Asuka in Air: Catatonic or Sedated?

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Postby BrikHaus » Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:58 am

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:Evangelion takes place in a science fiction setting, and therefore takes liberties with technology in both explicit and implicit manners. This can also be used to cover up any lack of relevant medical knowledge on the part of the writers and storyboarders. There is a good chance that Asuka's treatment as conceived by the writers goes no further than: "Asuka spends this part of the story being hospitalized and non-approachable. We should show her as either unconscious or otherwise non-responsive, and hooked up to some generic medical equipment."
I'm not saying I believe this is the case, but I do wish to put it forward as a possible answer.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:03 am

View Original PostBrikHaus wrote:THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

Thread over.


Oh, you're no fun. :lol:
For my post-3I fic, go here.
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People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
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Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Fireand'chutes77 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:07 pm

View Original PostBrikHaus wrote:THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

Thread over.

If only debt-ceiling debates went this smoothly. :lol:
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Postby tehprognoob » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:59 pm

View Original PostFireand'chutes77 wrote:If only debt-ceiling debates went this smoothly. :lol:

But that would mean that the people doing the debates would have to love what they're talking about... :shrug:

Anyways, we know that there was a process of linking up pilot and machine. Perhaps they gave her a stimulant, hooked her up to Eva and hoped that she would have regained her ability to synch to a point where she could move the Eva and escape. Perhaps that stimulant woke her up, and she was able to link to Eva, considering her mental breakdown also destroyed her ego, the very thing keeping her from synching because it closed off her heart. With this pride smashed, the little girl inside could reach out of the shell and beg for help, which stimulates Unit 02 to reach over and begin synching. This builds up until the Mother Epiphany can occur, which shocks her brain into consciousness.

Again, feeling pain from the Eva means that she's already in synch with it. In addition, consider the fact that Eva's plug is often referred to as a womb.

By the by, here's a quote from Diane Ackerman's Discoveries on Your Doorstep:

"...The moment a newborn opens its eyes, discovery begins. I learned this with a laugh one morning after delivering a calf. When it lifted up its fluffy head and looked at me, its eyes held the absolute bewilderment of the newly born. A moment before it had enjoyed the even black nowhere of the womb, and suddenly its world was full of color, movement and noise. I've never seen anything so shocked to be alive."


While much of that passage is actually irrelevant to our discussion, it is important to see that the author mentions the shock of being born. Asuka was at least completely withdrawn, in "the even black nowhere" of her inner self (One can almost say her personal hell train car). Suddenly, she is presented with the fact that she is alive, a thought which then triggers a cascade of self-awareness. I believe that the bomb, along with a stimulant, may have woken her brain a little (and again I reiterate the fact that she was able to feel Eva's pain, an indication of partial synchronization), and that awakened portion gradually roused the rest of her mind. Stimulants may have helped. Since she no longer has her all-blocking AT Field-like-Ego binding her mind, she could fully embrace Kyoko, inside Unit 02's Core. Thus, the Epiphany moment occured and she woke up fully, not only physically but also about herself, her reason for living/fighting and why she doesn't really want to die, after all.


I suppose this is much more philosophizing and speculation than a discussion about the actual drugs used, but I'd like to point out that there are lots of thing that they could've used, all to the same result. The banana pack was probably to keep her alive, since she's obviously not in the mood to eat up.

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Postby Bagheera » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:11 pm

View Original Posttehprognoob wrote:Again, feeling pain from the Eva means that she's already in synch with it.


I could be wrong but it looked to me like her reaction was garden variety fear response to big loud explosions shaking around her Eva. I don't think she was synced at the time.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby CJD » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:27 pm

View Original PostBagheera wrote:I could be wrong but it looked to me like her reaction was garden variety fear response to big loud explosions shaking around her Eva. I don't think she was synced at the time.


Same, I never got the sense that she was synched.

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Postby tehprognoob » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:57 pm

It's good now. I got to my PC and fixed it.

The way she reared her head looks like pain to me, similar to how she also arched her back when getting hit by the RLoL. If she wasn't synched to at least a very small degree, then how did the epiphany happen? 02 was dormant, and if she didn't synchronize then how could the withdrawn soul feel Asuka's despair and reach out? It was dormant to the point that Kaworu's soul could fill the vacuum. Remember, Maya did say that she hadn't recovered her ability to synch, so I think that there is at least a possibility that she had some degree of connection to Eva.

To answer your skepticism, it seems that she was awakened fully by the shock of the explosion, yet reacted very little to the other bombs that dropped at the same time. Eva has armor designed to stand up to a nuclear meltdown. A few depth charges would hardly go through so much flesh and metal and make sounds inside the plug. Of course, I am willing to consider the fact that the bomb exploded next to where the ears would be, so if there were sound receptors installed they will pick up the force of the explosion. However, as it is in cold, dense water, I find this theory quirky. Will someone please cite a scholarly article on this subject?

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Postby Seph » Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:05 am

View Original PostJornophelanthas wrote:I am thoroughly unfamiliar with hospital treatments and sedatives (contrary to the baffling expertise of some of the contributors in this thread), but I would like to introduce a pair of caveats to this discussion:

1. Do you also know anything about Japanese hospital practice, as medical policies may differ widely between countries. (E.g. some countries in Europe are extremely reluctant to prescribe antibiotics, except in the case of severe infections, while in some areas of the United States these same antibiotics are casually prescribed as preventative treatments for minor ailments.)
I don't know anything about Japanese medical facilities, but there could be surprising policy differences with whatever we are used to in our local hospitals. And the Japanese system is used as the tacit inspiration for the NERV medical facilities, except where it noticeably differs for story and setting reasons (such as any medical care using science fiction technologies).

Japanese people take A LOT of medicine, and doctors hand it out quite liberally, at least in my experience.

I don't think it's relevant though-. I seems to me that Asuka was simply in a state of complete apathy, which she was awakened from by the combination of her realizing that she was going to die soon, and of her mother communicating with her.

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Postby Trajan » Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:39 pm

View Original PostSeph wrote:I don't think it's relevant though-. I seems to me that Asuka was simply in a state of complete apathy, which she was awakened from by the combination of her realizing that she was going to die soon, and of her mother communicating with her.


That hardly explains her lack of reaction when Shinji was violently shaking her and doing certain other things. No amount of apathy could have Asuka just sleep through that...unless of course she was heavily drugged or neurologically impaired and of these two possible scenarios neither is induced by 'a state of complete apathy.'
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Postby Chroma » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:00 am

View Original PostTrajan wrote:That hardly explains her lack of reaction when Shinji was violently shaking her and doing certain other things. No amount of apathy could have Asuka just sleep through that...unless of course she was heavily drugged or neurologically impaired and of these two possible scenarios neither is induced by 'a state of complete apathy.'


She did seem to be heavily drugged. I mean, she was basically committing passive suicide by laying in the tub to do of starvation or whatever, so they most likely put her under heavy sedatives and the like. Couple that with her apathy and even Shinji fapping over her wouldn't get a response.
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Postby BornIn1142 » Fri Aug 12, 2011 3:51 am

View Original PostChroma wrote:I mean, she was basically committing passive suicide by laying in the tub to do of starvation or whatever, so they most likely put her under heavy sedatives and the like.


Oh, she was committing very active suicide there. It's not terribly visible and therefore not explicitly spelled out, but her wrists seem to be bleeding in that scene.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:54 am

View Original PostSeph wrote:I don't think it's relevant though-. I seems to me that Asuka was simply in a state of complete apathy, which she was awakened from by the combination of her realizing that she was going to die soon, and of her mother communicating with her.


But having some guy shake her violently and jerk off over her didn't get her attention, huh? Yeah, no, sorry. Catatonia, okay. Sedation, okay. Apathy, no way.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby CJD » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:17 am

View Original PostBornIn1142 wrote:Oh, she was committing very active suicide there. It's not terribly visible and therefore not explicitly spelled out, but her wrists seem to be bleeding in that scene.


Key word there, I'm still not convinced that isn't rust, and that she wasn't just in a state of apathy similar to Shinji in the beginning of EoE.

View Original PostBagheera wrote:But having some guy shake her violently and jerk off over her didn't get her attention, huh? Yeah, no, sorry. Catatonia, okay. Sedation, okay. Apathy, no way.


But I agree here. We would have gotten some line from Asuka, even a mumble or something, if she was conscious. I don't expect her to call Shinji an idiot, or even to say something coherent, but I do expect something as simple as "I want to die". I suppose it's possible, but not very likely in my opinion.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:21 am

View Original PostCJD wrote:Key word there, I'm still not convinced that isn't rust, and that she wasn't just in a state of apathy similar to Shinji in the beginning of EoE.


If it was supposed to be rust there's really no reason to make it look more like blood in the DC edits.
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby CJD » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:27 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:If it was supposed to be rust there's really no reason to make it look more like blood in the DC edits.


Not really the place but I'll say this: In the DC, they tidied up a lot of scenes. I've seen both scenes, and I think it's quite possible that was just another enhancement of the scene, making the rust more rust-like.

Regardless, I'm out to prevent any further derailing.

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Postby Bagheera » Fri Aug 12, 2011 8:57 am

View Original PostCJD wrote:Not really the place but I'll say this: In the DC, they tidied up a lot of scenes. I've seen both scenes, and I think it's quite possible that was just another enhancement of the scene, making the rust more rust-like.


Again, there's really no reason to do that. Since when do bathtubs rust, anyway?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby CJD » Fri Aug 12, 2011 9:52 am

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Again, there's really no reason to do that. Since when do bathtubs rust, anyway?

Another time.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:02 pm

View Original PostCJD wrote:a state of apathy similar to Shinji in the beginning of EoE.

SPOILER: Show
Image
Another botched suicide attempt.

"It's Marvin -- he just phoned to wash his head at us."

View Original PostBagheera wrote:Since when do bathtubs rust, anyway?
When they're cast iron and the enamel has cracked.
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Postby Bagheera » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:19 pm

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:When they're cast iron and the enamel has cracked.


...I didn't even know people bothered with those anymore. Why would Tokyo-3 have such antiquities?
For my post-3I fic, go here.
The law doesn't protect people. People protect the law. -- Akane Tsunemori, Psycho-Pass
People's deaths are to be mourned. The ability to save people should be celebrated. Life itself should be exalted. -- Volken Macmani, Tatakau Shisho: The Book of Bantorra
I hate myself. But maybe I can learn to love myself. Maybe it's okay for me to be here! That's right! I'm me, nothing more, nothing less! I'm me. I want to be me! I want to be here! And it's okay for me to be here! -- Shinji Ikari, Neon Genesis Evangelion
Yes, I know. You thought it would be something about Asuka. You're such idiots.

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Postby Trajan » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:32 pm

It could just be the lighting, or perhaps the water is clouded with debris after being opened to the sky after the explosion in '23 devastated what was left of Tokyo-3.
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