the character animation is NGE wasn't as impressive as the character animation from other Japanese animations contemporary to its time. I seem to remember thinking that the character animation in Nadia: The Secret of Blue Water (predating NGE by about 5 years) was much better than the character animation in NGE. Maybe we just need to realize that it's an Eva series, and just like the TV series predating these new films, Evangelion battle animations take priority over the character animations.

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Postby Nonoriri » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:48 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:The animation quality isn't that bed really. The frame-rate is a bit slower than other Japanese animated films, but the point is more of the use of them over the fluidity itself.


This is so wrong I'm not sure where to start.

Ok I'll start with this, "frame rate" and "slower" (compared to what and when) when used in this context are nonsense terms which mean nothing and have no practical application to anything. Fluidity is achieved with technique, the very careful timing and spacing between key drawings is what accomplishes this. Simply having more frames does nothing. It may very well be true that other films have more frames of animation, it could be due to the length of said film or that it simply needed more drawings to accomplish what they set out to do, but that doesn't actually speak to the quality of said frames. What you probably mean is related to the quality of said frames in drawing aspect (checked by the animation director) or the quality of those frames in motion.


The film Jin-roh for example has great character animation designs (good animation direction) and very well animated characters, and is in all aspects a visually striking and accomplished film. Unless you think Anno is purposely telling his staff to draw worse drawings or whomever in particular storyboards something passes it the key animator is instructed to design cuts in a way that is intentionally of lesser quality this issue lies in the talents or lackthereof of the staff and not in a purposeful design decision.
Last edited by Nonoriri on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:01 pm

^Yes, that is probably what I mean. I come from a live-action background, and work with cameras, not cel and ink/digital shading/whatever the hell the kids are doing these day. Regardless, I still feel that Anno's use of editing accomplishes much more than the timing of an animation sheet when it comes to the film's aesthetic and tone. I also still feel the same way about NGE's character animation quality compared to the rest of its contemporary peers.

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Postby Nonoriri » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:06 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^Yes, that is probably what I mean. I come from a live-action background, and work with cameras, not cel and ink/digital shading/whatever the hell the kids are doing these day. Regardless, I still feel that Anno's use of editing accomplishes much more than the timing of an animation sheet when it comes to the film's aesthetic and tone. I also still feel the same way about NGE's character animation quality compared to the rest of its contemporary peers.


So why does End of Evangelion, Anno's most accomplished work as a director feature sublime animation? It's because of the talents of those staff who worked on the film. Because Tadashi Hiramatsu checked those drawings instead of Hidenori Matsubara or whomever. TV quality character animation in a film is a bad thing, Anno's direction does not change anything about it, whether or not it's a more important aspect of a film (and in this case an animated film's animation not being important seems a tad ridiculous) isn't quite the point.

Its not as though 3.0 would be worse with better animation, in fact it could only be better. There isn't any downside to it, there isn't any vision that is being changed there. Rebuild isn't even a uniquely stylistic film series with wild designs that makes use of more limited animation creatively, in this case it's just generally mediocre with a few flourishes of really nice animation by stand out animators (like Mari's character animation in the Beast mode cuts by Tetsuya Nishio, or Tadashi Hiramatsu's Asuka cuts)

Eva TV proper is really cheap with character animation indeed but does feature really fantastic mechanical animation like you've stated, but that's a standard to hold a TV series up to. Why should Rebuild get a pass when they've had as much time (and this is the most important factor) and money as they should need, especially for 3.0?

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:21 pm

I agree. There are a few scenes in EoE where the character animation is really that amazing. But then there are a couple shots with Asuka in the cockpit of Unit 02, where it just appears like they're shaking the camera back and fourth. (I'm not sure how that would be done in cel animation...) Then there was a whole 3 minutes where the film was suddenly a live-action one, preceded by a couple minutes of what appeared to be photoshopped single-frame images flashing before the screen. I wonder if those techniques also helped budget for the character animation in the beginning half of that film, as well as set its own tone in the second half.

I also have no opinion over Hidenori Matsubara, simply because I can't tell if this comparatively limited animation is his fault or a stretch in the animation budget. Especially since the TV series also seemed to suffer from the same thing compared to its peers. (EoE notwithstanding.) It also seems like the NME films have a lot more shading compared to other animatied films like Mamoru Hosoda's Summer Wars and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. I wonder if that also effected production schedules and budgets Regardless, the animation does seem to suffer from it.

In fact, the only Japanese animated films I can remember having very high quality animation along with very detailed shading and lighting effects as seen in the NME films are the late Satoshi Kon's films. Even Studio Ghibli seems to put all of their shading effects into their backgrounds instead of their character animations. Again, I wonder if this choice in shading and lighting didn't effect the independently funded character animation in the NME films, especially when trying to have the character lighting and shading match that of the CGI Eva battles.

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Postby riffraff11235 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:25 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:What I really remember about 2.22 is the sound mix controversy.


Would someone care to explain what this is?

Also, I like how people are trying to judge how much screen time each character will have based on a 30-second trailer. Really, guys?
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:29 pm

View Original Postriffraff11235 wrote:Would someone care to explain what this is?

Also, I like how people are trying to judge how much screen time each character will have based on a 30-second trailer. Really, guys?

The theatrical edition, 2.0, had the entire sound effects mix in the "Give Me Wings" scene, which was stripped down in Unit 01's breathing in the 2.22 disc releases.

Also, I totally agree with you on the 30-second preview thing. I think the other preview was about 15 seconds long. It's rather ridiculous.

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Postby Nonoriri » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:32 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I agree. There are a few scenes in EoE where the character animation is really that amazing. But then there are a couple shots with Asuka in the cockpit of Unit 02, where it just appears like they're shaking the camera back and fourth. (I'm not sure how that would be done in cel animation...) Then there was a whole 3 minutes where the film was suddenly a live-action one, preceded by a couple minutes of what appeared to be photoshopped single-frame images flashing before the screen. I wonder if those techniques also helped budget for the character animation in the beginning half of that film, as well as set its own tone in the second half.

I also have no opinion over Hidenori Matsubara, simply because I can't tell if this comparatively limited animation is his fault or a stretch in the animation budget. Especially since the TV series also seemed to suffer from the same thing compared to its peers. (EoE notwithstanding.) It also seems like the NME films have a lot more shading compared to other animatied films like Mamoru Hosoda's Summer Wars and The Girl Who Leapt Through Time. I wonder if that also effected production schedules and budgets Regardless, the animation does seem to suffer from it.

In fact, the only Japanese animated films I can remember having very high quality animation along with very detailed shading and lighting effects as seen in the NME films are the late Satoshi Kon's films. Even Studio Ghibli seems to put all of their shading effects into their backgrounds instead of their character animations. Again, I wonder if this choice in shading and lighting didn't effect the independently funded character animation in the NME films, especially when trying to have the character lighting and shading match that of the CGI Eva battles.


I specify Matsubara because it looks to me like he's the character animation director or at least he did the character animation designs (as they most often look like his drawing style) and to me Hiramatsu's work in EoE is just much better looking, I think this has a fundamental impact on the character animation argument. As great designs that lend themselves well to animation (again like how Sadamoto's designs are simplified for Summer Wars really lends itself well to animation) and if it's that same person doing the corrections it really works out well.

EoE is not a consistently well animated film, but it is a much more consistently well animated film when compared to 1.0 or 2.0. It is shorter than both (I think?) and does have live action parts but I stress that it is the talent of the staff (a one Mitsuo Iso or You Yoshinari for example) that accomplish such great animation that elevates the film to a prestigious tier. I'm also of the opinion that Rebuild's CG is quite a bit worse looking than their traditional efforts, Hashimoto's blood wave in 2.0 is markedly better looking than the dire looking Sahaquiel CG. Which to me mires their mechanical animation rather than strengthens it.

I'd also add that the coloring in Rebuild is comparatively bland, it looks like blanket colors applied to the whole scene rather than scenes lit in a deliberate way. The previous trailer (the one on the wall) sort of looked like an improvement in that it seems lit specifically for red tones as Asuka was flailing around in Unit 02. So perhaps this wont be as much of an issue for me going forward.
Last edited by Nonoriri on Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Postby riffraff11235 » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:34 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:The theatrical edition, 2.0, had the entire sound effects mix in the "Give Me Wings" scene, which was stripped down in Unit 01's breathing in the 2.22 disc releases.


You mean they did that part like they did the Dummy Plug Eva-01 vs. Bardiel fight? In 2.22 they left in the sound effects for that part of the fight against Bardiel.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:56 pm

It wouldn't be EvaGeeks without the usual doomsayers sprouting off "The film is doomed" because of 15 seconds of footage. Never mind that a lot of said footage - Kaworu high angle, Mari serious face, Shinji on floor, Rei in a dark room, etc - is very high quality animation & aesthetically effective.

Honestly the biggest fault that can be thrown at Rebuild is that these characters were NEVER MEANT to be cinematic quality visions. Even EOE which has superb animation quality is not up to snuff as a great deal of stuff out there. The Eva characters were created for simplistic TV animation first.

Either way, I've been poking my head around the threads on and off the past few days and see no reason to contribute to the conversation, at least not until some real info about 3.0 has come out. Right now it's just the usual suspects fitting into their usual roles - a certain few members are overanalyzing EVERY little bit of info to such a ridiculous degree it's parody, certain other members say "Best thing ever" & the usual sticks-in-the-mud badmouth Rebuild as entirely and seemingly have no love for anything Evangelion related post the original airing of Episode 26 in 1996 (As to why they hang out on an Eva forum is beyond me? The only conversation some people apparently want to create on here is "Eva sucks now." Maybe they want to be constant unpleasant downers perhaps? Rain on everyone's parade?).

I'm curious to see how 3.0 is going to be responded to from the overall Eva community. Rebuild has from the get go been intended as one story spread over four films and throwing the whole experiment under the bus for not living up to NGE's expectations has always been foolish in my eyes. NGE is a lighting in a bottle experience. Nothing Anno & Co do can repeat that. But that isn't to say Rebuild can't be fun (which it sure as hell as been for so far! Solid classic storytelling! More so than the experimental naked emotionality of NGE) & if you don't like it why waste your time on forums constantly saying so.
Forums are meant to be places of discussion but if the one discussion point to make is always "This sucks because of Reason A" - which for feck's sake we may as well call the Asuka Reason since a lot of nerds tossed Rebuild into the trash once it became clear Asuka is now clearly a SUPPORTING CHARACTER - why keep harking on that one point? It seems like a real waste of time.

Ah well. The footage for 3.0 looks fantastic despite what the naysayers bemoan otherwise! I'm quite curious to see what Anno & Co are going to do with 3.0 because for the first time since late 1997 Evangelion has a story to tell where the fans really have no idea what is coming next. Unlike the teasers for 1.0 & 2.0 there is nothing in the (mini) trailers for 3.0 so far that we can immediately connect to a pre-existing scene from NGE.

Bring it on is what I say!


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