[Music] Lady Gaga (Question)

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Postby AshPhoenix » Wed Mar 02, 2011 3:41 pm

Mr.Tines wrote:I do hope you're referring to this character.

JoJo's Bizarre Adventure? I was talking about the rapper... :tongue:

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What? He may look like a douche, but his music isn't that bad...
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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Wed Mar 02, 2011 6:43 pm

^either you are really pulling my leg well or you are a sad, strange little man and you have my pity

either way, I :lol:
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Postby AshPhoenix » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:55 pm

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Anyway. Back on topic. I just (kind of) remembered this, but didn't Lady GaGa make some songs before she actually called herself Lady GaGa? I think so. I haven't heard them myself, but supposedly they're pretty good.
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Postby schismatics » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:21 pm

View Original PostAshPhoenix wrote: but didn't Lady GaGa make some songs before she actually called herself Lady GaGa?


Yeah she did. I don't remember the songs but I remember that there was a lot less silly outfits.

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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:28 pm

She released an EP under the name Stefani Germanotta called Red & Blue that I thought was pretty meh. However, her live piano performances are simply wonderful, and these two early, pre-Fame songs are among the best. Gaga said she wanted "Born this Way" to become an anthem for a generation, but I think "Electric Kiss" is a much better candidate for that, and she wrote it over three years ago.
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Postby Eva 02 » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:26 pm

View Original PostEva Yojimbo wrote:Xard is entirely right in his posts towards Eva 02. Sorry man, but you're being a victim of the moment. Like most, you have a major case of selectivity bias when it comes to matching the best music of yesteryear with pop music as a whole today. He says "there are no bands like Led Zep today" but, man, are you clueless how badly Zeppelin were raped by critics when they came out? They were accused of stealing everything they did (up to IV, anyway) from blues 101 and folk, and the critics were pretty much right! Didn't make any difference since what they were doing was such a badass interpretation of classic blues that the mainstream overruled critics. You also seem to be ignoring the grunge spawned the wasteland that was alternative rock that came after them. Basically bands that could only play 3 chords in drop-d with every song in a pattern of acoustic/soft verse, loud/electric verse ala Smells Like Teen Spirit.

I don't know where you're getting that Lady Gaga "steals 70% of her music" from. Where did Poker Face come from? Paparazzi? I can think of no songs that sound like that, but maybe I'm just oblivious. And she only uses computer? Have you not seen any of her live acoustic performances? The girl can sing, regardless of what you say about her.

"Anyone who thinks Dimebag was the last guitar great clearly hasn't listened to a lot of music."

This times 1 billion. And Pantera were pretty lame. The first half of Cowboys From Hell and Vulgar Display of Power (and one or two songs off Driven) are the only good things they ever did. They came to the thrash scene way late on the backs of much better bands (many terribly underrated like Kreator, Testament, Annihilator, etc.) and after failing as a hair metal band. I'd take Lady Gaga over Pantera, and I'm a fucking metalhead!


This entire post literally makes me sick. How can anyone with any music aestheticism possibly say such musical heresy?

On the Zep issue... I think I kinda already acknowledged everything you said in my original post regarding Zep. They were the biggest thing in the world at that time, but my argument was that that was when actual extraordinarily talented individuals were justly at the helm of music. That is not the case today; my biggest qualm with Lady Gaga is her fame, if she was a nobody making the same generic sucky music, then who would give a fuck? I cannot turn on the radio or even enter a fucking store without being barraged by her songs on repeat or being physically surrounded by her crummy commercialization. Even the person I spend most of my time with, my gf, absolutely LOVES her. I cannot stand Gaga's perpetual presence in my life despite me doing everything I can to avoid her at all costs -- even not watching the Grammy's. And on the note where they said Zep stole music... The only true case of that is for Stairway to Heaven, where he borrowed the basic melody as a blueprint for his song, which was written in an informal beach party and evolved into something completely different. "Babe I'm Gunna Leave You" is my favorite Zep song, and it was written by another artist. But the woman who wrote it is a hippie and the original sounds so bad its like a joke. But yes, they did use blues blueprints for a lot of their early stuff. But guess what? That's the way rock n' roll works. For a specific genre, there's always a starting riff, a blueprint riff that you write songs based off. All blues sounds similar, because of this. But punk was the same way, grunge was an evolved version of the punk riff. Heavy metal, death metal, and black metal all have different but distinctive base riffs that the entire genre writes from. Apply this phenomenon to electronica, and its just stolen. Electronica does not require as much creativity, you just get lucky while playing around with buttons. When all a song is is drum beats, synthesizers, piano, and vocals, if you steal someone else's hook, add generic beats and generic piano background filler, there's absolutely no artistic value in it, just the ability to recycle past hits to capitalize on the previous success. THAT IS LADY GAGA. It is also Rhianna, more so, because Rhianna doesn't write anything. Gaga can and does at least write lyrics such as "I love cock" and "Fit as many guys into my holes," as primitive and risqué as they are.

On the grunge note, when I mentioned that after the initial success of grunge, music capitalists raped Seattle. So yes, there was the spark of Alt rock. But the thing is, the grunge bands that were mega-successful were also extremely talented individuals who had soul in the music and got their message across. They loved what they did, you can see it readily on youtube the pure FEELING that came with the music they played. Just watch Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, and Nirvana unplugged and you can feel the pain, the soul of the music. The shit that is missing from each and every hit that is generated nowadays.

Lady Gaga is mass-marketed hypnotism. Using sex as an advertising platform, she has all of you entranced. All of her "catchy-ness" is generic, recycled hooks. Believe me, my girlfriend LOVES Gaga, I have heard alllll of her music repeatedly, and have actually gone down the list and pointed out a stolen element in EVERY SINGLE ONE of her songs. Shall I seriously re-post the whosampledwho page? These are just the blatantly sampled/stolen directly music, not the stolen-and-adapted parts:

http://www.whosampled.com/artist/Lady%20Gaga/

There's even a woman saying she stole the soul of her daughter!!!

And I am not "stuck in the moment" or whatever generic non-sequitur Jimbo cranked out in defense. Do you realize Gaga's cluster of singles is among the best-selling singles of all time?? This is bad because most of them are 2009 or 2010, and it actually beats out in 1 year dozens of songs that have been selling since as early as 1948! So in one year she has sold more records than mega-supreme hits that have been around for 50~70 years!!!! Thats ridiculous; beating "Smells like Teen Spirit", "San Francisco", many Madonna songs etc... I'm just thrilled that Britney Spears even has that skank beat, but not for long.....

And now on to the true musical heresy. A so-called metal head that likes Gaga more than Pan-fucking-tera? I DARE you to physically say that in front of any ONE fellow metal head. Go to a random underground metal show and say that. I know what will happen, they will fucking annihilate anyone who says such trash. Even 14-year olds who are barely getting into metal will try their hardest to crush some skulls, because Pantera is legendary.

Anyone who doesn't say Dimebag is the best guitarist of 1990-2004 hasn't listened to a lot of Pantera. I guarantee none of you went to a show where Dime played, otherwise you could not say that. If you could see this man jam, see how much fun he has. He's not putting on a show, he's having some good goddamn fun jamming and letting his friends -- aka all of his fans -- watch. I'm not basing my claims over technical ability, number of hits, or any of that arbitrary shit. Just because you don't like how Phil's singing transformed is NO reason to say ANYTHING negative about Dime, because each and every one of his riffs was incredible. He was one of the most down to earth people ever. Loved having fun, and NOBODY has even a SINGLE story of him being a dick or douchebag. EVERYONE who has ever met him says he is a good human being, naturally. He was a good human being, an incredible composer, and he impacted the world of guitar playing immensely. Don't forget Pantera did Trendkill the 80's scene, inspired millions of guitarists to play music, he basically MADE Washburn guitars popular, and he has gotten almost every award guitar magazines offer.

Correction, he was the best guitar player AT AGE 17.

You are talking to a man who was inspired to play music by Dimebag, and I'm not even a guitarist. You're talking to a man who when he was murdered, I shed tears. My entire group of friends, after school that December 8th, 2004, crowded around a stereo and just sat and listened to his music, crying. 6 teenage boys, who cried uncontrollably no matter who was watching, because we had each been touched by Dime deep into our souls. Maybe its because none of you play music. When you feel the feeling of jamming in front of people and being in the zone, you understand. You tell when other musicians are in that zone, you can see it. So when you see someone who is so talented really enjoying what they do and are good at it, you feel inspired. Dime was all about being real, and never loosing that feeling and just going through the motions. I could care less about Gaga's "pretty voice" because the skank looks like she's just going through the motions while playing live.

How can you see this video and say he wasn't a unique musician?

How can you see this and not say he was a cool guy with unbelievable talent? (skip to 4:48 for the best part)

How can you watch this and say that he wasn't a GOD - having fun, loving life, having extreme inhuman shredding skills?!?!?!?!?

And how could you not feel ASHAMED of yourself for talking crap about one of the most beautiful human beings to EVER have lived, while watching Phil Anselmo talk about who he was, what he meant, and how the world is FOREVER changed by his death???????

So you say that there are better guitarists??? Prove it. Show me. If you can talk shit about the best guitarist of the past 20 years, then show me. If you have the balls to talk shit about Dime, watch ALL the videos I posted. Its a challenge. If you can still say you don't respect him as one of the greatest EVER, then I will never speak ill of Gaga on this thread again. If you can watch EVERY one of these videos and not have your mind completely changed, then you don't like music, just pretty sounds.

Look, Tony Iommi, Jimmy Page, Jerry Cantrell, Zakk Wylde, Mike McCready, Eddie Van Halen, Slash, Keith Richards.... All incredible guitarists, but they aren't doing anything special anymore. If Dime were alive, he would be cranking out music that would still get radio time. Damageplan was great, and he was writing material until he died. That's why music died in 2004.

I don't believe in it, but if there was a heaven, Dimebag Darrell is jamming with Jimi Hendrix, Randy Rhoads, Cliff Burton, and John Bonham. Maybe even Kieth Moon, too. :wink:
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Postby MugwumpHasNoLiver » Thu Mar 03, 2011 4:43 pm

Eva 02 wrote:A so-called metal head that likes Gaga more than Pan-fucking-tera? I DARE you to physically say that in front of any ONE fellow metal head. Go to a random underground metal show and say that. I know what will happen, they will fucking annihilate anyone who says such trash. Even 14-year olds who are barely getting into metal will try their hardest to crush some skulls, because Pantera is legendary.


Hold on, you're saying that these people are going to physically beat someone for not having the same taste in music? That's not something you should be proud of .
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Postby schismatics » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:18 am

View Original PostMugwumpHasNoLiver wrote:Hold on, you're saying that these people are going to physically beat someone for not having the same taste in music? That's not something you should be proud of .


Yeah this happens. A really solid band (Cynic) almost got boo-ed off the stage because they weren't BROOTAL enough (it was at a Meshuggah show oddly enough, you'd thing the people going to that sort of show would be more open to other types of music, but ehh I've been proven wrong).

Pantera was cool when I was getting into metal. But then again, that's when I thought stuff like The Black Dahlia Murder and Lamb of God was LEGENDARY.

Man, on the subject of metal, if you're still able to take a good chunk of seriously, more power to ya.

As for the whole "DIMEBAG=GOD" thing, just because a guy is talented and has a significant impact on things, doesn't mean ya have to like it. Like for example, I'm not all the big into the Beatles but I can't deny their effect on music. I don't know, this kinda gets into Guitarist-Worship territory, which (even as a guitarist) is something I've never really understood.

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Postby Merridian » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:23 am

Eva 02 wrote:*a lot of text and rage*
I think you need to chill out, man. I read your post and started to feel as though Gaga was about to cause a second Holocaust. Why don’t we put this in perspective? First off, pop music has always been something that catered to a lowest common denominator. Secondly, it sells because it produces something that people want to hear. Pop musicians aren’t evil conspirators who corrupt the minds of innocents on their own; they’re just taking advantage of pre-existing biases that are fed—in this day an age—largely by hyperactivity caused by a number of factors, not the least of which is the very internet I’m using to make this post. Just as Hendrix played memorable, solid, incredible music back in ’69, he was both feeding people what they wanted to hear while playing what he wanted to play. Gaga’s doing exactly the same thing, only to an even larger audience with even more access to media and resources. Have techniques changed? Has instrumentation changed? Has methodology changed? Sure, and there’s some credence to be found in the idea that sampling music is for losers, but artists have been sampling other people’s songs for decades, now. To claim that Gaga is somehow destroying pop music is an absurd thing to say; either one subscribes to the notion that pop music never was all it was cracked up to be in the first place, or one must admit that Gaga’s merely taking advantage of everything that makes pop music pop music. Those stances aren’t even contradictory, either.

We haven’t had rock & roll for decades. “Hard rock” fell victim to all the same repetitive nonsense that pop music has lavished in for ages, and heavy metal is so ubiquitous these days that it’d be ignorant to even try and call it “underground”. Thanks to the internet, anything is available to anyone at any time, junior-high kids in California can now listen to ten year old black metal albums which originally received 1000-print runs off a miniscule label in Norway, and if iTunes has the license for it, they can even do so legally. I could spout out names of bands most people hadn’t heard of before, but provided that anyone within hearing distance has access to a google search bar, the “underground” remains as open of a come-as-you-are place as any other pop music charade.

Eva 02 wrote: And now on to the true musical heresy. A so-called metal head that likes Gaga more than Pan-fucking-tera? I DARE you to physically say that in front of any ONE fellow metal head. Go to a random underground metal show and say that. I know what will happen, they will fucking annihilate anyone who says such trash. Even 14-year olds who are barely getting into metal will try their hardest to crush some skulls, because Pantera is legendary.
This kind of talk merely reinforces the stereotype that metalheads are insular, pretentious, elitist morons. Though you’re probably accurate in your description; I haven’t met any self-identified metalhead that admitted to enjoying that cursed pop music—despite the fact that metal is a form of pop music. Then again, most of the people I've met who listen to metal never identified themselves with metalheads, either.

I don't want to see this thread modnuked, so just take it easy. Gaga isn't Satan or Hitler, and everyone had all the same things to say about her as they did Marilyn Manson or Madonna--and now both of 'em are passé fossils already. You admire Dimebag a lot more than I ever will, seeing as how I’ve never liked Pantara and your splooging & links haven’t done anything to convince me as to why I should. That’s fine, I have my own musical idols and immovable pillars that deeply changed my life as well, so I’m in no position to criticize any love of this guy. But dropping Pantara in a thread about a media-manipulating Queen Bitch of muzaks didn’t make much sense in the first place.

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Postby schismatics » Fri Mar 04, 2011 12:33 am

^I'll second that post.

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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Fri Mar 04, 2011 1:20 am

View Original PostMerridian wrote:To claim that Gaga is somehow destroying pop music is an absurd thing to say; either one subscribes to the notion that pop music never was all it was cracked up to be in the first place, or one must admit that Gaga’s merely taking advantage of everything that makes pop music pop music. Those stances aren’t even contradictory, either.
perhaps, but it effectively announces that "yeah, I'm pretty much phoning it in" attitude and thus a reign of mediocrity ensues, which IMO guarantees a quick prelude to an inevitable demise

for example IMO, grunge did not even last a decade as a mainstream phenomenon for that reason, I would even go as far to argue that it is same reason that the rockabilly-type 1950's rock and roll did not make it to the Kennedy Administration, or that the folk and psychedelic music of the 1960's faded before the end of Nixon's first term, etc.
I could spout out names of bands most people hadn’t heard of before, but provided that anyone within hearing distance has access to a google search bar, the “underground” remains as open of a come-as-you-are place as any other pop music charade.
that is partially true, but the traditional forms of media in terms of broadcast television and physical materials (paper/print, optical discs, tapes, etc.) still have their audiences, and most consumers around the world by virtue of age and old habits for the time being hold on to that concept of "mainstream media" and its messages of conformity and no independent thinking
This kind of talk merely reinforces the stereotype that metalheads are insular, pretentious, elitist morons.
though I grant every genre has its elitist/purist wing, metal as a genre generally gets the short shift in popular regard
Dimebag/Pantera
IMO, the reason both of these two have the regard they do are because Dimebag is perceived as the last "guitar God", especially among the metalheads, and that Pantera is often considered the last "popular/mainstream" metal band before metal as a genre splintered into a thousand subgenres and other music genres like alternative rock, pop/country (Shania Twain, Garth Brooks, etc.), rap, and techno/dance pop took the place that metal had in popularity/"relevance" during the 1980's and early 1990's

furthermore, Dimebag's unfortunate "martyr" status has for better and for worse given him and Pantera infinitely more recognition than he and the group would have ever gotten had the successor Damageplan and even Phil Anselmo's side/solo projects been allowed by fate to live on their own merits
Gaga isn't Satan or Hitler
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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:26 am

View Original PostEva 02 wrote:My entire group of friends, after school that December 8th, 2004
Looks at date. Looks at profile information.

Once again we prove that the golden age of rock and roll is 14.

Meanwhile, let's return the thread to its notional topic about some other person whom I've only heard of through the interwebz.
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Postby child of Lilith » Fri Mar 04, 2011 3:41 am

There seems to be a great deal of hate for Lady Gaga in this thread. I personally enjoy some of her work.
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Postby JimJam! » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:08 am

To turn the topic a bit...
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3a0aAv7WYfE&feature=related[/url]

Government Hooker is simply magnificent and epic. I believe it's even better than Born this Way, though that have to wait before the whole song come out.[/url]

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Postby Xard » Fri Mar 04, 2011 8:32 am

View Original PostEva 02 wrote:And now on to the true musical heresy. A so-called metal head that likes Gaga more than Pan-fucking-tera? I DARE you to physically say that in front of any ONE fellow metal head. Go to a random underground metal show and say that. I know what will happen, they will fucking annihilate anyone who says such trash. Even 14-year olds who are barely getting into metal will try their hardest to crush some skulls, because Pantera is legendary.


this is textbook example of why metalheads are annoying faggots. :D

What gets me in this topic is especially HAL showcasing time and time again the kind of mentality when you discover Dad Rock as teenager and for a while nearly everything done after year X (for me it was 1980) fucking sucks. Now most people actually grow out of this kind of silly phase but it looks like that isn't case with everyone. Eva 02 does exactly same but for him the year is incredibly recent, 2004

View Original PostMr. Tines wrote:Looks at date. Looks at profile information.

Once again we prove that the golden age of rock and roll is 14.


:lol:

True that.

View Original Postchild of Lilith wrote:There seems to be a great deal of hate for Lady Gaga in this thread. I personally enjoy some of her work.


I really appreciate child of lilith's abilities to write cool, detached posts following hugeass meltdowns :lol:

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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Sat Mar 05, 2011 12:02 am

View Original PostXard wrote:What gets me in this topic is especially HAL showcasing time and time again the kind of mentality when you discover Dad Rock as teenager and for a while nearly everything done after year X (for me it was 1980) fucking sucks. Now most people actually grow out of this kind of silly phase but it looks like that isn't case with everyone. Eva 02 does exactly same but for him the year is incredibly recent, 2004
heh, well, I pretty much agree with the year 2004, and I solely blame this on the laziness of producers and "artists" alike by their wildly liberal use of the doomsday machine that is AutoTune

I mean even at some point the Yamaha DX7-powered synth and drum machine cheese of the mid-to-late 1980's faded into history, yet blind use of AutoTune does not want to just up and die already

I keep waiting and waiting and hoping for some kind of Day The AutoTune Died, or for some music act to be made that is so God awful that will kill off its popularity like these 'tards kind of did with 1980's "metal"

and I should note for the record that while most music produced today sucks IMO, not EVERYTHING sucks in recent music

Gorillaz caught me off guard and put together a great album out just this past year after their disappointing Demon Days (my GOD, it is a crime their kind of hip hop gets shouted down by well-connected, clownish, thuggish hacks like Eminem, Ludacris, T-Pain, etc.), Kings of Leon deserve FAR more love than they get from the mainstream public, Silversun Pickups have shown a lot of promise, one of the best pop songs I have EVAR heard was released in 2006 and no one outside indie clique circles have any idea such a gem even exists, and this song totally did not suck and deserved to be a bigger hit and regardless made a group like Coldplay look silly by comparison
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Postby Born of Lilith » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:37 am

If you've thoroughly explored other musical options and still honest to god like her music, then no, it isn't... but I don't understand the appeal. At all. I mean, I can enjoy brainless pop when it has solid, engaging melodies, playful lyrics, etc., but Lady Gaga's music just comes off as lifeless and completely uninspired trash to me.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:07 pm

Geez, look at the fuckstorm I caused. Seriously Eva 02, here's my advice: :chillpill: I'll address some of the more relevant points.

View Original PostEva 02 wrote:And on the note where they said Zep stole music... Apply this phenomenon to electronica, and its just stolen. Electronica does not require as much creativity, you just get lucky while playing around with buttons.
I'm sorry, but this whole section is made of massive fail. So you're saying that writing a blues riff based around a scale that's been pillaged and raped for a century-and-a-half (maybe longer) is more creative than working with modern technology to create new sounds, beats, textures, etc.? Really? I could pick up a guitar and churn out a blues lick in 5 seconds. Unless I use an auto-program on a synth or computer program I couldn't do this with electronica.

But, more importantly, the statement that all electronica is stolen, doesn't require much creativity, and is just "getting lucky while pushing buttons" is so ludicrously ignorant and false and I don't even know what to say. I'm not the biggest or most knowledgeable electronica fan, but anyone who's ever heard Kraftwerk, Brian Eno, Massive Attack, Autechre, Daft Punk, et al. would know better than to say such a thing. Like anything else in the arts, electronic music is just a platform, a palette, a canvas for artists to do something creative with. Since the arts have always been based on "stealing" from what came before to some extent (whether explicitly like sampling or implicitly like raping the blues scale) I don't see what difference it makes. But listen to something like Kraftwerk's Radioactivity and you can hear the roots of Gaga and most modern pop music based on electronic beats.

View Original PostEva 02 wrote:On the grunge note, when I mentioned that after the initial success of grunge, music capitalists raped Seattle.
Actually, music capitalists raped Seattle and created the initial success of Grunge. Nevermind was released on a major label and promoted with MTV, you know. I don't think they (record companies) planned on it blowing up like it did, but it was still definitely, at least partly, a calculated, manufactured success. Most major movements happen when record companies become aware of something having in the underground and pounce on it. The initial success just inspires more of them to do so.

As for them being talented, it's actually debatable. Nirvana were amateurs at their instruments, and Pearl Jam had the skills of a mediocre 70s hard rock band. The most genuinely talented individual to come out of the movement was Matt Cameron from Soundgarden, while everyone else got by on mostly selling an aesthetic, combining naval gazing depression with classic forms like metal (AIC), psychedelia (Soundgarden), classic rock (Pearl Jam), and punk (Nirvana). If you take away that angst-angle, none of these bands were really original, and I say that being a huge AIC and Soundgarden fan. But I used to frequent a guitar board where most of the most talented players looked at these bands and grunge as the downfall of music, citing that all the 80s hair bands, despite the silly style, at least could really play.

As far as feeling "soul", I don't know why that's a prerequisite for making great music. I feel no "soul" from Zeppelin, they were just cool dudes who turned out groovy grooves and inventive hard rock. Even those grunge bands I'm inclined to think that most of it was posturing. What did they have to be so depressed about? For Staley and Cobain, a lot of it was self-induced by their heroine addictions. If they'd stuck with cocaine maybe they'd been as carefree as the 80s hair bands (AIC actually was; they were a hair metal band before they "switched" to grunge. I'm sure that had nothing to do with hopping on a bandwagon, sure, it was all about soulful expression).

View Original PostEva 02 wrote:Lady Gaga is mass-marketed hypnotism.
Yeah, but it's being manipulated by Gaga herself. That's what makes her so friggin' brilliant. She is kinda the epitome of this technological, ADD age, finding ways to show people things that feel new and original in a time where we're inundated with media and images. Does she have me entranced? Yes, but I admit it! I can't watch her videos and look away. They're fascinating. The image she's created and continues to elaborate on, change, manipulate, etc. is quite unlike anything I've ever seen. Sure, Alice Cooper invented shock rock and Madonna pushed the envelope on sex, style, and the music video, but they look downright time next to Gaga's extravagance. Her videos look like what would happen if a Circus Sideshow and Vegas act exploded and landed on Broadway. I mean, it's imagery overload in the age of imagery overload, and that's friggin' impressive.

As for the music, yeah, I'm not as impressed, but I don't think it's particularly bad either. It's pretty standard electronic pop, but Merri's right in that you're making a mountain out of a molehill. Gaga isn't just a musical artist she's a visual artist who happens to make music. I don't see anything wrong with that. Usually, hybrid mediums/artists aren't as adept as those that simply concentrate on one aspect, and I can accept that. But, for the last time, she doesn't STEAL, she SAMPLES. This is an OLD practice, and you make it out like she uses samples in every single song and that those samples constitutes the entire song; this is hardly the case. A lot of sampling is mixed into the background and not even used as the main hook, melody, beat, etc.

Did you even check out the samples in that link? Here's the page for Poker Face. You know what Gaga samples? The part that goes "MaMaMaMa". Yeah, a <2 second clip that has nothing to do with either the beat or melody. Here's the one for Paparazzi. The sample doesn't even appear until 5 minutes into the song! Know what it is? A two note slide. Oh, you're right, what a thief! This is far more egregious than basing entire songs on a blues riff that's been done a gazillion times!

View Original PostEva 02 wrote:There's even a woman saying she stole the soul of her daughter!!!
I LOL'd.

View Original PostEva 02 wrote:And I am not "stuck in the moment" or whatever generic non-sequitur Jimbo cranked out in defense. Do you realize Gaga's cluster of singles is among the best-selling singles of all time??
Errr, you are stuck in the moment. Adults were saying in the 50s that rock & roll was going to result in the downfall of America's youth and the whole of Western Civilization. Guess what? We're still here. You're trying to make the same Armageddon case with Lady Gaga, who will just be another pimple on the collective ass of pop music in 40 years, no different than how we see disco now, probably.

I don't know what you think your link proves either. Are you telling me that every artist on that list has had some monumental impact on music as a whole? Hell Gaga's singles barely crack the top 30, Kesha and Black Eyed Peas are in the top 10! I mean, seriously, look at some of the best selling artists on the list: USA for Africa! The Ink Spots! Baccara! Village People! If anything, this is a list you DON'T want to be on if we're talking about having any artistic influence or longevity.

View Original PostEva 02 wrote:A so-called metal head that likes Gaga more than Pan-fucking-tera? I DARE you to physically say that in front of any ONE fellow metal head. Go to a random underground metal show and say that. I know what will happen, they will fucking annihilate anyone who says such trash.
Others have already addressed this, but that's why most metalheads are fucking morons and have given the genre such a bad name. I mean, right now there are two typical camps of metalheads: one is the classic "tough guy" that most associated with the music back in the day. They'd beat my ass, surely. Two is the more geeky/intellectual fans who have (for some reason) made metal an even more popular and respected genre. I obviously fall into the last group, and I'd feel comfortable stating this opinion around them since most of those types (Merridian's another such in this thread alone) are more open minded about music and art in general.

As for Pantera and Dimebag Darrel, I think you're suffering from a bad case of idolized hero worship and it's blinded you to how the band and guitarist are actually perceived. I had 20k posts on perhaps the largest guitar board on the internet called Harmony Central over about a 7 year period and the site was filled with all kinds of music fans and plenty of metalheads. Dimebag was respected, sure, and Pantera were reasonably well-liked, but you're really inflating their importance/influence. The thing about Pantera was that they came at the tail-end of the thrash movement. By that time, the sub-genre had already peaked with output from The Big Four of Metallica, Magedeth, Slayer, and Anthrax (I'd throw Testament in there as well), and death and black metal were just starting to hit their peak with the likes of Death of Emperor.

In one sense, Pantera WERE the Britney Spears/Lady Gaga of the metal world. They popularized it for mass audiences to an extent that even Metallica didn't. I have no idea why this happens, but I almost think it was a Johnny Come Lately effect where those that missed out on the initial thrash wave saw Pantera as a chance to "hop on board". Plus, Pantera spoke to the extroverted side of the angsty, depressed, 90s teenager who wanted an outlet for all their pent-up aggression that grunge wasn't quite good enough for.

But if I'm talking originality, creativity, technical skills, consistency, Pantera lags behind every major thrash band including some of the more unknowns like Kreator and Annihilator. Yes, I've heard every Pantera album and song post-Cowboys. Their two best albums, Cowboys from hell and Vulgar Display of Power have half-an-album each of good songs (the first half) and some blatant filler towards the end. Cowboys is flat-out bland and bad from Shattered on, while Vulgar is little better from No Good on. Their other albums are even spottier. Driven is where they tried to start out-heavying themselves instead of concentrating on writing memorable songs.

Dimebag was a good metal guitarist. That's about it. He's not even close to the best. Maybe he makes top 20. But my problem with him is the same as with Pantera; he wasn't doing anything even remotely new, innovative, unique, or all that interesting, and he certainly wasn't doing it consistently. I even used to play a lot of his stuff, and while I like a lot of it for the groove (especially Cowboys from Hell), most of it's pretty simple by metal standards. Give me Holy Wars (ungodly good riff, that; more demanding than anything Dime wrote), Hangar 18, Under a Glass Moon, The Philosopher, The Haunting, Moanjam (Dime even said his intro in Cemetary Gates was inspired by Ty Tabor from King's X), and that's just the tip of the iceberg for some of the more well-knowns. I'll take all of the guitarists from all of those bands over him. For a pure guitarist, Skolnick pwns Dime (and most metal guitarists, actually). He's one of the only metal guys to make a transition to jazz, and it's fascinating to watch him dissect the differences and similarities.

I mean, the link you gave me of Dime at 17 was pretty bad. Really sloppy, mostly just EVH ripoffs. There's nothing there I haven't seen from TONS of 17-year olds, and I've seen many, and much younger (see Sungha Jung), far better. Watching all of those videos, much like Merri, I don't see anything that changes my mind about him. I mean, the whole "feeling ashamed for talking crap about one of the most beautiful human beings..." line is silly. I didn't even talk BAD about him. I said nothing about him as a person. He was a cool dude from all I've seen/heard of him. All I'm saying is that as a metal guitarist he was pretty good but nothing special. I'm far from alone in thinking that. Yes, I watched every bit of all those links, and it strikes me that you mistake theatrics for good guitar playing. I mean, the third link ("say he wasn't a god") is mostly just showing off. The 1 minute solo is his running his hands up and down the fretboard, the next bit is him fucking with a whammy board. What in any of these clips, specifically, was supposed to impress me?

As for even better guitarists, ask Ornette, he'd probably be able to give you even more links than I could. Those I did provide were off the top of my head. Ask Merri, he could probably help out too.

And, for one final parting shot, it's telling that Pantera started life as a hair metal band. Dimebag was Diamond Darrel once upon a time and they released such classic albums as Metal Magic. :lol: I mean, it's not surprising since Dime's biggest influence was KISS, and they were always more show than substance too.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Xard » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:06 pm

Damn, when Jimbo writes posts like that even I can't help but give thumbs up :( >_<

:thumbsup:

View Original PostTHE Hal E. Burton 9000 wrote:
and I should note for the record that while most music produced today sucks IMO, not EVERYTHING sucks in recent music


but isn't this true for all eras?

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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sat Mar 05, 2011 5:08 pm

View Original PostXard wrote:Damn, when Jimbo writes posts like that even I can't help but give thumbs up
Wait... somebody grab a camera! I want to document this moment of Xard actually approving of something I wrote! I'm almost tempted to sig it.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James


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