Shogo-Kun wrote:2. 1.11
3. End of Evangelion

OUCH.

For the love of god guys, I can't believe we're seriously having this argument. We're all big boys and girls here. I think we can handle some PG-13 language without freaking out about how it's "inappropriate". This is like a repeat of the forehead-smackingly retarded EoE F-bomb debate, and it's less stupid only by virtue of the fact that this movie isn't nearly as graphic and adult in tone as that one.

Also, I would actually agree with Shogo's list... wait, actually no, I would reverse it. The End of Evangelion dub still tears me apart, since it has the best and worst voice acting in the series all in the same movie. I would give it two spots on my list, top and bottom.

Meh... got nothing better to talk about.

gatotsu911 wrote:For the love of god guys, I can't believe we're seriously having this argument. We're all big boys and girls here. I think we can handle some PG-13 language without freaking out about how it's "inappropriate". This is like a repeat of the forehead-smackingly retarded EoE F-bomb debate, and it's less stupid only by virtue of the fact that this movie isn't nearly as graphic and adult in tone as that one.

Also, I would actually agree with Shogo's list... wait, actually no, I would reverse it. The End of Evangelion dub still tears me apart, since it has the best and worst voice acting in the series all in the same movie. I would give it two spots on my list, top and bottom.

Only one of us is freaking out because of how inappropriate he thinks it is >_>. A lot of you seem to forget everyone uses swear words now a days anyway so it shouldnt be a big deal if an anime uses them.

Eva 04 wrote:Only one of us is freaking out because of how inappropriate he thinks it is >_>. A lot of you seem to forget everyone uses swear words now a days anyway so it shouldnt be a big deal if an anime uses them.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Eva 04 wrote:Only one of us is freaking out because of how inappropriate he thinks it is >_>.

I can name two people, but I won't because I'm mysterious and controversial like that.

A lot of you seem to forget everyone uses swear words now a days anyway so it shouldn't be a big deal if an anime uses them.

You're goddamn motherfucking right. People want anime voice acting to sound more "natural", then freak out when dubs include naturalistic touches like (character-appropriate) swearing. What the fuck's up with that?

gatotsu911 wrote:You're goddamn motherfucking right. People want anime voice acting to sound more "natural", then freak out when dubs include naturalistic touches like (character-appropriate) swearing. What the fuck's up with that?

Unpleaseable Fanbase FTL....

No wait, you're right. It would've been much better if Mari instead said "Just rogering die!!"

the whole profanity thing is less of a "oh noes, they said cuss words!" issue and more of an issue of purists wanting the dubbers to stay "100% true to the original dialogue"


I guess that if PSG gets dubbed and they drop a lot of the profanity, people will cry foul much like here

GasmaskAvenger wrote:I guess that if PSG gets dubbed and they drop a lot of the profanity, people will cry foul much like here

Exactly. My issue is that I want people to watch Evangelion, not an abstraction of Evangelion. I realize not everything will translate properly, but there are obvious liberties that are taken time and time again with dubbing that blatantly alters the work.

GasmaskAvenger wrote:I guess that if PSG gets dubbed and they drop a lot of the profanity, people will cry foul much like here

That would be retarded if so because in the case of PSG, there's that much swearing IN the original dialogue anyway. Though personally I think the show being dubbed would take away from the hilarity of (Japanese) characters saying "fack!" and the like.

Anyway, regarding the clips Monkey put up, while I did feel Mari's swears were out of place (compared to the original, where she only says "sassy bastard!" and I think a "shit!" or "Oh, crap!"), I agree the context (a very stressful battle along with her overboard-Eva-pilot personality) does make them fit.

I personally would be more pissed if someone replaced the music with stock music (like watching EoE without "Kom, Susser Tod") or changed the animator or reordered sequences, because that's far more insulting than say...some altered lines here and there for either "more Americanized dialogue" (which seems to be a lot of purist's big no no for dubs) and/or drops a few profanity here and there (unless it devolves to something really ridiculous and overdone), but oh well

Funimation's Clip 5 is up! It's Asuka talking with Misato before the testing

'but what pervert designed this suit?'

Thats a good line. Id like to know if Grant came up with that one herself :P

As for swearing? Couldnt care less. Its a non-issue. General consensus seems to the be the dub's pretty good overall.

The Eva Monkey wrote:Exactly. My issue is that I want people to watch Evangelion, not an abstraction of Evangelion. I realize not everything will translate properly, but there are obvious liberties that are taken time and time again with dubbing that blatantly alters the work.

But you've already SEEN Evangelion. You saw the subtitled version. For me, when I'm watching something dubbed, I want that to be an adaptation. I want it to preserve the intent of the original as much as possible, and if preserving (or even furthering!) the intent means altering the wording, I'm okay with that. When asked to share his opinions on the dubbing of his works, one of my favorite anime directors, Mamoru Oshii, once said, "A true translation is an illusion." No matter how you translate something, you will almost inevitably lose some bit of meaning or context that the author intended to be apparent to viewers in his/her native language. The question, therefore, is between translations that preserve the words ("translation") as they are written and translations that attempt to preserve the intent and mood behind the words ("localization"). With only a few exceptions, I tend to prefer the latter. If I want to get the Very Literal Translation, that's what, I think, subtitles and/or translators' notes are for.

I know I may risk crucifixion and/or stoning by bringing this up, but a certain highly controversial writer/ADR director/voice actor once said, and I quote:

I always tried to stay as close to the original intent as I could, so therefore if a teenage character's line is literally translated as "I will defeat you" then I would change it to "I'm gonna kick your ass!" To me, that is truer to the spirit of the original Japanese than the literal translation.

While I'm aware that this individual has on several occasions taken this approach too far, the underlying philosophy is one that I fundamentally agree with. Another person involved in translation of Japanese media, Richard Honeywood (former translator for Squaresoft - back when they were called Squaresoft) once said something to the effect of "If a localization is good enough, you'll never know that it wasn't originally written in your language." That's the kind of localization I like.

Really though, I could go on about translation philosophy all day. As a fan of foreign media, it's something I've thought about a lot.

[/srsbusiness]

I hope not!

gatotsu911 wrote:I know I may risk crucifixion and/or stoning by bringing this up, but a certain highly controversial writer/ADR director/voice actor once said, and I quote (snip)

To nitpick, because I can, "I will defeat you" would be perfectly appropriate if said teenager was, e.g., using highly articulated language, and perhaps emphasizing their confidence. ("Oh, don't worry. I will defeat you.") "I'll kick your ass" would be totally appropriate if they were slurring their words and peppering things up with an emphatic ending particle or two and doing other things to... uh... "deformalize" their language.

Can't really respond to that in detail, because the original example is so vague and hypothetical that it's sort of pointless to read much into the specifics of it. But generally speaking, yes, I do agree with you, if there's a good reason for a character to be speaking formally, that's obviously an exception that should be reflected in a translation. Localization should stay true to the characters (as it should stay true to the intent), unless there's an exceedingly good reason not to.

Incidentally, while we're talking about translation philosophy, I might as well leave this here: http://matt-thorn.com/wordpress/?p=407

From what I understand (which is admittedly little), English formality is less complicated (and less varied) than Japanese formality. When one uses a first name as opposed to the last is less complicated, for one. So a lot of these nuances of formality just aren't going to translate and, at worst, come off seeming bizarre to western viewers.

Did anyone else notice Rei's dub changing threw out 2.22? It was like 1.11 in the early parts of the movie but once Zeruel showed up it became some what more different, is the best way I can put it.

She was more emotional at that point, maybe that's it.