Xard wrote:well, all sort of stupid shit "can happen" if Sadamoto is let to touch eva.

Please name the "stupid shit" that Sadamoto made happen in Eva then...

Besides you talked as if Sadamoto needs to be "let" to touch Eva. Sadamoto has as much right to touch Eva as Anno, man....

Xard wrote:it was that from day one. It's still pretty awesome to see Shinji man up and be badass though in official work

Meh. That's not Shinji. We have other characters (and other shows) for that.

Mr. Tines wrote:You mean you hadn't spotted that by the time Asuka was introduced, if not before?

Oh, I had. I'm just surprised he keeps on reinforcing the point in such spectacular fashion.

symbv wrote:Discussion in 2chan was also split between those who preferred the old way and those who loved the new take (the latter outnumbers the former by a large margin). At least we have the official line that this could really happen. And I love every bit of it. That is the point!

And the counterpoint is that this completely misses the point because it replaces Shinji with Simon and completely destroys Asuka in the process.

OH LOOK THE GREAT SHINJI-SAMA IS HERE TO RESCUE ME! LET ME BOW DOWN AND KISS YOUR FEET NOW YOU BIG STRONG MAN YOU.

How revolting. Instead of setting the stage for genuine character growth post-EoE we're left with cliched shonen tripe and hollow characters who've squandered all of their potential. Rebuild's high art compared to this (and that's leaving aside the possibility of epic trolling on Anno's part, which would make Rebuild high art in general).

Uh-oh... Looks like we'll be having a heavy debate on this sea change in plot: old EoE style vs. new Sadamoto EoE style.

^ Haters gonna hate. Just like Rebuild vs the original NGE, right?
I am happy with what I have with the manga...Anyway, many confused the psychedelic trip Shinji went through in EoE as character development when it was more a huge philosophical dissertation doing the rounds...so I won't miss them in the manga Besides many haters didn't like the manga before this point to begin with, right?

symbv wrote:^ Haters gonna hate. Just like Rebuild vs the original NGE, right?
I am happy with what I have with the manga...Anyway, many confused the psychedelic trip Shinji went through in EoE as character development when it was more a huge philosophical dissertation doing the rounds...so I won't miss them in the manga Besides many haters didn't like the manga before this point to begin with, right?

Same here.

symbv wrote:^ Haters gonna hate.

Yes, of course. That's all it is. There's no rhyme or reason to it at all. None whatsoever.

Just like Rebuild vs the original NGE, right?

Except Rebuild's pretty and actually fairly clever in its attempts to troll us.

Besides many haters didn't like the manga before this point to begin with, right?

All along the way. This is just particularly foul icing on the cake.

Just show how many faces and manifestations Eva could have. You can have your grim dark Eva, another can have his hopeful and positive Eva. And they can all be official. AT LEAST ANNO IS NOT TRYING TO TAKE CONTROL OF EVERYTHING EVA -- One credit to him !!

And calling that Shinji Shinji-sama seems off -- as off as Asuka misunderstanding Shinji... anyway there are more than one character of Shinji in Eva...

symbv wrote: Just show how many faces and manifestations Eva could have. You can have your grim dark Eva, another can have his hopeful and positive Eva. And they can all be official. AT LEAST ANNO IS NOT TRYING TO TAKE CONTROL OF EVERYTHING EVA -- One credit to him !!

I agree.
The way I see the Evangelion universe is "Nothing is true, everything is permitted".

All right, I'd like to weigh in on this issue.

I've seen EOE several times that I know who's gonna live or die, or what's gonna happen. The same thing is with some of the books that I read over the years and then later adapted onto the big screen (and vice-versa).

When there is an adaptation of an existing work, the writer or the artist or the director take some certain liberties in altering the plot, setting or the situation to distinguish the adaptation from the original (and of course, his mileage may vary, especially on how his intended audience, especially those who have already read or watched, would react to the changes in the adapted work).

In this case... I've seen Shinji (already rendered helpless after Misato's demise) suddenly become even more helpless and shocked when he saw Unit-02 completely ripped apart, and from there he's so shellshocked that he couldn't make a move to stop the harpies, and indeed the harpies ensnared him and Unit-01 in and from there the rest is history.

I mean, end of history.

While some consider this "capture" as necessary to the plot, some viewers wonder, "He's supposed to fight the bastards mano-a-mano, not stand there and let the bastards take advantage of him!" Hence, it becomes so easy to deride Shinji as being weak-willed and spineless to stop the end of the world, and then some make a double-take at the ending and ask: "what the hell this movie was all about?"

What to do then when adapting the story for the manga? Shall it be necessary to tell the story as it is, or drum up extra interest by altering the plot? As much as I regard the original EOE as satisfactory, I admit I don't want to see yet another repeat of the tragedy in the manga; there has to be a twist, something has to kick in, to snap, some reason why he gets this damn spine out of nowhere and starts slashing down those harpies.

And now... In lieu of a broken boy who'd fapped over a comatose girl before the end of the world as we know it more than 10 years ago, we now have this manga!Shinji taking a bit of his Rebuild 2.22 persona and then goes forward for the kill.




Hmmm... This change in plot confirms to me that the manga is a different continuity, inasmuch as with Rebuild and the original TV series... and of course, EoE.



Herr Lorenz, are you sure you have wet your pants today?

symbv wrote: Just show how many faces and manifestations Eva could have. You can have your grim dark Eva, another can have his hopeful and positive Eva.

My Eva is hopeful and positive. Hell, it's hope made manifest -- everyone who's died can come back to life (hell, even Kaji); the Evas and the SoLs and the Angels that wrecked everything are all gone forever; Shinji and Asuka are together, even though they've failed one another so terribly; Rei is there with them, watching over them, telling us their story isn't over; all of that is cause for hope, man.

Moreover, they've learned that giant robots aren't the solution to their problems and that they have to talk to one another and take care of each other and live. But that lesson kind of disappears if a giant robot goes and saves the day, eh? All of it goes down the drain.

And they can all be official. AT LEAST ANNO IS NOT TRYING TO TAKE CONTROL OF EVERYTHING EVA -- One credit to him !!

Well, yes, it's nice that he's not being George Lucas and all.

[size=8]And calling that Shinji Shinji-sama seems off -- as off as Asuka misunderstanding Shinji...

Not really. If the talented and trained Asuka Soryu gets her ass handed to her by the MPEs and Shinji wades in and starts bitch slapping them that's pretty much exactly what it is. I mean, who knows -- Sadamoto might just have the MPEs revive and go full Instrumentality on Shinji's ass, but given his past efforts that doesn't seem likely.

soul.assassin wrote:While some consider this "capture" as necessary to the plot, some viewers wonder, "He's supposed to fight the bastards mano-a-mano, not stand there and let the bastards take advantage of him!"

He can't. Yui's in full control at that point. The harpies grab Unit 01 because that's part of her scenario as well as SEELE's.

Hmmm... This change in plot confirms to me that the manga is a different continuity, inasmuch as with Rebuild and the original TV series.

This was confirmed way back when Asuka was introduced.

When I read or watch the show, I always kept the following quote in mind, from Brendan (and from the Newtype filmbook) on the issue of different plots/endings:

Q) Are the TV ending and Film ending the same conclusion to the saga?

A) In my view - No.

In the TV ending Shinji chose to stay with Complementation - it isn't even clear that Shinji had a choice at all. He is treated as little more than an example of the process of Complementation - which consisted if breaking down Shinji's link to reality. In the end, Shinji looks at the world of Complementation and smiling happily says "I understand! I can exist here!" He is then congratulated for his decision, by friends living and dead (Kaji), a healthy Touji with his leg still on, and even PenPen. A surreal ending scene to say the least. This ending is similar in context and theme to the ending of George Orwell's book, 1984.

Conversely, the film ends in the opposite manner. Shinji does have a choice and in the last moments of the film utterly rejects Complementation precisely because it eliminates the link to reality, it establishes a false paradise. Complementation is basically a cop-out, and Shinji has matured enough to realize this. The tone at the end of the film isn't a surreal, almost drug-induced, joyful "Congratulations!" for Shinji, but the cold and harsh reality of life.

Further, the Newtype Filmbook description for the scene states (literally):
"Amidst the many words of congratulations, a faint smile starts at the corners of Shinji's mouth (and spreads across his face).
A happy face -- that is the figure of the Complemented Shinji. This conclusion is also one form, one possibility among many."
(Translated by Bochan Bird)

Note, "the figure of the Complemented Shinji". Pretty cut and dry.

About the only way to determine whether Shinji is in full control or not, and whether he'll make SEELE shit their pants, is to read the new chapters.

I'm really curious why both Yamashita and Sadamoto chose to have Shinji save Asuka in thier versions of EoE events.

Are they just not as hardcore as Anno/Tsurumaki/Masayuki?

I know I was supposed to be away to get stuff done in rl, but I had to check this thread... (not to mention I'm recovering from hangover and wouldn't get anything serious done right now in any case)

I know that this is not as strong drama than EoE was...

but f* that.

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ON POGOSTICK YES!!!!!!!!!!!!



Edit: Hey, if it's gonna be that way I'm gonna read it like a fanboy and not particularly care if I still have to go to EoE for my gutwrenching dramas.

Edit2: And yeah, world is still going to be GNR'd too, right?

Edit3: Now I'm actually hoping to get Instrumentality with Asuka on driver's seat. Linky, btw.

Its not the whole story. Asuka can still get a lance in the mush. It can still go all the same way except that Shinji is there on the surface. Especially as we dont know for sure whether the harpies can still reactivate after being sliced and diced.

If someone has seen the entirety of stage 85 then let them speak up. Or quote someone outside of EGF who has.

YEEEES!!!!!!

Shinji's balls dropped in time!!!!

Wow, incredible chapter, I'd never thought that Sadamoto'd make this.

No need to download, theres at least 3 sites that im aware of where you can read all of the manga. And also I think mods get a bit shouty when it comes to links to filesharing/torrent sites.

Just throw 'evangelion manga stage #' into google. The sites I use have english translations so you might be waiting a bit of 85.

Can't wait to read the rest of this.

Okay, from what I've seen so far here, Shinji is coming in to save the day and succeeding so far through basically just demanding his mom get out of the bakelite. He then rushes into the battle and picks up a weapon.

Since the comparison has been brought up and is inevitable, how is this a million times better than what 2.0 did? Well, for one, he's not using neon deus ex machina shonen hero powers to make laser beams shoot out of the Eva's eye or to grow himself an AT field arm or anything like that. That's just the beginning, but one can proceed from there to see how this is far more gripping and interesting a diversion from the original material than the cartoonic technicolour comicbook show we got in the movie. Or at least that's one way of attempting to explain it to those who surely won't tolerate this.

In short: at least in this version of Shinji rushing in and saving the day (so it seems) it is at least being done in a plausible way and on the foundations of lengthy character development. In other words, superior storytelling.

Moving on from comparisons, what I really would hope most for here is for Shinji to get completely eviscerated by the Harpies the way Asuka was in EoE, then Seele has to use Asuka and Eva-02 for their Instrumentality thing. That would be the most interesting and rewarding take on this, aside from perhaps a total prevention of 3I which could also be quite interesting. I doubt we'll actually get either of those, but either way I'm definitely looking forward to more of Sadamoto's awesome and incredibly ridiculously underrated and assailed manga adaptation.

Seele00TextOnly wrote:what I really would hope most for here is for Shinji to get completely eviscerated by the Harpies the way Asuka was in EoE, then Seele has to use Asuka and Eva-02 for their Instrumentality thing.

That's what I'd like to see, given where we are now, but somehow I don't see Sadamoto putting Asuka at the centre of 3I, alas.