[Film] Prometheus + Sequels

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Postby Henry Spencer » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:15 am

Before AVP, I'd say "Fuck Alien 3". It was basically one giant punch to the balls to anyone who liked the first two movies.
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Postby schwarzstahlhelm1993 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:19 am

^^
^^
exactly to both of you

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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Sat Apr 14, 2012 8:30 am

AVP did not screw up Ridley's original canon nor does Peter Weyland existing cause AVP to be non-canon.
It was basically one giant punch to the balls to anyone who liked the first two movies.

Strange, I loved the first two movies yet loved 3 the most out of the franchise; guess that means it either was not a punch to us fans or I have an awesomely high resistance to pain.

And for anyone wanting AVP to be de-canonized by Scott-Man

:flamethrower:

Until we actually see Prometheus we can't say for certain.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:28 am

I love all four films in the original franchise. They're all unique & do their own thing. Even Resurrection which is a black comedy.

The AVP films are money grubbing jokes.

Anywho, YES Prometheus does de-canonize AVP. The Aliens come from the Space Jockeys & were not made by goddamn Predators. The AVP films weren't just shallow they incompetently made. I haven't seen "Hollywood" filmmaking as awful as AVPR - did no one on the set have a lightmeter and why was every effect on the soundtrack a sound clip from Aliens or Predator 2? Terrible film.

Either way, Prometheus the film isn't going to have time to really delve into this extraneous info but the Peter Weyland (Guy Pierce's character) in the film is the man who created Weyland Industries YEARS after the period when AVP took place. He's the founder. Thus, there is no Charles Bishop Weyland who magically looks like Lance Henricksen from Aliens. Without the Henricksen character AVP itself could have never happened. So yeah, AVP is de-canonized in Prometheus. Thank the Lloyd.

That's the way the filmmakers have gone about it and that's the way it is. If you disregard the universe being set up in Prometheus you might as well disregard the universe set up in Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 & Alien Resurrection. You can't pick and choose. AVP & AVPR never happened in the real Alien universe. .

https://www.weylandindustries.com/#/timeline

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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:25 pm

The Aliens come from the Space Jockeys & were not made by goddamn Predators

Yautja did not create xenomorphs, what they did do is take regular ones from Xenomorph Prime and enhanced their genetics a bit.
The AVP films weren't just shallow they incompetently made. I haven't seen "Hollywood" filmmaking as awful as AVPR - did no one on the set have a lightmeter and why was every effect on the soundtrack a sound clip from Aliens or Predator 2? Terrible film.

That was, oh I don't know, KIND OF THE POINT! It was SUPPOSED to be dark and chaotic, that is how creatures from horror franchises are supposed to act! In the dark and in chaos! How would that NOT fit?
Anywho, YES Prometheus does de-canonize AVP.

Nothing that contradicts the time line has been confirmed as of yet and even if it does Prometheus is still a "what if?" story since Ridley left the franchise and it has been used by so many people that no single person can claim canon on it anymore.
Peter Weyland (Guy Pierce's character) in the film is the man who created Weyland Industries YEARS after the period when AVP took place. He's the founder.

There are things called partnerships and cover ups, maybe you've heard of them.
If you disregard the universe being set up in Prometheus you might as well disregard the universe set up in Alien, Aliens, Alien 3 & Alien Resurrection. You can't pick and choose. AVP & AVPR never happened in the real Alien universe.

Yeah, film makers for ONE movie, not an ENTIRE FRANCHISE.
https://www.weylandindustries.com/#/timeline


Where are these supposed contradictions? Because I am not seeing them.

And if Ridley is really gonna act like a crybaby over this I hope Prometheus bombs.
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Postby schwarzstahlhelm1993 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:45 pm

Gendo's Papa, how come I can't see the timeline? All I get is "Weyland Industries" with a small sphere rotating in the middle. Is it my browser or something?


The first AvP film was good action schlock back in its day. The second one, however.....It's as if it had never existed for me *shudders*

Like MacReady said in the Thing: "Why don't we wait, see what happens..?"
It'd be better if we don't fight over this whole "AvP ruined Alien franchise" debate. Then again, I personally hope that Ridley does "de-canonize" the AvP films.

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Postby NAveryW » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:04 pm

The weird thing is...

James Cameron wrote:Ridley and I talked about doing another ALIEN film and I said to 20th Century Fox that I would develop a 5th ALIEN film. I started working on a story, I was working with another writer and Fox came back to me and said, "We've got this really good script for ALIEN VS PREDATOR and I got pretty upset. I said, "You do that you're going to kill the validity of the franchise in my mind." [...] Then I saw ALIEN VS PREDATOR and it was actually pretty good. (laughs) I think of the 5 ALIEN films, I'd rate it 3rd. I actually liked it. I actually liked it a lot.


And, for whatever it's worth...

Joss Whedon wrote:I even kind of liked Alien Vs. Predator.


I'm perfectly fine with dismissing the AvP films entirely, but wouldn't say disregarding Prometheus necessarily entails disregarding the entire Alien canon. All the films contradict each other in minor ways, often deliberately to suit the directors' wishes. In Alien, the xenomorph life cycle was not yet as Cameron planned it (though in the theatrical version it may well be, in a Schrodinger's cat sort of way), The Company was Weylan-Yutani, and the interior of the escape pod looks different than it does at the beginning of Aliens.

You can take all the films as a series or individually. Each film relies on the ones that came before it, but not on the ones that came afterward.

As a compromise for people like TDSA, it's possible to consider the AvP films not canon for Alien but canon for Predator. In other words, the Predator franchise contains xenomorphs but the Alien franchise doesn't have to contain Yautja.
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Postby Twin Drive Sigma Aquarion » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:02 pm

As a compromise for people like TDSA, it's possible to consider the AvP films not canon for Alien but canon for Predator. In other words, the Predator franchise contains xenomorphs but the Alien franchise doesn't have to contain Yautja.

This I can at least settle with once the dust clears and Prometheus does go out of it's way to..... Well you get the idea.
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Postby schwarzstahlhelm1993 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:19 pm

As a compromise for people like TDSA, it's possible to consider the AvP films not canon for Alien but canon for Predator. In other words, the Predator franchise contains xenomorphs but the Alien franchise doesn't have to contain Yautja.


That's how I like to see it.

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Postby Henry Spencer » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:07 pm

The reason I said that 3 felt like a punch to the balls was what it did in the first few minutes: killed off almost all of the characters that spent a whole movie escaping from the facility in one of the most gratuitous ways possible. And then they kill the sole survivor off anyway.

It might be a perfectly acceptable horror movie on its own, but it doesn't really fit as an "Alien" one.
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Postby schwarzstahlhelm1993 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:27 pm

Alien 3 was also a let-down due to the fact that it was initially marketed as "the Aliens reach Earth". However, we got all of that prison crap, which could've been good, but was horribly executed. And the ending was completely unnecessary and cheesy, in my opinion. I just can't fadom why they didn't use one of the first three scripts. They were excellent and perfect for another movie, with a refreshing style and all.

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Postby Fazmotron » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:36 am

The Assembly Cut of 3 is incredible, go and watch that if you haven't already. Also, I absolutely LOATHE Alien: Resurrection, it is the worst out of the original 4, and I think it's even worse than Alien vs Predator (nothing can save AvP:R though). There's just so much stupid shit in Alien: Resurrection and stuff that doesn't make any sense and stuff that contradicts other stuff from the start of the movie and ARGGG, hate it. AvP at least had an interesting concept executed in a very satisfactory manner.
I mean, why halfway through the movie show that the Aliens can fucking spit their blood at people, why couldn't they have done that before to get out of their cells? AvP had an alien use its blood as a weapon, but they thought of a less retarded way to do it; by an alien with a damaged tail spray blood into the air by flicking its tail. Why have a guy pull some of his fucking brain out and look at it, yet have other characters die immediately after having their legs attacked by an alien? Alien: Resurrection and all its shitty writing can go fuck itself.
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Postby schwarzstahlhelm1993 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:42 pm

Worst line: "You are a beautiful, beautiful, butterfly."


That line makes me cringe and shudder every time I hear it. Poor Grima must deny his involvement in that film even now, lo.

AvP:R IS the worst of any of the Alien works done ever, if you include comics, books, etc. It's just SOO wrong. Those Brothers Strause should stop making movies: Skyline sucked too, and its in the same level of "lowness" as AvP:R.

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Postby Fireball » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:09 pm

Only the first 3 movies exist as far as I'm concerned. Aliens is my favorite of them.
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Postby schwarzstahlhelm1993 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:46 pm

I will admit, though, that I actually did like the soundtrack for the fourth film. Although nothing beats James Horner or Jerry Goldsmith.

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Postby Henry Spencer » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:07 pm

More viral marketing. It's old, but I'm bringing it up because no one else has.
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Postby ONIAgent150 » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:01 pm

For me, Alien, Aliens, and Alien 3 are all great. I really love Aliens, but I can respect Alien 3 for wanting to tell its own story. The director's cut is far better and really creates a much better movie. Alien 4 is a travesty. I don't know what this garbage about it being a black comedy is. It's not. I'm super excited for Prometheus, but I'll be honest: the most exciting Aliens related product coming out this year for me is Colonial Marines.
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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:33 pm

View Original PostONIAgent150 wrote:I don't know what this garbage about it being a black comedy is. It's not.


You weren't rolling around the floor laughing to the point that you ended up missing most of the film, due to getting rug burn on your eyeballs? Your sense of humor sucks.
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:35 pm

View Original Postschwarzstahlhelm1993 wrote:I will admit, though, that I actually did like the soundtrack for the fourth film. Although nothing beats James Horner or Jerry Goldsmith.

eh, I thought it was as uninspired and insipid as the movie.

Goldsmith's score for Alien is FANTASTIC (it's so good I own the two-disc CD edition and am proud of it)

Horner's Aliens score is alright and it has some great moments but as a whole it's not my favorite body of work.

However, my favorite Alien score, outside of the original, goes to Elliot Goldenthal's insane score for Alien 3. There's a lot of moments of pure sinister madness, awesome use of multiple styles and pieces and it crafted easily one of the best and most heartbreaking pieces of music ever heard in an ending.
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Postby master_lloyd » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:14 am

View Original PostHenry Spencer wrote:More viral marketing. It's old, but I'm bringing it up because no one else has.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOOJl5lWNfM

Extended version. I think Apple might sue, but I'm enjoying the satire.
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