Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby esselfortium » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:00 am

View Original PostGasmaskAvenger wrote:I think I finally discovered the reason behind why 2.0 is the way it is:


Its not because of having not a clue where to go and an overall lack of direction, its because of having Too many ideas and the constant influx of them throughout its written process, thus diluting it altogether with juggling the abundance of ideas that's out there and giving off the vibe of having "a lack of direction", which is not true

its perhaps because there's too many possibilities of directions to take it and the attempt to fuse and Frankenstein them all in one

Jumbling many different ideas together in a way leading to a result that feels unfocused is more or less the definition of a "lack of direction".

It also entails "not having a clue where to go"; if you have 50 different paths you can take, and you decide to take 30 of them instead of picking one and doing it well, that pretty much means you have no direction.

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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:15 am

well yeah, but compared to...well...running out of ideas or having very little ideas to take it (and what you have available is probably less than desirable) and forcing to shit ideas out in the midst of a drought of ideas, having too much to choose from is more ideal


so pick your poison for all its worth
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Postby Legendary » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:21 am

Part of "too much" is cutting it down. 2.0's story would have worked much better had its first half focused more on Shinji's claimed friendship with Asuka, so that in the end, when she gets Bardiel'd, we actually have reason to believe Shinji's grief and choice to save Rei no matter the cost.

Or Rebuild's story would be better if Asuka had been introduced in 1.0 instead of 2.0 and the story began to veer from the original plot much quicker than it actually did so.

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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:32 am

yeah


I think the unfortunate aspect of some of the better concepts getting the boot could be fit into the following:


1. Time Restrictions = Budget Restrictions and/or how movie making/the theater distribution system in Japan works, which 3.0 probably won't suffer, so by this point, we could get a two and a half hour 3.0 and Final...maybe even longer, considering we really don't have a fucking clue what's in store

2. Too many cooks in the room. Maybe a case of too much reliance towards the cooks that might compromise some good ideas too.

3. Intentional "Fucking with Viewer Expectations", though this one doesn't bug me at all. Others more so

4. Keeping to fulfill the "a more mainstream, streamlined EVA" promise, despite probably not wanting to anymore.
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Postby Legendary » Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:43 am

View Original PostGasmaskAvenger wrote:1. Time Restrictions = Budget Restrictions

I do not think they had budget restrictions. And even if there were time restrictions (I cannot imagine why), there's this thing called the Home Video market, which allows for Director's Cuts. Two such Director's Cuts had been released in this video series already: 1.01 and 1.11. A third was planned: 2.22.

So why not include the important stuff in it?

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Postby SaltyJoe » Mon Jan 17, 2011 5:47 am

View Original PostLegendary wrote:And even if there were time restrictions (I cannot imagine why), there's this thing called the Home Video market, which allows for Director's Cuts.

This is just my layman's opinion, but i don't think that separate pieces in a movie series that make a greater whole are as flexible when it comes to video release tweakings as series with more episodes (for example, NGE) or stand alone, self contained movies (for example, Blade Runner) are.

The versions of these films shown in cinemas make up the story, such as it is. Add too much stuff to the home releases and you might end up creating discrepancies or even contradictions compared to the theatrical versions, something that the middlepoint movie, in our case, 2.0, is the least suited for (concluding pieces are another case entirely).

What truly irks me is that i think the story of 2.0 could have been made to work much better in it's theatrical form with only the most minimal of alterations. In fact, i feel tempted to do a "revisionist fanfic", a sort of pseudo script where i would touch upon a few scenes and bits of dialog that i think would make the whole thing work a lot better. Even though it would probably come off as little more than fanboy chest beating ("ME CAN DO GOOD!"), and it's always easier to be smart in hindsight, i think this would be a way to demonstrate how i think a few minor (and i do mean minor) modifications here and there would have gone a long way. Real Life is keeping me busy right now, so maybe some other time.
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Postby Legendary » Mon Jan 17, 2011 6:00 am

Really? Add a bit where Shinji sees Asuka pulled out of the plug after the Ninth Angel. It isn't needed to understand the plot. It need not be referenced in Q But by giving us proof that he sees the horror of inaction, and suddenly his later ACTION becomes more plausible.

That right there is something that they could have added, and was in fact in the scripts, but did not.

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Postby SaltyJoe » Mon Jan 17, 2011 9:59 am

Your post which i replied to, and your the post preceding that, gave me the impression that you wanted to see an extended cut with several minutes of added material. I guess i misunderstood.
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Postby NAveryW » Mon Jan 17, 2011 11:42 am

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Postby Kendrix » Tue Jan 18, 2011 6:59 pm

Just out of curiosity (not to rush you or anything), how are the further translation going? Did you decide to deliver the rest of it in one chunk, or did Real Life simple decide to keep you busy?
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Postby 1731298478 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:55 am

View Original PostKendrix wrote:Just out of curiosity (not to rush you or anything), how are the further translation going? Did you decide to deliver the rest of it in one chunk, or did Real Life simple decide to keep you busy?


Ah, sorry!! I ended up being a little busy with other things recently, but I've been able to get back to the CRC interviews. There should be some new material up very soon.

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Postby esselfortium » Wed Jan 19, 2011 1:57 am

Awesome news, glad to hear it! Looking forward to being able to read more of this :)

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Postby Kendrix » Wed Jan 19, 2011 12:14 pm

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:Ah, sorry!! I ended up being a little busy with other things recently, but I've been able to get back to the CRC interviews. There should be some new material up very soon.


No problem. We all have real life and that it not exactly a bad thing XD
I just asked in case you, uh, were writing a test soon or anything like that.
I look forward to the next thing. Here's a bag of internet cookies with the face of your fav EVA girl on them. :w00:

It would be intresting to hear some of your own opinions of the interviews btw.
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Postby AchtungAffen » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:06 am

Been reading the Enokido interviews on this thread and found something of a discrepancy. So it seems Anno wrote both scripts for "Jo" and "Ha", but he told his staff he wanted a new chara and left it to them? So the scripts he wrote did not contain Mari at all?
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Postby Xard » Thu Jan 20, 2011 9:09 am

View Original PostAchtungAffen wrote:Been reading the Enokido interviews on this thread and found something of a discrepancy. So it seems Anno wrote both scripts for "Jo" and "Ha", but he told his staff he wanted a new chara and left it to them? So the scripts he wrote did not contain Mari at all?


uhhhh

I don't get what you're saying here. Anno wrote all initial and final versions of the script. That doesn't mean there wasn't feedback from others in-between.
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Postby 1731298478 » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:46 pm

View Original PostAchtungAffen wrote:Been reading the Enokido interviews on this thread and found something of a discrepancy. So it seems Anno wrote both scripts for "Jo" and "Ha", but he told his staff he wanted a new chara and left it to them? So the scripts he wrote did not contain Mari at all?


Anno did write both scripts himself. As I currently understand it, the idea of a new character was suggested by Ootsuki during the first film, and I believe Anno let Tsurumaki and Sadamoto design the character's appearance at that point, checking back with him at certain points (to see if Anno liked what they did). Anno wrote her into the initial "Ha" script, but in such a way that she had a very minimal role and it wasn't really clear what her personality was like. When Anno began rewriting the script to give her a bigger role, this is where the difficulties emerged. The feeling among Tsurumaki and others, I think, was that they were being given these scenes to storyboard without Anno having any sense of what kind of character she was. As Tsurumaki says, Anno's interest in her was more "thematic" or abstract. Anno wanted to use her to "break" Eva, but he hadn't actually developed her as a character, and what development had been done had been primarily done by others. At least, that's how I understand things so far, and how I would understand Enokido's comment.

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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:38 pm

View Original Post1731298478 wrote:Anno wrote her into the initial "Ha" script, but in such a way that she had a very minimal role and it wasn't really clear what her personality was like.

kinda figured that

Mari was probably "Nameless Vanilla Character" in that first draft
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Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection

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Postby z23 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:41 pm

Anyone have a good idea where i could get the box of books for the 2.0 movie? I know it was only released in Japan but ive just managed to get the 1.0 set and im really looking for the 2nd but cant find any on ebay etc.

Any links to the best place to buy would be great
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Re: Evangelion 2.0 Complete Records Collection

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Postby Electric Sachiel » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:00 am

View Original Postz23 wrote:Anyone have a good idea where i could get the box of books for the 2.0 movie? I know it was only released in Japan but ive just managed to get the 1.0 set and im really looking for the 2nd but cant find any on ebay etc.

Any links to the best place to buy would be great


Unfortunately for you most of the places that once carried the 2.0 book set have now sold out. It will be a while before they re-stock. Until then please check the online anime/Japanese merchandise websites Hobby Link Japan and AmiAmi for possible restock announcements.

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Postby 1731298478 » Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:53 pm

Here is an attempt at Mohiro Kitoh's comments on the Tunniel design from the CRC, as well as the comments on the accompanying sketches. I left out a couple of parts I was unsure of, or, in one case, couldn't decipher. Please expect/forgive translation mistakes in advance! Suggestions/corrections of the translation would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks to Reichu as always for all the amazing scans ^__^

------

Tunniel

http://img836.imageshack.us/f/tunniel1.jpg/
http://img228.imageshack.us/f/tunniel2.jpg/
http://img585.imageshack.us/f/tunniel3.jpg/

--

Anno Sketch

対5号機の第3使徒
イメージ画H.ANNO '06 10/25
The third angel, which battles Unit-05
Sketch by H. Anno, Oct. 25 2006

やはり口からどくえきか?
Venom comes out of the mouth?

コア
Core

ぎじエントリープラグ
Psuedo-Entry Plug

内ぞう部?
S2きかん?
Internal organs?
S2 engine?

大型きゅうりゅうみたく
フリばし式で
バランスとっている。
[?]
It balances itself "furibashi" style.

ほかく、ふういんされていた。
そのさい、必要な部位外は
全て-->
It has been captured, sealed.
In this regard, everything that is
not a necessary part -->

他の部位入れ-->
解体されて保存されている。
Other parts in here -->
They have been dismantled and stored.

--

Kitoh Drawings

エントリープラグ
外装。
Entry Plug exterior

骨格パーツ
Parts of skeleton

下アゴ、取り外させる。
Lower jaw, detached.

もとの手
上腕骨。
Original arm
Humerus.

スキンスーツ
未着用
状態。
Without its "skinsuit."

もとの足
大腿骨部
Original leg
Section of femur

胴体 下面のみ
外骨格がある
かんじ。
Body - undersurface only
It's like it has an exoskeleton.

胴体
スキンスーツ
着用。
Body with its "skinsuit."

21節
(エントリープラグ
ユニット含む)
21 sections (including entry plug unit)

背骨ユニット共通
(エントリープラグ部を
のぞく)
Common spine unit [?]
(excluding entry plug)

21節
21 sections

11節
基本セキツイパーツから
徐々に高[??]へっていきます。
11 sections
[???] from parts of the original spine.

スキンスーツ
未着用状態。
Body without its "skinsuit."

--

Commentary From Designers

第3の使徒/鬼頭莫宏
Third Angel/Mohiro Kitoh

庵野さんから最初に仕事のお話をいただいたのは2004年の春ごろ、『エヴァ』とは別企画でした。『破』の第3使徒のデサインのお話は2006年の終わりごろにいただいたので、『序』の公開よりかなり前です。
Anno-san first asked me about doing some work for him around the spring of 2004, on a different project than Eva. He asked me about the design for the third angel of "Break" around the end of 2006, quite some time before the release of "Prelude."

第3使徒は、実は基本的に庵野さんのラフのまんまで、自分はデサインというほどの仕事はしていません。ラフでは頭の形が第4使徒の魅力的な「アレ」になっていたんですが、自分に投げられたのなら、誰が見ても「間違いない。鬼頭だ」みたいな方が良いかと思い、そう仕上げました。この仕事でハズシを狙うのもおかしい気がしたので、分かりやすくカッコ良いラインにしたつもりです。
To be honest, the third angel is fundamentally the same as it was in Anno-san's sketch. My job was not quite that of a designer. [...]

このように「庵野さんのアウトラインを自分が普通になぞったらこうなる」という形なので、デザイン上の苦労はありませんでした。最初からCGで動かすという話も出ていたので、「アニメ作画用に描きやすい形に」という工夫もしていません。逆にCGのモデリングが楽になるように、パーツをそろえてみたりしましたが、知識がないので実際に楽になったかどうかは分かりません。登場時間も5分程度と聞いていたので、無駄に手間のかかるデザインにする必要もないだろうと思ったのも理由のひとつです。
I came up with a form like this, following Anno-san's outline in a routine manner, so there was no difficulty with the design. In addition, I was told from the beginning that CG would be used to animate its movement, so I didn't bother contriving something [new] that would be easy to draw. Instead, I put the [existing] parts in order so that the CG modeling would be easy. However, I have no knowledge of [the process], so I don't actually know whether that made it easier or not. Another reason was that I heard that the angel would only be on screen for five minutes, so I thought it wasn't necessary to waste a lot of time doing the design.

昆虫っぽい足も、庵野さんのラフまんまです。胴体中ほどに、捕獲される前の形状を想像できるようにつけました。デザイン完成が2006年末で、そのあとは丸投げ状態で、何にもかかわっておらず、動きの指定もしていません。なのでフィルムの上がりを見て「こうやって動くんだ」という感じで、足がバタバタ動いているところや、首と尻尾がまるで一対の羽のようになっているところは、「動きに敏感なアニメーターさんならではの仕事だなあ」と感心しました。
The insect-like legs were also in Anno's sketch. I attached them half-way up the torso so that you could imagine what the form of the angel was like before it was captured. The design was completed at the end of 2006, and the rest was up to others. I was no longer involved. Nor had I indicated how it would move. When I saw the finished film I thought, "so this is how it moves": its feet clattering around, and its neck and tail acting just like a pair of wings. I was impressed. I felt like it had been done by an animator with a great sensitivity to movement.

自分の漫画用にデザインするものは、要求仕様が自分の中にあるので、原稿を描きながら途中でいくらでも変更してしまえます。ほとんどが原稿用紙ぶっつけ本番のデザインですし。でも、こういう仕事の「他の人が使うもの」のデザインは、要求仕様がすべてくみ取れるわけではないので、やはり多少の申しわけなさが拭いきれません。
When it comes to the things I design for my own manga, I have all the specifications within me, and I make as many changes [to them] as I like while sketching the draft. Most of my designs are done off-the-cuff on the draft paper. However, when it comes to a job like this, where I am designing something for another person to use, I can't fully know everything that is required, so there will surely be things I will have to apologize for. [?]

特に自分の場合、現場に入っての作業ではなかったので、演出意図と如実にかかわってくる動きやその他の問題に、どこまで踏み込んでいいか、つかみきれない感じがありました。形を提示した段階で丸投げになったのは、それが理由です。こういう仕事は現場に入り、その場でキャッチボールしながら仕上げていくのが一番いいのは分かっていますが、自分の「漫画を描く」という仕事柄、なかなかその日程を取れないのが難しいところです。こんな程度しか作業していないのに、スタッフロールに名前が入っているのが、申しわけない感じがします。
As mine was a special case where I did the work without coming into the workplace, I felt like I couldn't completely grasp how far I should be involved in the plans for actually rendering it and obviously related problems like [the question of] its movement. That's the reason why I handed the work over at that stage, once the [angel's] form was set out. I know the best thing about this sort of job is going to the office and playing catchball there while you finish your work, but the fact that I could by no means accept that schedule owing to my job writing manga made things difficult. Although I only did this much, my name was listed in the credits. I feel terrible about that.
Last edited by 1731298478 on Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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