Official Rebuild Dub Thread

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:31 pm

..... So Mari sounds EXACTLY like every other North American voice actress? Just raise your voice a little higher so it squeaks and call that a performance?

I don't listen to dubs because they're usually beyond awful and betray the very nature of the film. I don't watch German films dubbed in English, why should I watch anime films dubbed in English?

Anywho, it sounds like Mari has zero identity. Shame. As for why these awful actors always get hired? It's simple. The North American anime distribution industry is a nickels & pennies business. Sure, they have a lot of fans but the anime fandom is probably the most vocal niche group in the Northern hemisphere. It's a small portion of the overall populace (very small) and they just chatter about their favorite episode of "Underage girl riding a phallic broomstick" louder than anyone else can.

Funimation has a small stable of "actors" in the loosest sense of the word who flitter around Texas, don't have the necessary skill to work live action (none of these people try to work in Austin? One of the largest independent film communities the world over?) and get low end paychecks every month or so to perform the same voice in cartoons. Don't ever hold out for celebrity voices (not that they're anymore talented; they just LOOK better) in non-Disney backed anime releases-they can pay Big Bucks- because the paychecks are miniscule and no actor wants a "Director" who couldn't direct how to make a Subway sandwich telling them:
"Ok. You did that line good. Could you make it squeakier?"

Sorry for the rant. I got a thing against dubs. A couple times I've been away from my personal computer and had an itch to see a clip or two of "End of Evangelion" & nothing is worse than searching on Youtube only to find D rate actors perform C rate dialogue in an A Class film.

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Postby C.A.P. » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:40 pm

^So you're one of those "EVERY CARTOON VOICE MUST BE DISTINGUISHABLE OR IT IS SHIT" people that lurks around animation blogs?

Got it.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:44 pm

No. I believe in quality should take preference over a lazily produced product.

The animation dubbing industry has rarely ever followed that mantra. Why search for an actor when you can hire Sally the Intern for less? Warner Brothers animation of the past was excellent because they searched for talented individuals to supply the voice of their characters. When you're dealing with anime, which once was more heavily dependent on dialogue than MOST American animation, who you cast is a big part of getting the characters right. I've yet to see an anime dubbing of late do it right because they all cast the same set of Texas wannabes.

Nice Snidely Whiplash 'stache though.
Last edited by Gendo'sPapa on Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby C.A.P. » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:45 pm

Thanks. The cape came with it.

Anyways, GP, keep this in mind next time you bitch about dubs; it's a businesse. It can't be help. Thinking you can get A-list actors for some small time dub is like thinking there'll be another Walt Disney to change everything in animation; unless money comes to dub studios in truckfolds and someone has the passion to change things, there's nothing we can do about dubs unless we give them, like, oh, I don't know, 10 billion dollars or something.

You right, the reason guys like Mel Blanc and Daws Bulter were great was because they had the acting chops to do it, and they had enough vocal chords to do it, but here's the thing; to them, the most important thing about their job was trying to find a voice that fitted the character, and that's what dub actors strive to do too. I think the problem you have with dubs actors is that they don't share the same passion Mel had whenever he voiced a character. And you know what? The guy repeated voices too and had stock voices all ready to go if the Termite Terrance guys needed it, so I find it puzzling you chastise dub studios for not getting original voices, while Warner Brothers pretty much did the same thing with Mel and others and tried to get exclusive with Mel too.

I mean, he got screen credit alone in all those cartoons because he wanted more money, and instead got the credit! Nothing in the business has really changed doc, there's just more people trying to get into it now!
Last edited by C.A.P. on Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Feb 05, 2011 1:51 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Maybe they're cheaper
I've heard that VA work pays about as well as flipping burgers. It's only for something that's getting a full-scale cinema release that gets real actors (and I'm talking Steamboy* or Spirited Away type runs, not just the token arthouse run that Rebuild is getting).

*Now there was a film that got dub where everyone had appropriate regional accents.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:02 pm

Understandable. Last thing I'd ever want in an Eva film is a celebrity dubber. Disney can pay those big celebrities for Ghibli films because they're Disney. It doesn't mean the actors are right for the characters (they usually aren't) but they can at least perform, which helps make the dubs a little more bearable to listen to.

But what doesn't cost much money is to hold auditions. You put up some ads (online now you can do it for free), set a date and spend an afternoon listening to actors hungry for work. There's a million of them! Especially in Texas which has one of the strongest independent film communities the world over. A lot of those actors are probably anime nerds. I can imagine if they saw an ad saying-
"Looking for an actor to voice an anime character, this is a paid gig."
- a great deal of those actors would jump to the chance to audition. I can't for the life of me imagine any auditions were held for these films to hunt for the right actors. I can't see any reason why Trina Nishimura could get the Mari role & perform so unremarkable except that she's been working at Funimation for years.

I just would like to see a little effort made on Funimation's behalf. I haven't seen any & it shows. That's my beef. Yes, it's a business but even as low as their budget might be it would cost little to hunt for talent.

* As for Mel Blanc. The guy was a genius & people like that are one in a billion. If Funimation had an actor who could perform like Mel Blanc I'd be on board for it. Problem is they don't. Hell, no one at Funimation except maybe the returning Eva cast (except Grant) sounds like they can act.

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Postby C.A.P. » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:07 pm

Again, it's a business. Getting someone who is already on the payroll and who knows the studios very well is faster and cheaper than trying to find someone else to do it.

It's like the anime studios, only actors are more willing to beat each other up for a job. -shurgs-
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:12 pm

My final post:

I understand that. Just wish they'd put in the extra effort since it wouldn't cost much, if anything.

I'm not gonna pat them on the back for a subpar product.

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Postby C.A.P. » Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:15 pm

:shrug:

Don't know what to tell ya then. I would say "stop watching dubs", but we both know that'll accomplish nothing.
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Postby Warren Peace » Sat Feb 05, 2011 4:56 pm

I just don't think it's fair to pass judgment on her performance based on this one scene (beyond what you think of the scene, of course). Those already declaring her a disaster are a bit premature. I'm not entirely impressed myself. BUT if she nails "psycho bitch" Mari, we might better understand the casting.

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Postby Hatsumi92 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:15 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:I just don't think it's fair to pass judgment on her performance based on this one scene (beyond what you think of the scene, of course). Those already declaring her a disaster are a bit premature. I'm not entirely impressed myself. BUT if she nails "psycho bitch" Mari, we might better understand the casting.


I agree with this, even though I like the voice from this clip anyway. If she nails the beast mode scene then I'm all for her.

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Postby Jayfive » Sat Feb 05, 2011 6:39 pm

Good grief, casting judgement on the VA's performance from one short scene?

My earlier posts were simply how i thought that scene went based on my expectations after watching the dub. I did watch a fair chunk of 2.0 thinking 'wonder what dialogue will the english version use' and suchlike.

There are certain scenes in 2.0 that the english VA have to nail - in Trina's case this isnt really one of them as Mari's character is already established in the opening scene. As stated already it the Tunniel battle and Za Beasto thats shes got give a good performance. Or indeed 3.0 where it seems likely shell have a lot more interaction with the established cast.

And lets face it this scene is as much about saucy bum-wiggling fanservice as it is character development :P

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Postby Clover » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:13 pm

You guys are fucking crazy. I'll take this over "bee thah fo mai extrashion reitah" any day. Can't wait to hear engrishless Kaji too.

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Postby penguintruth » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:02 am

It wasn't a long enough scene to get a bearing on either character's VA's performance. As much as I enjoy pointing out how terrible Spike Spencer is, I really can't tell from this.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:52 am

I've said this before, bit I just watch the original Japanese dubs and don't bother with the English cast. That way any complaint or complement I have is directed toward the creative team, and not how ever many hands touched it on its way to the States.

But, yeah. Kaji's Engrish was funny. I still found it smooth and sexy, but it was also down-right funny on top of it all.

Thought a major issue with an English dub for 2.22 would just be Anno's attempt at introducing a language barrier in the series. I'm not sure if that's going to play a relevant plot-point in future films (to be honest I don't know if Anno knows that either, as these film seem to be written as they come), and it if does, Funimation's gonna have to think fast to make sense in what they're already doing with 2.22.

Then beyond that there's what I actually think about the actors' talents, which I'm sure you're all tired of hearing by now.
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Postby oOoOoOo » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:09 am

This video compares the male and female voicework in Mass Effect 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ka57odVXldw

The male actor has the same problem as Eva's English cast. So far Mari's actor sounds like she's continuing the tradition of flat, lifeless delivery.

View Original PostJayfive wrote:Good grief, casting judgement on the VA's performance from one short scene?

Maybe the Amazon video is a crap example, but it's the example they used. Could it be that she's totally awesome for every scene except that one? It's possible. But if I were the director I'd have made her do that scene over again. Hell, if that was her audition tape I wouldn't have hired her.

I use Disney's dubs of Ghibli work as an example because it is all I can think of. But in terms of videogames, I'd argue the English dub of Final Fantasy XII is quite good simply because they hired theatre actors. You don't have to spend ONE MILLION DOLLARS to get together a bunch of stage actors.

View Original PostGendo'sPapa wrote:But what doesn't cost much money is to hold auditions. ... I can't see any reason why Trina Nishimura could get the Mari role & perform so unremarkable except that she's been working at Funimation for years.

Yup! There's an arts high school down the street from me. I'm pretty confident Funimation could have gone there to hire, for peanuts, a sixteen-year-old drama student to do a better job as Mari. It isn't like voice actors have to spend a lifetime training with gurus on a remote mountaintop. Good voice actors are everywhere.

I'd also argue shit voicework is preventing stuff like Evangelion from breaking through in the West. My non-anime friends who saw the limited showing of Rebuild (at my obvious behest) thought the voicework was shrill and unprofessional. Funimation is keeping Eva in the ghetto by reusing Grant, Spencer, et al. By bringing in a fresh cast of unknowns they could have really boosted Eva's profile. They had a chance and blew it. They are still blowing it.
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Postby C.A.P. » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:03 pm

View Original PostoOoOoOo wrote:I'd also argue shit voicework is preventing stuff like Evangelion from breaking through in the West. My non-anime friends who saw the limited showing of Rebuild (at my obvious behest) thought the voicework was shrill and unprofessional. Funimation is keeping Eva in the ghetto by reusing Grant, Spencer, et al. By bringing in a fresh cast of unknowns they could have really boosted Eva's profile. They had a chance and blew it. They are still blowing it.


...what?

Okay, granted, you're right that good voice actors are indeed important to make or break anything animated (I mean, the Looney Tunes wouldn't of been as famous as they are without Mel Blanc), but that's not THE reason Evangelion is not the juggernaut we wish it was in the West. No, it's much more complicated than that; animation is still being viewed as the red haired stepchild of cinema, no one in the business right now is interested in making it better because the money isn't there, you have to keep making compromises if anything is going to be done in that business, it's pretty much the same problems animation is stuck in ever since they figured out on how to profit from the artform back in the 20s.

If you want things to get done, you have to understand the business aspect of it, not the art itself. Money talks, not voices.
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Postby Warren Peace » Sun Feb 06, 2011 5:12 pm

Yeah, if Miyazaki films are relegated to the anime ghetto (and they are), Funimation's dub certainly has nothing to do with it. Critical praise and even an Oscar haven't been enough to get Ghibli mainstream acceptance.

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Thought a major issue with an English dub for 2.22 would just be Anno's attempt at introducing a language barrier in the series. I'm not sure if that's going to play a relevant plot-point in future films (to be honest I don't know if Anno knows that either, as these film seem to be written as they come), and it if does, Funimation's gonna have to think fast to make sense in what they're already doing with 2.22.


Seeing as how Mari speaks (AFAIK) perfect Japanese, I don't think it will be an issue.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Feb 06, 2011 11:38 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:Seeing as how Mari speaks (AFAIK) perfect Japanese, I don't think it will be an issue.

I was thinking more like Mari speaking in English so that other Japanese characters wouldn't know what she was saying during phone conversations? I wouldn't know how much of what Mari said when she dropped into English in 2.0 Shinji actually understood. Kinda like how Shinji couldn't understand Asuka's German in NGE whe she was talking with her step mom over the phone, and dubbing the whole series into German would have really thrown that whole scene out of whack.
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Postby CORE » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:40 am

The "life filled" Japanese performances subtitle readers love are the equivalent of the chilled out cool and slightly apathetic English performances.

This is because there is no english language custom equivalent of "getting on with it" with a upbeat "cute or cheeky" style of speech.. english language can not be used that way with out sounding perverted to a native english speaker.
In regard to performance quality (possibly the most vague thing you can give a good or bad review to and shows a lack of sensibilities in the entire area and discredits your criticism instantly) i would say the above along with many other complex considerations are clearly being made that fans who criticizes this are unaware of or simply don't want to think about.
I think many who criticize localization just prefer the utter alienation found in another language more than a native experience translation. which really is just pathetic and ridiculously ironic.


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