Let's say the core is a yoni or womb when the EVAs stand in as symbols for the moms within them, and a heart when they are used as extensions of the pilots, like in the Ayanami rescue scene.

...Aww, so Rei was literally claiming her place in Shinji's heart. I would now keep admiring the cuteness if that waterflea-like drawning doing the heart emphasis wasn't so creepy...
This was such a nice romantic scene, and now, I can't unsee the creepy blood vessel thing! I guess that's the price I have to pay for another S/R hint...

I can't decide whether this is incredibly romantic or EoE levels of creepy...

---

And as for the Asuka/Episode 10 thing, life/fertility/sexuality is one of her most important attributes in old NGE/EoE(It's subtler in Rebuild, but there's her defense of eating meat, the revealing clothes etc... it's still there), so it probably IS important, expecially since ep 10 is the episode where she

a) falls in love (Her actions in episode 9 were more motivated by loneliness and ended with recognizing Shinji as a worthy battle comerade, the proper LUV comes in 10)

b) It's also one of the few times where she accepts being protected/helped.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:LOL Why are the metaphoric visual representations of the female sexual anatomy decidedly more complicated than the metaphoric visual representations of the male sexual anatomy?

Errr, because female sexual anatomy is decidedly more complicated than the male sexual anatomy to begin with. Anything long and straight = ha!penis. This isn't the case with, uhhh, yoni.

Xard wrote:I didn't mean the swing though. WTF

I thought that's what we were talking about...

Xard wrote:And the swing doesn't look like a [s]inferior feminine minipenis[/s] clit either.

The swing alone doesn't, but the upturned-V shape of the swing suggests a vulva with a clit.

Xard wrote:what?

Would you expect a message board with "geeks" in the title NOT to be obsessed with vaginas?

BornIn1142 wrote:The suggestion of the female body shape and symbolic womb there are all well and good, but am I the only one who can't unsee the goddamn SMILEY FACE?!

Why did you have to mention that?! Now I cannot unsee! D:

Kendrix wrote:Let's say the core is a yoni or womb when the EVAs stand in as symbols for the moms within them, and a heart when they are used as extensions of the pilots, like in the Ayanami rescue scene.

Since it's the Eva's literal Heart of Meat that's being emphasized to the point of glowing like a beacon, in what way does the Eva's core represent a heart in that scene?

This was such a nice romantic scene, and now, I can't unsee the creepy blood vessel thing! I guess that's the price I have to pay for another S/R hint...

I live to please.

I can't decide whether this is incredibly romantic or EoE levels of creepy...

TBH, the whole "Tsubasa" scene has given me a major case of the creeps ever since I got past the initial shock of how saccharine it seemed. And I don't get the goosebumps easily.

I think this is a bit too forced here, there's too much to draw in.

A lot of my lines weren't necessary. I could likely simplify the diagram greatly without losing any significant information.

Jimbo wrote:Would you expect a message board with "geeks" in the title NOT to be obsessed with vaginas?

Forget "geeks" -- most humans have a keen interest in the mysterious pelvic passage from a young age.

Reichu wrote:Forget "geeks" -- most humans have a keen interest in the mysterious pelvic passage from a young age.

Too true, but it probably takes geeks to point "yoni" out in an anime. ;)

The heart is pretty much where the core is, I think the yellow dot in the concept illustration might even be the core - also, the core is generally located where a human's heart would be and it fullfils the heart's role as "what you at first glance associate with a vital spot".

--

In another note, when EVA 01's core emerges in EoE, the flesh parts in a way that resembles female genitals:


The core then moves outwards like the head of a baby that is being born. There is LCL(= amniotic fluid) spraying outwards.

Kendrix wrote:The heart is pretty much where the core is, I think the yellow dot in the concept illustration might even be the core - also, the core is generally located where a human's heart would be and it fullfils the heart's role as "what you at first glance associate with a vital spot".

The dot just indicates the placement of the streaming light (to be added later in production). Also, the glowing heart and the core really are two different things.

In another note, when EVA 01's core emerges in EoE, the flesh parts in a way that resembles female genitals:

That's a nice one, isn't it? Here are the pics I had lying around -- they're a bit clearer.

- Annotated, slowed-down animation.
- I'm so glad Groundwork included this.

You already said most of what needs to be said.


I guess I might as well post these ones, too.

Eye being birthed:



And... yeah.



Why correlate eye sockets with vulvae? Well, eyes are "mirror to the soul"... Freaky's ideas seem like a good fit.

Reichu wrote:- I'm so glad Groundwork included this.

My new wallpaper, which I find odd since I usually don't go in this visual territory AT ALL. I just think the line work is very ornate and beautiful.

Wow, the core-bithing Vagina even has a clitoris! I didn't notice.

...It#s probsbly less "eye sockets" being equated with vulvae, but the Evas/the windows to the souls of the EVAs (= mothers, who, well, give birth)

Anno really needed to get laid in 1997

Yuko Miyamura doesn't count

Reichu wrote:- Annotated, slowed-down animation.
- I'm so glad Groundwork included this.

You already said most of what needs to be said.


I guess I might as well post these ones, too.

Eye being birthed:

Observations:
Two clits in Groundwork but only one in the animation....(or just because we did not see the lower part?)
and no clit in eyes being birthed...

Wonder any reason behind these...

symbv wrote:Two clits in Groundwork but only one in the animation....(or just because we did not see the lower part?)

When animation is actually drawn, it shows more than what ends up on screen. The orb on the bottom was cropped off, is all.

My first thought was that it's not a second clitoris, but meant to emulate an anus. To "complete the picture".

and no clit in eyes being birthed...

The Eva-01 eye was aired on TV, so that's probably why. As for Eva-02... I dunno. It seems like it would have been easy enough to add a clitoris-looking tear duct or something.

@Kendrix: The clitoris is still there when Yui has sex with the Spear, too.

And well-put, re: symbolic relevance of eye-vulvae. I suppose GNR's third eye could be considered an extension of this motif (among other things).

Well, it's not enough just to find the symbols, tough. They're there for a reason ^^
I'd rather equate GNR's head/hand vulvae with Instrumentality being a return to the womb (= the state where you're not separate from others).
You get out of the womb through a vagina, so you should logically get back in through one. XD

....Of course, a bit of mother-ness still remains...


Oh, and about the woman with the mountain boobs (I still don't see any in the other pic), as I understand it, this one means that a) all of this is taking place within Yui (Shinji has liquified at this point, the background woman is about EVA-Sized) and b) He's seen being depressed about not having a mom, but his mom was there all the time, in the "background" of EVA 01, he just didn't notice c) Not just his mother, women were all around him. Three of them, all willing for intercourse! His self-hatred merely didn't allow him to see the women/ believe that others could be in love with him. He's lonely, yearning for a woman/mother, but there's one filling the landscape. He isn't as hated as he thinks he is...
Of course, that scene has many other meanings, it's a bit of Shinji's memories mixed with his general life, and his relatiionship with Gendo, but this is the part of the interpretation that concerns the yoni. (The Pyramid! Compare with Rebuild Pyramide stomping. The pyramid is both the Shinji/Gendo relationship and, of course, the nerv pyramid - can't be from Shinji's memory because - since when do kids build pyramids? Building things = creating things, workig hard. He was all alone and had no home, so he worked as much as he could tu build himself one/gradually built a relationship with Gendo. But in the end, he was still alone (=episode 18/19 happened), Shinji gave up on his father/destroyed what little progress they had made. He also quit nerv/left the world he built for himself. But he was still alone after that and pathetically tried to fix what he destroyed himself)

As for the precipice, I still think it's just an ordinary precipice that means what precipices usually mean, but IF there was a vulva, it would be a continuation of the upper motif (Little, motherless Shinji failing to notice the mother in the background.)

The episode 10 bit is about Asuka comming one step closer to accepting womanhood - she enters a womb here which is a dangerous place since she fears fertility/motherness/live giving in a way - She wants to be "the seductress", but this is a childish wish of a child not to be a child - she has to grow up into a live-giver, (which she ultimatively does in EoE, if in an abstract way - She puts on the red again and fights for her will to live. Rebuild makes her become an adult by sexual presentation/teasing (the bikini) in a different way)but she's afraid of being like her mom.
In the beginning, she is seen flirting with Kaji (object to satisfy childish wishes), in the end, she falls in love with Shinji (genuine love interest)
Asuka ventures into a womb and fights a vagina dentata (Sandalphons mouth. A scary woman. Sandalphon is also a developing baby which ties into Asuka's wish not to have children/not to become like her mother.These are her mommy issues.)
Istead of following her childish protection mechanism, her "I have to stand alone" complex, she accepts the idea Shinji gives her (instead of telling him to shut up and that she doesn't need help) and defeats the symbolical mommy issues.
This allows Shinji to get close to her, now that her childish pride isn't stopping him anymore, so he can save her (In jumping into the volcano, he, of course, being male, penetrates it/exerts male power over it/helps Asuka defeat it) - like the vulnerable, hidden part of hers actually wants it. She wants to be protected, she IS protected, and so, she falls in love and is able to get born/detaxch herself a bit from the mother (= leave the volcano) to take her place at the side of a man.
her past, which gives all of this meaning, is alluded at at the end.
This is part of the positive developement Asuka shows during the action arc (From "lone fighter" towards teamwork) and completes the 3 episodes in which Asuka learns to accept Shinji... for now.
As we know, a setback is waiting for poor Asuka.

Asuka's fight against the vulva-ed Rebuild!Sahaquiel could be a substitute for this - in fact, just like the volcano incident, the Rebuild!Sahaquiel battle results in Asuka accepting/falling in love with Shinji! *feels a bit wiser now* I didn't think this thread would actually enlighten me. Thanks, everyone!

So, on to the next yoni: the core birthing - The core is birthed to start TI - maybe it is meant to be the child of Shinji's despair/ his despair "comming to fruition"?
Lance and core sex results in three of life = a life giving entity. Metaphorical conception, that's all.

Now, what is left? Yes, the navel yoni.
Gendo being connected to Rei III at the navel means he's her creator, her getting rid of him is her becomming independent.
It's some sort of vagina dentata without teeth, she's swallowing what he's penetrating her with, taking away his "power" (Adam)
She is also acting like the mythological lillith here, refusing to obey a man (Adam - or the guy posessing adam, here) and simply flying away -> Rei III accepting Lillith/Taking the identity of Lillith.
and there's another thing:

Lillith's flesh closes behind Rei like a Vagina Dentata! With LITERAL teeth this time.
My interpretation:
a) Rei's "swallowing vulva" lacked teeth, this one has them. What this means depends on how you interpret Rei. Possibility 1: Lillith is the "real thing", she has teeth because she's the original - Rei's swallowing vulva was just a copy. Possibility 2: Rei's status as an "imcomplete"(=infertile) woman (lacking teeth) is now fixed as she rejoined her other half. Possibility 3: a simple contrast between "fertile"(=powerful = with teeth) and "infertile"
b) Going into a vagina means Rei is returning to her origins. In NGE, this is seldom the right path.
c) Teeth mean that there's something destructive about the merging - Rei's identity as Rei is lost/destroyed by these teeth.

So, what do you you guys think of my interpretations?

...Oh, and of course, Rei merging with the heart (Romantic love!) rather than the core (womb) might indicate that she and Shinji did not go the wrong way, but overcame the oedipus thing like I suggested earlier - they no longer want their mother/father figure (Rei: Player switched for glasses, Shinji: This time, he doesn't wait for Yui to save him, but acts on his own) but someone LIKE their mother/father figure from the outside world (Shinji is a bit like Gendo and Rei is a bit like Yui, but they AREN't Gendo/Yui. Also, Shinji entered this path after being reprimanded by his father ("Shinji, grow up. Nothing can be done without sacrifices") much like in the freudian modell. The song in the background is about breaking free, the dialogue is about breaking free, it's about leaving the "inside world" of the family (for Rei: angel interior, for Shinji: the shelter) and entering the outside world where you can get spouses.
Of course, near TI is just one big act of symbolic sex. Ritsuko even talks about "the birth of a new lifeform".

Reichu wrote:- Annotated, slowed-down animation.
- I'm so glad Groundwork included this.

My favorite one right here.

Along with the Spear about to enter Eva-01's core.
Speaking of which, the dub didn't have her moaning beforehand, did it?

Sanctus Scorpius wrote:My favorite one right here.

Along with the Spear about to enter Eva-01's core.
Speaking of which, the dub didn't have her moaning beforehand, did it?

The dub cut out a lot of the sound effects, those groans included.

Your post does ol' Reichu proud, Kenchen! You found the hidden vagina dentata, and spotted the umbilical cord symbolism of the hungry navel, too! :applause:

I don't agree with everything, but your analyses are very interesting to read. [/Fuyu] For a Rei fan, you're pretty cool. jk, jk

Re: GNR's 3rd eye, I didn't intend to suggest that it stands for ONE thing in particular. Of the various allusions it does feature, the "eyes are the window to motherhood" thing we see with the Evas seems like it might as well be one of them. :p

Something you may find interesting is that the "mama" in the sandbox sequence is Misato. For reals. (Confirmed via script, too.)

The episode 10 bit is about Asuka comming one step closer to accepting womanhood

By episode 10, has it even been suggested that she's having trouble accepting womanhood?

Asuka ventures into a womb and fights a vagina dentata (Sandalphons mouth. A scary woman. Sandalphon is also a developing baby which ties into Asuka's wish not to have children/not to become like her mother.These are her mommy issues.)

I noticed that Sandalphon's "attack" consisted mainly of grabbing Eva-02 and sucking on the helmet. (The script also seems to imply that the leg-severing was due to a blasting bolt going off -- i.e., an accident?) I've suspected that Sandy, being our "baby" Angel, basically latched onto Eva-02 as a "mother"... perhaps like a baby bird imprinting. So Sandy's first contact, the grabbing and sucking, is nothing less than a metaphor for an attempt to breast-feed.

But poor Sandy gets pierced through the soul with a [s]clotheshanger[/s] prog knife... MOMMY, HOW COULD YOU?

She is also acting like the mythological lillith here, refusing to obey a man (Adam - or the guy posessing adam, here) and simply flying away -> Rei III accepting Lillith/Taking the identity of Lillith.

I never made the "flying away" connection... Nifty.

Lillith's flesh closes behind Rei like a Vagina Dentata! With LITERAL teeth this time.

Glorious, isn't it? Now that it's been uncovered, I can pull out my archival stuff.

Still
Animation

I haven't given much thought to the interpretation of it, beyond the obvious "return to the womb" bit. Your suggestions a)2+3 and and c) are interesting.

...Oh, and of course, Rei merging with the heart (Romantic love!) rather than the core (womb) might indicate that she and Shinji did not go the wrong way

I think it's too soon to make any judgments about "wrong way" or not, and this probably isn't the right thread for that anyway (yes, partly my fault for nursing the tangent!), though, on-topic: has there even been any significant intimation in NME so far of a core-womb connection? The whole Eva=Mother element has been (IMO depressingly) minimized to the point of being -- in comparison to NGE -- almost absent.

The interpretation of Ep.10 is kind of Freudian. I have not thought in that way before but it is an interesting interpretation.

For Rei III accepting Lillith/taking the identity of Lillith, I have seen similar analysis in some Japanese articles too. I think it is an interpretation that makes sense. Allusions of that scene could include a female rejecting a male / creation rejecting her creator, particularly his image that she is his path to his ideal female (Yui) / Lillith rejecting Adam (but took away his core/soul. The fact that she would took away his whole hand made the allusion to a vagina dentata even stronger.

Reichu wrote:Glorious, isn't it? Now that it's been uncovered, I can pull out my archival stuff.

Still
Animation

I haven't given much thought to the interpretation of it, beyond the obvious "return to the womb" bit. Your suggestions a)2+3 and and c) are interesting.

That was one fine observation here and the a-c interpretations all have their merits. One thing I noticed though is how the vagina dentata appeared only AFTER Rei was absorbed not before. So I can think of yet another interpretation after a-c: d) Full power of Lillith was developed only after it took in Rei and Adam and fully incorporated them.

The Geo-Front...

I get all excited just looking at it.

looking at the lillith-yoni in slo-mo, I not only notice the clitoris you found, but also that it becomes an errect nipple to welcome Rei at first...
Boobies are also quite predominant in EoE.

And yeah, I noticed before that it's Misato - perhjaps Shinji's brain filled out some hazy Memory with a face he'd connect to a "mother". (He doesn't see Yui's untill the end of this movie, so Misato's probably the first mom he'd think of - maybe it's also meant to show how Misato and him failed to get close to each other, or how she couldn't replace Yui because she, while being a motherly individual, isn't Shinji's mother... dunno, one of these.)

Note that she's wearing a very un-Misato-ish outfit, it's a "stereotypic housewife" look and no close up of her face (Misato's clothes usually say "Slob" or "competent female" - She's the only EVA girl to ever war trousers, not counting Asuka's ultra short shorts.) - Misato might just be standing in for the concept of a mother here, tough there also are the other possibilities mentioned above.

As for the episode 10 Freud bits, well, Anno was inspired by pschology books, so it's possible.
Asuka has untill that point, only shown a few hints of her inner troubles, but that doesn't mean they can't be alluded to - Much of Asuka's behavior isn't explicable by explanations other than "She's just an asshole" before her backstory and inner mechanics are revealed, but the symbolism wouldn't be the only thing to "click into place" after the reveal/upon the first rewatching - there are more obvious things like her strong reaction to seeing Rei suceed at moving in unison with Shinji, her crying "Mama" usw... Mommy issues were alluded to in ep 9, and in the next episode, she's jumping into a lava vagina - it's not too far-fetched to make a connection, i think, expecially with the way EVA uses "submerged in liquid"-symbolism...
I didn't notice the "breatsfeeding" connection, but it would fit perfectly into my "fear of baby/becomming like mommy" theory...Tanks!

This is the more thoughtprovoking and insightful than any other thread I've seen here. I propose a move to the Discussion forum.