Evangelion 2.22, BD/DVD

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment is scheduled to debut in Japan at some date to be announced.

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Postby Warren Peace » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:12 am

View Original PostAchtungAffen wrote:Well, it's old now and I don't know if I'll find that. But I believe it was mentioned on Anno's HP. I got it, not long after BSG stopped airing, through either Minna no Eva fan or Eva Kinkyuu News. If you're that much interested I might try to look for it but might take me some time.


Thanks for the offer, but I'll just take your word for it! Sci-Fi that splits its time between pondering the human condition and action scenes featuring a spunky female pilot taking orders from a command center? I can see that appealing to him.

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Postby EvaCub » Sat Feb 05, 2011 11:42 pm

I wonder if Funimation is going to be using the BD master or will be upscaling for the release of 2.22. has there been any word?
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Postby schismatics » Sun Feb 06, 2011 12:18 am

View Original PostEvaCub wrote:I wonder if Funimation is going to be using the BD master or will be upscaling for the release of 2.22. has there been any word?


I'm guessing the master...that's what they did for 1.11 right?

preordered. ^_^

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Postby Clover » Sun Feb 06, 2011 6:00 pm

View Original PostEvaCub wrote:I wonder if Funimation is going to be using the BD master or will be upscaling for the release of 2.22. has there been any word?

Who in their right mind would buy an upscaled Blu ray?

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Postby Hatsumi92 » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:04 pm

View Original PostClover wrote:Who in their right mind would buy an upscaled Blu ray?


The vast majority of Japanese BD-Boxes released in Japan are upscales and they sell very well. So people do buy them. Believe it or not there is such thing as a good upscale, they're not all half assed like a few of Funi's older BD's and the Japanese FLCL.

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Postby drinian » Sun Feb 06, 2011 10:16 pm

View Original PostClover wrote:Who in their right mind would buy an upscaled Blu ray?

"Upscale" is kind of a misnomer. Most older shows are transferred from master tapes that have a resolution better than DVD (but less than native 1080p). So there is a gain in quality. Not to mention that, AFAIK, Blu-ray can reproduce a wider color gamut than DVD. (It's not limited to the crappy NTSC standard).
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Postby tomrule123 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:24 pm

View Original Postdrinian wrote:"Upscale" is kind of a misnomer. Most older shows are transferred from master tapes that have a resolution better than DVD (but less than native 1080p). So there is a gain in quality. Not to mention that, AFAIK, Blu-ray can reproduce a wider color gamut than DVD. (It's not limited to the crappy NTSC standard).


True... but if it was never meant to be in High Definition in the first place, why bother? Besides, Funimation would always have a high definition transfer depending if Japan made the show or film in HD. If it's not, then Funimation would use the best source possible. I'm definitely hoping that Funi wouldn't skimp the quality of 2.22. And I definitely think they're giving this release a 6.1 TrueHD audio mix.
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(though I do wonder what they would do with the subs when the Japanese cast speaks their English. I'm not saying it's an insult or anything, but their accent may not be fully understandable to Americans. It's not going to be a problem for the Dub version since, well, they're going to speak in English or other dubs in the first place! ...go figure. :rolleyes: )

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:23 pm

View Original Postdrinian wrote:"Upscale" is kind of a misnomer. Most older shows are transferred from master tapes that have a resolution better than DVD (but less than native 1080p).

Actually I never understood which resolution they used in those days (if there was a fixed one)...
View Original Postdrinian wrote:So there is a gain in quality. Not to mention that, AFAIK, Blu-ray can reproduce a wider color gamut than DVD. (It's not limited to the crappy NTSC standard).

Both use 4:2:0 YUV with 8 bit precision, I suppose that you're referring to the RGB colour range (0-255 vs 16-235) but even in this case BD usually use the REC 709 matrix for HD and the RGB conversion of that matrix is 16-235 (TV range). I could be wrong but I think that DVDs and BDs should be visually identical when it comes to colour informations.

EDIT:
EvaCub wrote:I wonder if Funimation is going to be using the BD master or will be upscaling for the release of 2.22. has there been any word?

Upscale is used only for digital animes made around 2000, today animes are made directly in HD so they'll obviously use an HD master.
tomrule123 wrote:I'm definitely hoping that Funi wouldn't skimp the quality of 2.22. And I definitely think they're giving this release a 6.1 TrueHD audio mix.

1.11 was in 6.1 Dolby TrueHD, there's no reason to think that they'll lower the quality.
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:54 am

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:Both use 4:2:0 YUV with 8 bit precision, I suppose that you're referring to the RGB colour range (0-255 vs 16-235) but even in this case BD usually use the REC 709 matrix for HD and the RGB conversion of that matrix is 16-235 (TV range). I could be wrong but I think that DVDs and BDs should be visually identical when it comes to colour informations.

There's not that much greater difference between DVD and Blu-ray. Much of it is actually how the video footage is compressed before it hits the discs themselves. For example, some of the early HD trailers released on the internet would have terrible color compression, appearing like a high resolution animated GIF image with sound. The standard rez trailers would look better in color and lighting by comparison. Now they've found better compressions for internet releases and the like.

Though, Blu-ray don't need to be formatted in NTSC as DVDs do. So there is a difference. It's just not very noticeable to everyone. Most people are just like "The rez is go big! OMG!" when it comes to Blu-ray.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:21 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Though, Blu-ray don't need to be formatted in NTSC as DVDs do. So there is a difference. It's just not very noticeable to everyone. Most people are just like "The rez is go big! OMG!" when it comes to Blu-ray.

What do you mean with "formatted with formatted in NTSC"? NTSC is an analog format, DVD and BD are both digital; DVDs aren't "formatted" in NTSC (unlike LDs that contained really NTSC composite signals), they simply uses digital equivalents of NTSC's lines and refresh rate for a convenient digital>analog conversion. BD uses higher resolution and allows "true" 24p frame rate (but using field repeat flags it's possible to obtain 24p frame rate even with DVDs) but it still uses these legacy resolution and frame rate with SD videos (even though commercial SD Blu-Ray are uncommon).
So let’s make a wish.
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From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:41 am

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:What do you mean with "formatted with formatted in NTSC"? NTSC is an analog format, DVD and BD are both digital; DVDs aren't "formatted" in NTSC (unlike LDs that contained really NTSC composite signals), they simply uses digital equivalents of NTSC's lines and refresh rate for a convenient digital>analog conversion.

That technology was, for some reason, carried over into DVDs. I don't know why, exactly. Most of it probably has something to do with a lot of analog footage (film, analog video, ect.) being transferred over to digital and digital needing a similar setting in which it handle the analog footage properly. And that, for whatever reason, spilled into all DVD transfers, even those copied "directly from the digital source".

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Postby ShinjiIkari » Sun Feb 13, 2011 9:58 pm

no comment
Last edited by ShinjiIkari on Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:20 pm

View Original PostShinjiIkari wrote:deleted bootleg site has region-less 2.22!!!!!
I have been watching it for a month!!!!
Japanese w/ english subs.
Has more footage, bonus footage, better animation in many parts!

It's the HK version, isn't it? It's been mentioned in the past and from what I've heard its subtitles are decent and it's putted on two discs (single layer), one with the main feature and the other one with the extras (that aren't subbed).
View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:That technology was, for some reason, carried over into DVDs. I don't know why, exactly. Most of it probably has something to do with a lot of analog footage (film, analog video, ect.) being transferred over to digital and digital needing a similar setting in which it handle the analog footage properly. And that, for whatever reason, spilled into all DVD transfers, even those copied "directly from the digital source".

I'm not sure what you're referring to.
How does the analog to digital transfer differ? How does it influence the quality of the transfer and especially why should it cause problems with sources that are already digital?
So let’s make a wish.
“Please let me redo again.”
No matter how many times

From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.

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Postby Shogo-Kun » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:20 pm

View Original PostShinjiIkari wrote:deleted bootleg site has region-less 2.22!!!!!
I have been watching it for a month!!!!
Japanese w/ english subs.
Has more footage, bonus footage, better animation in many parts!
Perfect DVD quality, exactly like any other DVD because it IS the DVD.
Enjoy everybody and remember...
Through indiscriminate death and through prayer, we shall return to our original state, and our souls will be at peace. Let the sacriment begin!!!
deleted bootleg site


Hate to break it to ya, but what you have is a bootleg. I saw that on Amazon a while back.
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Postby ShinjiIkari » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:48 pm

I am just excited i can watch it on my big tv with the big speakers from the dvd player, i just love having the object, you know.
It is an extremely good dvd and the thing plays perfect...
yeah no subs on the extras, but extras!! digital copy of sript! if you like that sort of thing...
and really the animation is better than 2.0 i saw in the theatre Feb 11
"SEELE has dispatched all nine of the Eva Series equipped with the S2 Engines? That seems like a bit much, unless. Do they plan to start it here?"
Yes... and it sucks!

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Feb 13, 2011 10:58 pm

View Original PostHyper Shinchan wrote:How does the analog to digital transfer differ? How does it influence the quality of the transfer and especially why should it cause problems with sources that are already digital?

NTSC is an acronym for the National Television System Committee, and certain standards have been set by them so that all televised video is compatible to all of the devices used to play those videos.

Nowadays, the only standards that really matter anymore is the size of the video and the pull-down frame-rate of the video, which changes when converting 24 fps film into video for VHS, television, or DVD. NTSC has the video's size at 720 x 480 at all times. The difference between wide screen (16:9) and academy size (full frame, or 4:3) is merely the length of the pixels, but it's still the same amount of pixels (720 x 480), bit in wide screen, each pixel (short for "picture element", a carry over from film prints and not referring to the little light bulbs on your computer screen) is stretched into a 16:9 aspect ratio (16 across by 9 units down) rather than shaped into a 4:3 aspect ratio (4 units wide by 3 units down). An NTSC formatted DVD really means that the size of the video is 720 picture elements across by 420 picture elements down, with the aspect ratio of those picture elements differing depending on shape of the picture you want.

The frame-rate changes with NTSC as well. Usually, stuff shot specifically for NTSC runs at 29.97 fps. This is why most television shows are shot at that frame-rate. But film is still shot in 24.0 fps. So NTSC will use the 3:2 pulldown to change the frame rate to 23.976 fps to help compensate. This results in adding about 7 seconds to a 2-hour film, which nobody every really notices.

There's also color encoding requirements and all of that stuff.

There's another method of formatting not used in the States called PAL, which has the video size of 720 x 576 picture elements. This give greater vertical resolution, and I believe the aspect ratios of the picture elements are also adjusted to something different that 4:3 or 16:9 shapes, but since the PAL system is only used in South America, I never really got around to learning the ins and outs of that system.

And since NTSC is a national thing accepted by most other countries, that means of you're watch a TV show or playing a DVD built for the broadcast technology you're using, it's encoded to the parameters set by the National Television System Committee.

All that to say that Blu-ray isn't formatted in NTSC, which gives more precise displays of picture elements and frame rate. High definition broadcast technology is much different than standard broadcast technology, but also comply to other standards, probably set by the formatting the films themselves are made in. I think some TV shows have also begun recording in non NTSC formatting, and have switched to using film standards within terms of frame-rate and picture elements and compensating by using the 3:2 pulldown for some syndicated television broadcasts.

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Postby Azathoth » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:03 pm

View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:There's another method of formatting not used in the States called PAL, which has the video size of 720 x 576 picture elements. This give greater vertical resolution, and I believe the aspect ratios of the picture elements are also adjusted to something different that 4:3 or 16:9 shapes, but since the PAL system is only used in South America, I never really got around to learning the ins and outs of that system.


Isn't PAL used in Europe and Asia as well? I know it's the primary system used in China.
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Postby drinian » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:08 pm

Thanks for clearing all of that up. I'd especially been having trouble finding information on the Blu-ray color space (I do now know AVCHD can handle the xvYCC color space, though Blu-ray cannot: https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/XvYCC )

AFAIK there's really no reason for any Blu-ray to do 3:2 pulldown any more, right? Displays that can't handle 24fps natively just tell the Blu-ray player to do the pulldown on the fly, and people with 120hz TVs get to watch it with the proper framerate.

Incidentally, both NTSC and PAL, not to mention SECAM, are analog video standards outmoded by digital broadcast. Some early DVD players couldn't convert between standards,even if they were region-free; my NTSC region-free player can play back PAL DVDs to my NTSC CRT TV just fine.

There's really a lot of great stuff on Wikipedia on this subject, so just go and read up on it...

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/PAL
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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:17 pm

View Original PostAzathoth wrote:Isn't PAL used in Europe and Asia as well? I know it's the primary system used in China.

I don't really know. I know they're region encoded differently, which really just means I clicked a button in DVD Studio Pro, and didn't do anything to the video itself. I think PAL may be used in Europe, but I'm really not sure.

View Original Postdrinian wrote:AFAIK there's really no reason for any Blu-ray to do 3:2 pulldown any more, right? Displays that can't handle 24fps natively just tell the Blu-ray player to do the pulldown on the fly, and people with 120hz TVs get to watch it with the proper framerate.

I think the Blu-ray can do that on the fly. Though some televisions can probably do it at this rate as well. I know there's a setting on the TV that is supposed to eliminate motion blur on 24.0 fps videos, but all that really does is make the video appear like it was shot at 60 fps, but without any of the nuanced detailed movement that shooting at 60 fps would have caught. The end result is that on-screen objects appear to move really smoothly and stiffly when that setting is activated, almost like video game animation.

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Postby Hyper Shinchan » Sun Feb 13, 2011 11:24 pm

So you were referring to aspect ratio? That's one issue, I admit it, it can be noticeble at times (actually non square pixels are also used by BD; 1440x1080 with 16:9 is one of the allowed resolutions; the advantage is mainly in the reduced resolution that allow for lower bitrate but indeed it'd introduce some aliasing; anyway that setting isn't largely used, just like SD BDs).
View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:The frame-rate changes with NTSC as well. Usually, stuff shot specifically for NTSC runs at 29.97 fps. This is why most television shows are shot at that frame-rate. But film is still shot in 24.0 fps. So NTSC will use the 3:2 pulldown to change the frame rate to 23.976 fps to help compensate. This results in adding about 7 seconds to a 2-hour film, which nobody every really notices.

Actually BDs runs at 23.976 fps... true 24 fps is a legal value but no one uses it.
View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:There's also color encoding requirements and all of that stuff.

Could you be specific about colour encoding and why BDs should have higher quality in these regards? As far as I can tell the colour encoding used by BDs and DVDs is exactly the same.
View Original PostFreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:There's another method of formatting not used in the States called PAL, which has the video size of 720 x 576 picture elements. This give greater vertical resolution, and I believe the aspect ratios of the picture elements are also adjusted to something different that 4:3 or 16:9 shapes, but since the PAL system is only used in South America, I never really got around to learning the ins and outs of that system.

No, South America uses NTSC, except Brazil that uses PAL-M that it's an hybrid format (it's 525 lines and 60hz based like NTSC but it uses the colour encoding used by PAL).
Europe, Australia, China and many African and Asian countries uses (or used since in HDTV the only legacy left by these standard is the frame rate and the resolution used for SD contents) PAL or SECAM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PAL-NTSC-SECAM.svg
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From the book “All About Nagisa Kaworu: A Child of Evangelion”.


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