When Will Lee Win?

For talking about everything else Evangelion: from the various manga and video games to merchandising and video/audio releases.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:11 pm

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Postby gatotsu911 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:51 pm

View Original PostJayfive wrote:Without wanting to open 6 year old wounds

9 year old wounds, actually, but hell, why stop now?

Jayfive wrote:Why in chuffs name did they not go back to Gainax about this?

According to Lee herself, she did not have any direct contact with Gainax while working on the films; that was handled by the producers at Manga.

Jayfive wrote:Have any of those involved in the dub of EoE even commented on this or things like 'Hit em again' since the Commentary of Evil?

To the best of my knowledge, no. Lee appears to remain oblivious as to what specifically upset non-weeaboo fans about her work on the movies.
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Postby Kenshin Sephiroth » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:17 pm

View Original PostJayfive wrote:Without wanting to open 6 year old wounds, how could Win Lee and co NOT recognise that sound as a slap? What did they think Kaji was shot with? A pharmacy plastic toy gun?

It doesnt sound like a low quality gun noise, it sounds like a slap. Why in chuffs name did they not go back to Gainax about this?

*pounds away at horse*

That was an embarassing goof, but remember, it was only done in Death; not like AWL and her team actually changed any of the events already established to have happened during NGE. I actually think it's one of the least important mistakes of the dub. We all already know from the preceding sub and dub of Ep 21 that Kaji was shot, so why continually complain about AWL screwing up one sound effect in a glorified recap episode that was of no importance to the series. Shot sound or slap sound, the guy is dead.

*uses prog knife on horse*

"Hit 'em again" was a far worse offense. That was revisionism. No excuse for that one.

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Postby Azathoth » Tue Aug 16, 2011 3:32 pm

View Original PostKenshin Sephiroth wrote:"Hit 'em again" was a far worse offense. That was revisionism. No excuse for that one.


To be honest, the JSSDF-invading-Nerv sequence has always been over-the-top in terms of brutality, and that's nobody's fault but Anno's. I think Xard posted elsewhere about the deliberate similarity between the aforementioned sequence and some revisionist Japanese film about Iwo Jima or some shit. There are reasons to severely doubt the EoE dub (the mind-blowingly stupid and needlessly confusing "just like Adam was" among them) but "hit 'em again" isn't that high on my list.
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Postby Kenshin Sephiroth » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:08 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:To be honest, the JSSDF-invading-Nerv sequence has always been over-the-top in terms of brutality, and that's nobody's fault but Anno's. I think Xard posted elsewhere about the deliberate similarity between the aforementioned sequence and some revisionist Japanese film about Iwo Jima or some shit. There are reasons to severely doubt the EoE dub (the mind-blowingly stupid and needlessly confusing "just like Adam was" among them) but "hit 'em again" isn't that high on my list.

I remember that line so vividly because up to that point, I was utterly engrossed in EoE and its unfolding events. "Hit 'em again" reminded me that I was watching a movie, pulled me out of the viewing experience, and forced me to go "Hrm." That's unforgivable. Overall, every JSSDF soldier in the dub sounded way too butch and stereotypical ("Showtime, ladies") whereas the sub version had them being more taciturn, professional, and thus all the more threatening.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:10 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:To be honest, the JSSDF-invading-Nerv sequence has always been over-the-top in terms of brutality, and that's nobody's fault but Anno's. I think Xard posted elsewhere about the deliberate similarity between the aforementioned sequence and some revisionist Japanese film about Iwo Jima or some shit. There are reasons to severely doubt the EoE dub (the mind-blowingly stupid and needlessly confusing "just like Adam was" among them) but "hit 'em again" isn't that high on my list.


It isn't single incidents so much as the general attitude toward the process that bugs me. If you're translating a work it is not "your baby". It's someone else's baby that you're making accessible to a wider audience. While there's room for debate on things like literal vs. contextual translations and the like changing sound effects and adding dialogue and such is stepping beyond one's role as translator. It's something that just shouldn't be done.
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Postby gatotsu911 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:12 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:To be honest, the JSSDF-invading-Nerv sequence has always been over-the-top in terms of brutality, and that's nobody's fault but Anno's.

Eh, I think it works in context. Evangelion, by design, can afford to go a little over the top and still maintain its catharsis.

Azathoth wrote:There are reasons to severely doubt the EoE dub (the mind-blowingly stupid and needlessly confusing "just like Adam was" among them) but "hit 'em again" isn't that high on my list.

Wait, a brief translation error is worse than a deliberate and unauthorized alteration of the script?
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:14 pm

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:Wait, a brief translation error is worse than a deliberate and unauthorized alteration of the script?


Seeing as how that translation error has a big impact on the actual story I can see his point.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
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Postby Azathoth » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:23 pm

View Original PostKenshin Sephiroth wrote:Overall, every JSSDF soldier in the dub sounded way too butch and stereotypical ("Showtime, ladies") whereas the sub version had them being more taciturn, professional, and thus all the more threatening.


They're more deadpan, sure, but they're originally written as kind of butch and stereotypical, cavalier... "We never get the easy jobs", "nothing personal kid"...sure, they're professionals, but Anno also has an interest in portraying them as callous and hateful. Honestly I'd say the problems are more with the actors/voice director than the dub script (which remains one of the clumsiest and least helpful translations of EoE I've ever seen, though)
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Postby gatotsu911 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:23 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Seeing as how that translation error has a big impact on the actual story I can see his point.

It has an impact on the PLOT; I dunno about the story.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:30 pm

View Original Postgatotsu911 wrote:It has an impact on the PLOT; I dunno about the story.


:asuka_stare:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Jayfive » Tue Aug 16, 2011 4:52 pm

Whats the original Japanese line that was dubbed as 'hit em again' then?

I thought the fuss was its just a bloody stupid line regardless of revisionism - you only need to set someone on fire once :rei_meh:

Anyway, in the interest in moving this away from an all-out AWL bash, im surprised the ridiculously inappropriate voice acting for Hyuga doesnt get more stick.

Either way - whenever you despair at these dub details - watch the opening scene, watch Asuka vs the harpies, watch the Komm Susser todd sequence, remember why.

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Postby Tarnsman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:05 pm

View Original PostJayfive wrote:Whats the original Japanese line that was dubbed as 'hit em again' then?

There simply was no dialogue there in the Japanese track, IIRC. The last time I saw it was like ~four years ago (excluding enduring through the series and EoE in English like three months ago)
View Original PostJayfive wrote:Anyway, in the interest in moving this away from an all-out AWL bash, im surprised the ridiculously inappropriate voice acting for Hyuga doesnt get more stick.

Because Black Hyuga was so-bad-it's-awesome. He was my shining light in the EoE dub. I found much amusement in Dub Fuyutsuki (who was generally pretty decent) and his exchanges.

Yeah, if you like the rest of the dub, then he's horrible. But as someone who didn't like the rest of the dub, he was fun to listen to.
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Postby gatotsu911 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:28 pm

Well, that's exactly it. If the entire thing were bad, then Black Hyuga would be amazing. Unfortunately, much of the dub was (in my opinion) pretty damn good, which made the embarrassingly awful parts stick out like a sore thumb rather than simply being amusing in their awfulness.
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Postby Shogo-Kun » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:28 pm

I actually thought the dub of EoE was well done. It's hella better thant the NGE dub. Altough overall, the dubs of Evangelion have always been God-tier IMO.
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:30 pm

View Original PostShogo-Kun wrote:I actually thought the dub of EoE was well done. It's hella better thant the NGE dub. Altough overall, the dubs of Evangelion have always been God-tier IMO.


Oh, come on. Now you're not even trying.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Shogo-Kun » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:34 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Oh, come on. Now you're not even trying.

What? I'm serious! I don't rank Evangelion as one of my Top 5 Favorite Animes for nothing! The dubs just puncuate why I love it so much!
NGE was a damned good anime
EoE was an anime masterpiece
And Rebuild is nothing short of epic
Long live the EVAs!!

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Postby Tarnsman » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:34 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Oh, come on. Now you're not even trying.

There are people who generally do believe that. And their entitled to their opinion. Them liking the dub doesn't directly impact you, so it shouldn't bother you. If someone dislikes what you or I persevere as bad, who cares? The only time I'd see getting upset at it is if someone said to you, "Oh hey this X is awesome, you should totally check it out," and then it sucked. That's the only time I get pissed at someone liking something I don't.
"You, sir, are the very heart of the rot that has corrupted humanity from the very beginning!" - tehprognoob
"I know that "chan" is Japanese for something like Mr. or something like that" - TSDA
"If I wanted porn without emotional damage, I'd watch Rebuild." - Azathoth
"because Evangelion and Pokemon are the same show when you really get down to it" - esselfortium
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Postby Fireand'chutes77 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:41 pm

View Original PostTarnsman wrote:Because Black Hyuga was so-bad-it's-awesome. He was my shining light in the EoE dub. I found much amusement in Dub Fuyutsuki (who was generally pretty decent) and his exchanges.

Yeah, if you like the rest of the dub, then he's horrible. But as someone who didn't like the rest of the dub, he was fun to listen to.

But... but... I like the dub and still found him fun to listen to. :dizzy:

(But then, I'm just an engineer. What do I know about quality voicework? :P)

IMHO, for some reason, "black Hyuga" just seems to work for me. Sure it caused quite a lot of "WTF??!" -ing when I first heard him, but... eh, I got over it with a speed that surprised me.

And poor, poor Fuyutsuki. He's trying *so* hard to fill Gendo's effortlessly badass shoes, and just not *quite* nailing it. My favorite moment came as Eva-01's explosion ripped away at the geofront down the the bare hull, exhibiting a force equal to multiple simultaneous H-bombs. Fuyu's reaction? "Set absorbers on maximum... It's only physical shocks."
Said so calmly, but without quite the right air for it...
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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:46 pm

View Original PostShogo-Kun wrote:What? I'm serious! I don't rank Evangelion as one of my Top 5 Favorite Animes for nothing! The dubs just puncuate why I love it so much!


:rolleyes: There's this thing you should see. It's a dub of Macross: Do You Remember Love. It was released in the U.S. as Clash of the Bionoids. I think you'd like it.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.


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