Interesting little details in 2.XX

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Aozora » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:00 pm

View Original PostJinroh wrote:Something's wrong with that shot, she has no butt.

It's just her skirt covering her. She's wearing some gear that wraps around her skirt and between the legs.

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:43 pm

...The weird thing is, they do show ppls panties when they did not really need to, but when Mari bends to pick op her glasses, her butt is magically covered by her skirt, defying the laws of physics.
I cannot understand this incomprehenlible paradoxon.
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Postby Azathoth » Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:59 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:...The weird thing is, they do show ppls panties when they did not really need to, but when Mari bends to pick op her glasses, her butt is magically covered by her skirt, defying the laws of physics.
I cannot understand this incomprehenlible paradoxon.


The showing of pantsu ruins zettai ryouiki
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:52 pm

View Original PostKendrix wrote:...The weird thing is, they do show ppls panties when they did not really need to, but when Mari bends to pick op her glasses, her butt is magically covered by her skirt, defying the laws of physics.
I cannot understand this incomprehenlible paradoxon.

I'm gonna argue that the tone in which characters are seen in their undergarments give light to a visual motif, painting the characters to be vulnerable to the other characters in the film. Asuka and Shinji's bed scene comes to mind in supporting this interpretation of the clothing motif, which has been transplanted from the events of episode 7 and placed in Rebuild (and completely forgetting everything else about episode 7).

I should have a more detailed look into the various color and clothing motifs in my comparative analysis, which should be completed about one week after the official DVD release.
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Postby Azathoth » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:55 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Asuka and Shinji's bed scene comes to mind in supporting this interpretation of the clothing motif, which has been transplanted from the events of episode 7 and placed in Rebuild (and completely forgetting everything else about episode 7).


9. 7 is Jet Alone.

I do think you're to some extent correct, but in Mari's case I'm still going to say that the maintenance of her zettai ryouiki is the most important thing. Although given what the term "zettai ryouiki" originates from - who knows, maybe there actually is a purpose to that besides sex appeal.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Wed Feb 16, 2011 11:28 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:9. 7 is Jet Alone.

I know the Shinji + Asuka stuff was episode 9. But it was the Jet Alone episode that introduced the themes of clothing as a motif, what with all of Misato's outfits for different event/appearances and Shinji's complaining about one of Misato's "sides". That clothing motif was just introduced in 2.0 with the Shinji + Asuka scene seeing as how the whole Jet Alone episode is not in Rebuild to introduce that motif for the viewer.

I guess I just wasn't that clear in my last post.

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:I do think you're to some extent correct, but in Mari's case I'm still going to say that the maintenance of her zettai ryouiki is the most important thing. Although given what the term "zettai ryouiki" originates from - who knows, maybe there actually is a purpose to that besides sex appeal.

Well, yeah. That is a factor. I was just focusing on Asuka's part of it. Mari is a weird character anyway, and at this point I'm not gonna even try to guess what she's all about symbolically, metaphorically, or anything like that. With the exception of the opening scene, I really just saw her a build-up to 3.0. So I'll wait until then before trying to read too much of anything into her.

I did find it interesting that "Zettai Ryouiki" literally translates into "Absolute Territory". That's really odd since all it really refers to in most cases is that bit of feminine thigh that shows between really long socks and a skirt.
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Postby Kendrix » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:34 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:I'm gonna argue that the tone in which characters are seen in their undergarments give light to a visual motif, painting the characters to be vulnerable to the other characters in the film. Asuka and Shinji's bed scene comes to mind in supporting this interpretation of the clothing motif,.


This is very possible. Soryu wore shorts in that scene. Yes, they didn't need to worry about authorities anymore, but they could've given Soryu just panties if they hadn't focused the camera on her crotch.
if you weren't distracted by her privates or the aweesome green stripes on her underwear (I want underwear like that!), you might have noticed that her feet were almost hugging each other as if she wanted to supply herself with the touch she was longing for. It reflects her state of mind so well (the foot movement, not the underwear - the stripes mighht represent Asuka being still somehow a kid inside)

Both scenes are powerful contrasts to each other - of course, they're bound to be different, since NGE!Shinji fancied Asuka, while Rebuild!Shinji didn't, and the Rebuild!Sleepover happened way later in Asuka's character arc, more the equivalent of episode 12 or even 15. but this isn't the main point - you see, one of the problems in Soryu's and NGE Shinji's relationship was the lack of mutual respect that eventually led to either them not getting together in the run of the show (The triangle remains unresolved in EoTV), or the fest of mutual disrespect and hurt they unleashed on each other in EoE despite evident mutual feelings and the (from Asuka's POV) hypothenuse of the love triangle, Rei II, having kicked the bucket.

That lack of respect and the tension created by unsaid things (This includes UST) is shown through the way Shinji and Asuka interact.
You can pretty much assume that NGE Asuka was also tossing around in bed, complaining about how she has always been alone and how solitude isn't suposed to bother her, but what happens afterwards is comparable to the bench scene from ep 9 or somewhere between the teamwork battles from the latter episodes - Asuka acomplishing Shinji as a brother-in-arms.
Soryu never transforms as much as Shikinami (which is why she falls back into her old patterns - or course, we don't know what fate has in store for Shikinami yet...)
NGE Asuka and NGE Shinji obviously feel drawn to each other (Asuka lays herself down next to Shinji, Shinji tries to kiss herr) but they show little respect for each other, each others consent and private sphere.
they intrude into each other's intimacy without thinking about whether the other wants it (They had to assume that the other would not like to be kissed/ awaken to find someone else besides them), they USE each other.
Asuka wants Shinjis closeness and Shinji wants Asuka's kiss, but without 'earning' them. (In a weird way, the EoE masturbation scene looks like a continuation of this... In both scenes, Shinji wants streght from the 'strong, determined seductress' Asuka, but is confronted by 'Asuka the child'. He wanted to claim a real woman, to get what that woman would tease him with but never give him. In ep 9, he distances himself upon seeing 'the child', she loses her sexual attraction (until she buys that bikini, that is). In EoE, Shinji is so desperate that he cannot take it any more, and takes the sexual pleasure from the 'vulnerable child'. That he didn't touch HER and regretted it immediately is a sighn that the Shinji we know is still somewhere in there/redeemable, and indeed, he aborts third impact)
Asuka, on the other hand is 'offering herself up'.
She prides herself of her feminine assets and deliberately teases others with them, to convice herself that she is 'adult'. IN fact, she is acting like an immature teenager and not yet ready for the consequences of fertility/sexuality (children, menstruation, the mother/life giverr within herself - she does not want to be like her own mother/grow from'the child' into 'the mother', because she wants to be a 'seductress', the oposite of 'mother' (If this intrests you, you should read my essay on female roles in NGe, it's in one of the mari threads i think))
'Offering herself' in a sexual way is clasical Asuka behavior - she puts her breats into Shinjis face(ep 10), wears revealing clothes, don't make me mention Kaji, she lets hinji and her milion fanboys from ep 9 look, but never touch.
Shikinami also has this trait - We never forget that she is a sexual character, this is accented by the fanservice. She practically puts her CROTCH into Shinji's face after kicking him down upon their first meeting, she kicks him for being a pervert, but in doing so, exposes her genitals to him which he wouldn't have seen all that much of if she had kept her legs close together.
Soryu puts herself next to Shinji, with her boobs very visible, their heads almost touching.
Now look at what Shikinami does - She tells him not to look at her! Yes, she is in her underwear, and he doesn't want him to see that. - and Shinji complies, and adresses her as "Shikinami-san", he, too shows RESPECT. (he was heard using just "Shikinami" when she appeared in the Katsuragi apartment)
They are both fully consent and fully awake, and Asuka doesn't want to 'tease' or 'provoke' him - she doesn't use him for her quest to look adult by teasing him with her sexual attributes (It is really about not using her to feel superior - Shikinami HAS romantic feelings for ReShinji, it's not that she doesn't want him)
As a result, the Rebuild!Sleepover has less sexual components, but the two of them are actually properly touching, their entire backs warming each other's. This time, they don't look up or down on each other, they become equals (The first Names! Yes, the 'baka' is still there, but the movies aren't over and it's more of an affectionate nickname now) and exchange deep thoughts.
As suggested by them properly touching, they really CONNECT this time, and learn about each other, it goes further: hen Shinji reveals his wish to impress Gendo, Asuka solemnly replies "Then you are really stupid".
She is thinking of her own experiences of trying to please a parent and beginning to revoke her way of life because she sees what similar goals did to Shinji (she calls it stupid and wants Shinji to refrain from similar stupidness - Yes, she is beginning to try to HELP him!)- NGE Shinji and Soryu both had similar experiences, but this meant that they were busy with their own issues and only hurt each other more - the oposite is happening with Shikinami here.
These are the Moments that start the developement that leads us to the pre-Bardiel-Incident phone conversation.

The little Details are VERY important in Rebuild, since the makers tried to put things they had more time for in the series into one or two very telling details.
this is expecially so with Asuka related details since they pressed episodes 8 to 25' into the first two thirds of the movie (as a comparision: episodes 8 to 19's worth of Shinji-related plot in the ENTIRE movie, ditto for Rei and episodes 9 to 23 (she doesn't do much in 7 and isn't in 8))
Intrestingly, they kept ALL Gendo-related important scenes (exept the ones from ep 11 because there's no way they could've pressed them in there - He even got new scenes!)

The "Shikinami and Nudity" theme continues throughout the movie: When she starts becoming jealous of Rei, she relapses into 'teasing' (only a bra and an apron while cooking), after the phone conversation/her 'enlightenment', she complains that her new plugsuit is 'too revealing' ( It covers about as much, or even more than the bra and the apron she deliberately put herself into, there IS a change here)

In both versions, Asuka reaches 'full bloom' in the end (only to be butchered/lose an eye right afterwards) - Rebuild shows us her better attitude and appreciation of other people, in EoE, the 'full bloom' is the battle against the harpies. Asuka embracing the giver of life within her, fighthing for her life, BEING alive until the very last moment. It's more abstract (but without a doubt, cool, tough I claim that giving up on Shinji was about as hard for her)
EoTV focussed mainly on Shinji, but Asuka's monologues contain the phrase of "not wanting to die" a lot.
In both cases, she is the "critical other" (contrast to Rei's "hope that ppl can understand each other"), tough EoTV Asuka occasionally supplies constructive criticism.
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Postby Ramiel² » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:46 pm

OT:Wall of text owned my brain.

Many good points on which i have to agree, but to draw conclusions i think we should better wait for the finals Rebuild. Anno just could to easily throw details like that over board for the Sake of an unexpected Ending whatsoever.

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Postby Kendrix » Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:04 pm

View Original PostRamiel² wrote:OT:Wall of text owned my brain.

Many good points on which i have to agree, but to draw conclusions i think we should better wait for the finals Rebuild. Anno just could to easily throw details like that over board for the Sake of an unexpected Ending whatsoever.


Uh, sorry. I got carried away.
Rebuild IS suposed to be everything before ep 24, they wanted to hhave the "hiomework" done to do new stuff in Q, so it isn't to early to compare teh Rebuilds with the old stuff.

Still, I can't wait for Q - The wonderful ep 24 - movie sized! and COMPLETELY NEW STUFF!
What I look most forward too is all five children interacting.
Kaworu never got to meet Asuka or Rei II (he says such intresting stuff about the ppl he meets), and him and Mari are so similar, yet so different...
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Postby John » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:13 pm

I think I've found another little detail:

SPOILER: Show
Image
Image


It's just the smoke.
At first I thought it was a small coincidence, but then I remember what Shinji said in NME after Hyuga's "Stop, Shinji-kun": "Don't say that, don't make me any angrier", exactly how he was getting angrier in EoE about the things Asuka was saying to him.
I couldn't get a gif of both scenes, but I think the resemblance is very obvious when you watch both scenes.
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Postby Sachi » Sat Mar 19, 2011 8:33 pm

I think you're grasping at straws with this one.
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Postby Marduk » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:06 pm

Image
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Postby Eva 04 » Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:28 pm

View Original PostJohn wrote:I think I've found another little detail:

SPOILER: Show
Image
Image


It's just the smoke.
At first I thought it was a small coincidence, but then I remember what Shinji said in NME after Hyuga's "Stop, Shinji-kun": "Don't say that, don't make me any angrier", exactly how he was getting angrier in EoE about the things Asuka was saying to him.
I couldn't get a gif of both scenes, but I think the resemblance is very obvious when you watch both scenes.


I dont see any resemblence at all.

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Mar 20, 2011 9:36 am

View Original PostEva 04 wrote:I dont see any resemblence at all.


Yup. It would make sense if the smoke clouds were the same shape, but they clearly aren't... Smoke is more likely to be there for TEH XPLOSIONS than for symbolism of any kind...
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Postby KnightmareX13 » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:05 pm

I apoligize for the poor quality of the screen shot
SPOILER: Show
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You would think that somewhere in Nerv's budget they would have cash to replace the old rotary dial phones with touch tones or something newer.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Mon Mar 21, 2011 8:16 pm

View Original PostKnightmareX13 wrote:I apoligize for the poor quality of the screen shot
SPOILER: Show
Image

You would think that somewhere in Nerv's budget they would have cash to replace the old rotary dial phones with touch tones or something newer.

I want a rotary phone like that. No. I want a rotary phone that extends from the wall and hangs out the window like in all those Buster Keaton comedy shorts.
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Postby Jayfive » Sun Apr 03, 2011 4:58 pm

The 'Misato at the window' scene when Kaji comes up behind Ritsuko.

The first couple of times I just assumed he put his arms around her but if im not mistaken he slips his hand inside her labcoat and gets himself a feel of some premium-grade science-boob.

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Postby Kendrix » Sun Apr 03, 2011 6:18 pm

View Original PostJayfive wrote:The 'Misato at the window' scene when Kaji comes up behind Ritsuko.

The first couple of times I just assumed he put his arms around her but if im not mistaken he slips his hand inside her labcoat and gets himself a feel of some premium-grade science-boob.


Holy shit, you're right!
Behold:
Image
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:16 pm

:hitthetable: I love how Ritsuko doesn't even flinch. No wonder Misato gets pissy at them.
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Postby NemZ » Sun Apr 03, 2011 9:03 pm

Actually that IS an interesting detail, but not just in the way you think. I checked to see if he blatantly copped a feel in the original (nope, it's more ambiguous just where his hands are wandering) and found that in the original Kaji says she's lost because of "an unrequited love", but in rebuild she responds that she's actually gained weight. The implications are intriguing, no?
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