FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote: No wonder why he hasn't started work on the live-action Star Wars TV series he promised us.

Yes, he got distracted by 3D.

Liam Neeson is appearing in The Clone Wars.

http://www.movieweb.com/news/star-wars- ... i-gon-jinn

pretty surreal to read that


all I can say is that Qui Gon (as well as the pointless pod race and Darth Maul to a lesser extent) is what I remember the most about Episode I


far more so than Jar Jar

Qui Gon and Darth Maul were the coolest characters in the prequel trilogy. Seriously. George Lucas isn't good at writing dialogue? Then only give Darth Maul one line. And Qui Gon looked like a rebel hippie Jedi, which is awesome. Neeson was a little better at embracing the wooden dialogue in the movie anyway. SO WHY'D GEORGE FEEL THE NEED TO KILL THE TWO BEST THINGS IN THE PREQUELS OFF IN THE FIRST MOVIE?! The rest of the time we were stuck with Hayden and Natalie, who didn't handle the wooden dialogue that well.

And Jar-Jar........

As much as I like Qui-Gon and Darth Maul, the former breaks the idea of what a Jedi is supposed to be and the latter is ordered by Sidious/Palpatine to do things that are counterproductive to Sidious/Palpatine's interests and is thus only useful in the fact that he looks cool, says little, and fights awesomely.

Oh, by all means I'm not trying to say they were perfect. Most of Menace was counter-productive, including Qui Gon and Maul. I'm just saying they could have had more potential in the prequels then most of the other characters. But seeing as how the writing sucks, I wouldn't think George is in the habit of making enough productive choices to think to keep and develop the already established characters, rather than having to introduce this whole new Count Dooku guy and asking the audience to hate him simply because he carries around a curvy red light-saber.

Merchandising on the other hand... All the smart moves.

Hey, this thread reminded me...someone actually wrote a response to RLM's TPM review and actually criticized it. If any of you are brave enough to read it, just click the following...

http://www.slashfilm.com/star-wars-fan- ... ce-review/

But in case you gave up sometime in that rebuttal, here's a video making fun of said rebuttal...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jTpWzg4aiEU&feature=sub

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Oh, by all means I'm not trying to say they were perfect. Most of Menace was counter-productive, including Qui Gon and Maul. I'm just saying they could have had more potential in the prequels then most of the other characters.

I agree with you. If you're interested, Qui-Gon did meet some of that potential in the 'Jedi Apprentice' novel series (which, I would argue, is better written and more interesting than the prequel trilogy) (it's worth noting that although the novels are each around 200 pages long and are aimed at pre-teens, I re-read the first two books not long ago and was quite satisfied with them) and there is probably a good Maul-oriented book out there, as long as you stay away from the various TPM-retellings.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:But seeing as how the writing sucks, I wouldn't think George is in the habit of making enough productive choices to think to keep and develop the already established characters,

IIRC, in the biography Skywalking, it is noted by the biographer and by accounts of those involved that George wrote at least four drafts of the original film (over three/four years) before finally settling on the fourth one, which was adapted into the script (and the script went through changes before and into the filming). Each of the treatments had significant differences to the other; such as what the direction of the story was, what the setting/premise was, and the nature of the characters.
For TPM and the subsequent films, George wrote one treatment, and it was that treatment that was ushered into various production departments before a script was even finalised (I believe this is the case with RoTS). Sure, one could say "He really had a good idea of what he wanted", yet from the footage of the test screening of TPM we know that not everyone who was involved was happy with the nature and order of the film as it turned out - yet George argued "But the film is the way it is because the scenes are in that order", or something to that effect.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:rather than having to introduce this whole new Count Dooku guy and asking the audience to hate him simply because he carries around a curvy red light-saber.

The second film would have made a whole lot more sense if the original Trade Federation losers from the first films weren't included, and Count Dooku was introduced as the inheritor of the organisation. Seriously, imagine it: with the events in TPM, the Trade Federation would have no leader and would be in lots of trouble - so Palpy sends Dooku to go buy it out and use it for the confederacy for the war and providing the need for an army for the future empire and scatter the jedi across the galaxy to kill them off and establish the goddamned empire already. I admit this idea wouldn't cure the film, but it would inject some much needed logic into its proceedings.
Also, Dooku being a 'Space Count' is a bit silly IMO - since he's established as a 'Count' it's all just "OH LOOK AT THIS GUY HE HAS THE WORD 'COUNT' IN FRONT OF HIS NAME SO HE MUST BE EVIL LIKE COUNT DRACULA FROM SEASME STREET" - i.e., exactly like you said, and i.e., Lucas includes the losers for no other reason than for them to be the basis of a nonsensical assassin plot subplot to start the film with.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Merchandising on the other hand... All the smart moves.

The liscensing agreement with Lego is probably one of the most profitable business deals of all time - it expanded the target market for merchandise to younger children and set the stage for the kiddie-oriented TPM and the TPM toy range that followed.

^ +1, EvnangelionFan. Except for the Star Wars novels. I haven't read those, so I can't really say what characters were fully realized in them or not. Though just the idea of a movie needing supplemental material (books, video games, ect.) in order to understand or fully realize a relatively simple story is still somewhat repulsive to me. The novel are probably well written and I may enjoy them, sure, but I shouldn't have to read them in order to get the "full Star Wars experience", an experience that was first and foremost structured for motion-picture film.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:^ +1, EvnangelionFan. Except for the Star Wars novels. I haven't read those, so I can't really say what characters were fully realized in them or not. Though just the idea of a movie needing supplemental material (books, video games, ect.) in order to understand or fully realize a relatively simple story is still somewhat repulsive to me. The novel are probably well written and I may enjoy them, sure, but I shouldn't have to read them in order to get the "full Star Wars experience", an experience that was first and foremost structured for motion-picture film.

I recommend checking out Zahn's Thrawn trilogy at the very least: it is better than any film out of franchise since ESB

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:Though just the idea of a movie needing supplemental material (books, video games, ect.) in order to understand or fully realize a relatively simple story is still somewhat repulsive to me.

The Jedi Apprentice novel series isn't like that at all: it tells the story of how Obi-Wan Kenobi came to be accepted as Qui-Gon Jinn's padawan, and their subsequent adventures over the course of several years. If I recall correctly, everything in the novels is self-sustaining and doesn't attempt to explain or fully realize parts of the films. It's all Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon character development as they complete missions for the temple and confront their inner demons (metaphorically speaking).

Xard wrote:I recommend checking out Zahn's Thrawn trilogy at the very least: it is better than any film out of franchise since ESB

Xard is on the money here. If you happen to read the Thrawn trilogy and want a little bit more, Kevin J Anderson's Jedi Academy trilogy is a reasonable follow-up (note: both trilogies were written and published before Lucas started making TPM, so some of the backstory is out of sync with the prequel trilogy). I'd also reccommend reading Star Wars: Death Star - it does overlap heavily with the events of the original film, yet it is an intelligent and immersive read.

^I read the first two of those books years ago (at the time, only two were published). Did ever they write more than that?

EvangelionFan wrote:Also, Dooku being a 'Space Count' is a bit silly IMO - since he's established as a 'Count' it's all just "OH LOOK AT THIS GUY HE HAS THE WORD 'COUNT' IN FRONT OF HIS NAME SO HE MUST BE EVIL LIKE COUNT DRACULA FROM SEASME STREET" - i.e., exactly like you said, and i.e., Lucas includes the losers for no other reason than for them to be the basis of a nonsensical assassin plot subplot to start the film with.

I never thought the Space Count idea was itself a bad one. It's just that the idea of a count flies in the face of a republic, as far as I could tell. If the structure of the Galactic Republic was loose enough to allow Counts of whole planets to exist, then said republic might as well have been a confederacy anyhow. But it doesn't really matter, since the government & politics of Star Wars was never anything more than window dressing.

Merridian wrote:^I read the first two of those books years ago (at the time, only two were published). Did ever they write more than that?

If you're referring to the Jedi Apprentice series, there were a total of 18 volumes published, plus two cross-overs with the follow-up Jedi Quest series (which follows Anakin and Obi-Wan... 10 volumes of it were made, the first six are decent, after that it stumbled for me)

Merridian wrote:I never thought the Space Count idea was itself a bad one.

Oh no, it's not a bad idea at all. As far as the film went through, in the end someone wrote a book that explained what exactly Dooku was supposed to be the Count of, and possibly a little bit about how he went from being a Jedi to assuming the title of Count. Otherwise you're right, politics of Star Wars is certainly window dressing; shame that it was used mostly for plot convenience in the newer films.

I concur with Xard. The Thrawn Trilogy is by far the best thing to ever emerge from the cesspit known as the Expanded Universe, mostly because that even though it throws in a number of twists... it still distinctly feels like Star Wars. Which I can't say for the POS New Jedi Order series.

FWIW, the original draft of the script for The Empire Strikes Back.

I just realized this is the only 3-D Star Wars film with a release date. We are so doomed.

^the fuck is Lucas thinking?

Are Star Wars fans really sad enough for him to capitalize off of this? I hope not.

I'm going to support the franchise by not seeing this release.
Ironic, huh?

I'll see it, I thought episode 1 was awesome.