Official Rebuild Dub Thread

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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esselfortium
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Postby esselfortium » Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:50 pm

View Original Postpenguintruth wrote:Then defend it fully instead of these paltry dismissive excuses for me not to criticize it.

Me watching the Japanese version is not going to make the English dub good.

It's rather rude to make demands like this when you still haven't particularly defended your own position. We get that you think it sucks and that you think the acting is bad; what of it? You haven't said anything at all that would change the mind of anyone who didn't already agree with you. That no one can possibly refute a totally subjective opinion doesn't mean that all such opinions become fact.

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Postby penguintruth » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:21 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:It's rather rude to make demands like this when you still haven't particularly defended your own position. We get that you think it sucks and that you think the acting is bad; what of it? You haven't said anything at all that would change the mind of anyone who didn't already agree with you. That no one can possibly refute a totally subjective opinion doesn't mean that all such opinions become fact.


This is just another paltry excuse. You're oversimplifying my argument to excuse the lack of counter arguments.

If you're not going to contribute to the debate at hand, dismiss yourself from it.

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Postby esselfortium » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:31 pm

View Original Postpenguintruth wrote:This is just another paltry excuse. You're oversimplifying my argument to excuse the lack of counter arguments.

What exactly is your argument, again?

If you're not going to contribute to the debate at hand, dismiss yourself from it.

You too :)

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Postby penguintruth » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:37 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:What exactly is your argument, again?


View Original Postpenguintruth wrote:Ah, yes, that's likely the problem. In my haste, I'd forgotten what I had posted there and what I had posted here.

But to go into greater detail, I find that Spencer and Grant don't have any subtlety in their performances. They're exaggerated. Spike Spencer's Shinji is a comical caractiture that is more like your stereotypical cartoon coward character. He lacks that soft, feminine, wavery quality that makes Ogata's Shinji a more sympathetic character. Instead he approaches Shinji with this terrible whine in his voice and this over-the-top stretching of Shinji's yelps and the like. You just want to punch his Shinji in the face until he shuts up forever. In fact, I would wager that a lot of the hate for the character in North America comes from Spencer's performance.

Grant goes at Asuka like a bulldozer, not realizing that while Asuka is loud and proud, inside she's damaged and self-hating, and when Asuka takes her downturn later on in the series, she handles her utter disgust as if it were just ordinary indignation instead a of a desperate cry for help. There's no nuance in her delivery, no humanity. She's just a crass stereotype of a bitchy girl. She almost comes off as a spoiled rich girl stereotype.

And those are just two performances. I can go on about how minor roles always sound like they didn't bother casting actors and just pulled random people off the street for a couple of hours to record. Just listen to Fuyutski. No effort at all.

Funimation had a chance to entirely compensate for the terrible English dub of the TV series, and they decided not to for the twisted reason that people are used to Spike Spencer and Tiffany Grant. Well, I'm sure I could get used to daily kicks to the groin, but I wouldn't want to.

Fortunately, they casted well for some of the characters. I much prefer Justin Cook's Touji to the ADV voice actor. Gendo's new VA sounds more like the Japanese voice, and it works (though I guess I never disliked the ADV voice for him). The Nerv bridge bunny trio are all voiced well, too.

It's too bad, though, that Rebuild wasn't licensed by a licensor with access to the best talents. There are plenty of good VAs at Funimation, but I can't help thinking a studio like Animaze or Bang Zoom might have done a better job.


Stop trying to provoke a circular debate. It's akin to trolling.

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Postby Defectron » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:41 pm

Stop trying to provoke a circular argument.


I don't think there's a need for anyone to try to provoke a circle, this convo has already formed a perfect circle of sexual frustration here. And your not really helping. Seriously think about all the dead kittens that came from this.

Anyway I think that the dubs ok, I mean its not great but its not horrible either. I'd put it somewhere in the range of C+ to B- I think the rebuild dubs a bit better then the original eva dub because something about old Ritsukos voice just didn't seem right to me. New Rits is pretty decent though.
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I thought we were talking about grits for a second there.

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Postby Killer Bee » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:56 pm

View Original PostDefectron wrote:I think the rebuild dubs a bit better then the original eva dub because something about old Ritsukos voice just didn't seem right to me. New Rits is pretty decent though.

My mom says she doesn't like the new Rits.

/thread

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Postby Defectron » Wed Dec 29, 2010 7:59 pm

Yeah I've heard other people say that too. I don't really get that, imo new rits is one of the better voices in the rebuild dub, fits the character much better then the old voice.
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Postby Jayfive » Wed Dec 29, 2010 8:50 pm

Anyway I think that the dubs ok, I mean its not great but its not horrible either.


This. Very much in the middle for me aswell. 2.0 will probably be that again just as long as Tiffany Grant isnt at
Image
the whole time.

Show us you can do at least a bit of subtle Tiff. Nail the elevator scene and the cable car scene* and past discretions will probably be forgiven. There's plenty of scope to make with the wacky in the scenes in Misato's apartment if you need to get it out of your system.

And i hope Kaji's 'cool dude' thing isnt pushed too far until he sounds like ReDeath Gendo. And Mari isnt some cross-accent mangling of Paris Hilton and Kate Winslet or something.

*i have this horrible creeping feeling that the 'do you think this is too revealing' line will be changed in the dub to 'does my butt look big in this' or something equally cringeworthy.

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Postby Cheat » Wed Dec 29, 2010 11:14 pm

Anyone notice how relatively subdued dub!Shinji was compared to sub!Shinji in Rebuild 1.11? A nice example of this would be with his and Gendo's first meeting in the beginning of the movie. It sounded more appropriate (Still angry and afraid, but he also sounds baffled at the seemingly absurdity of his father's words and the situation he's/they're in.) in comparison to sub!Shinji's more pronounced shouting in that scene. Any thoughts? Am I just hearing things?
Ugh.

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Postby COACH » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:24 pm

View Original PostHatsumi92 wrote:Because to some people it's actually a good dub, there's your answer.

Yeah, and some people think Rebuild as a whole is garbage, some think it's wonderful. That's why there are debates about the quality of the movies. What's wrong with debating the quality of dub voices?

This is like jumping into a Rebuild debate and saying, "Who cares if you don't like the movies? You've still got your precious TV series, go watch that. Leave Rebuild to those who actually like it!" What sense does that make?!

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:It's rather rude to make demands like this when you still haven't particularly defended your own position. We get that you think it sucks and that you think the acting is bad; what of it? You haven't said anything at all that would change the mind of anyone who didn't already agree with you. That no one can possibly refute a totally subjective opinion doesn't mean that all such opinions become fact.

I'm curious, how exactly do you properly critisize an English dub, then? I know penguintruth from Dragon Ball fandom as well, and he gets the same shit for critisizing the FUNimation dub of that series. But nobody can ever explain exactly what a valid critique of a dub looks like. I mean, he's already said that the acting is poor, the actors lack subtlety, the voices sound goofy and annoying... what else can he say? Of course everything he's saying is entirely subjective; that's how criticism works. I don't think there's any objective way to claim that something stinks. If you know of one, please enlighten me. ;)
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Postby Hatsumi92 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 1:49 pm

View Original PostCOACH wrote:Yeah, and some people think Rebuild as a whole is garbage, some think it's wonderful. That's why there are debates about the quality of the movies. What's wrong with debating the quality of dub voices?

This is like jumping into a Rebuild debate and saying, "Who cares if you don't like the movies? You've still got your precious TV series, go watch that. Leave Rebuild to those who actually like it!" What sense does that make?!


Who said no one is allowed to debate the voices? He's not even debating the voices he's constantly saying they suck like it's not even an opinion. I even specifically said if you don't like the dub whatever you still have the original. I was saying it because you cannot change what has been done. NGE's dub is old now and complaining about it now is pointless you may as well get over it and watch the original version. It's kind of like a broken record complaining about a dub this old.

As for Rebuild, if you don't like the Rebuild series.. you just don't like it. Where as if you like NGE but just don't like the dub, you can switch. It's completely different.

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Postby penguintruth » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:08 pm

The point of referencing the TV series dub was to help express my disappointment in Grant reprising her role for the Rebuild movie, obviously. I wouldn't have brought it up in a discussion about this dub if it weren't relevant.

I still think of the Rebuild dub thus far as better than the TV series, but unfortunately, still not better enough. The Funimation VAs all do better than the ADV voices, but then it's spoiled somewhat by the return of Spencer and Keith. And might even further be hampered by Grant's return.

I still haven't seen any real defense for any of them, but I guess that's asking for too much.

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Postby esselfortium » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:51 pm

View Original PostCOACH wrote:I'm curious, how exactly do you properly critisize an English dub, then?

Generally without demanding that others write scientific essays to prove the validity of their own opinions in relation to yours.

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Postby penguintruth » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:01 pm

View Original Postesselfortium wrote:Generally without demanding that others write scientific essays to prove the validity of their own opinions in relation to yours.


Essays, no. But something at all would be nice.

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Postby Eva 04 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:02 pm

View Original Postpenguintruth wrote:The point of referencing the TV series dub was to help express my disappointment in Grant reprising her role for the Rebuild movie, obviously. I wouldn't have brought it up in a discussion about this dub if it weren't relevant.

I still think of the Rebuild dub thus far as better than the TV series, but unfortunately, still not better enough. The Funimation VAs all do better than the ADV voices, but then it's spoiled somewhat by the return of Spencer and Keith. And might even further be hampered by Grant's return.

I still haven't seen any real defense for any of them, but I guess that's asking for too much.


Of course your asking too much because you still havent defended your position of why you think the Dub is bad.Try defending your own ass before asking other people to defend theirs.

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Postby Grimmjow » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:37 pm

View Original PostGasmaskAvenger wrote:Has it even donned on you that perhaps there are some people out there who did watched it subbed first time around and didn't like it because even with the Japanese VAs, they still found Shinji to be whiny and Asuka to be a total bitch?


THANK YOU. I watched Eva subbed my first time around and found myself despising both Shinji and Asuka. Shinji's incessant whining and Asuka's bitchy behavior nearly drove me insane. Oddly enough, after watching the dub, I found the characters more bearable.(It was probably due to the fact that I could put the character's behavior in context having seen the series once).

You have to judge everything by its time and the circumstances. Back when ADV was dubbing Eva, they were dubbing them two episodes at a time. Japan only sent them two eps at a time. Thus they had no way to put the character's in context and thus had to go with the impressions in the episodes they had available to them.

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Postby Ornette » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:44 pm

View Original PostEva 04 wrote:Of course your asking too much because you still havent defended your position of why you think the Dub is bad.Try defending your own ass before asking other people to defend theirs.

http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=411143#411143

I don't get it, that's not good enough for "defending your position"? Those are perfectly legitimate complaints if you ask me.

Back when ADV was dubbing Eva, they were dubbing them two episodes at a time. Japan only sent them two eps at a time. Thus they had no way to put the character's in context and thus had to go with the impressions in the episodes they had available to them.

They had the entire series. They had the entire script. They didn't want to wait for the DC episodes and had a video release of the later episodes before the Japanese had.

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Postby Eva 04 » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:51 pm

View Original PostOrnette wrote:http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?p=411143#411143

I don't get it, that's not good enough for "defending your position"? Those are perfectly legitimate complaints if you ask me.


They had the entire series. They had the entire script. They didn't want to wait for the DC episodes and had a video release of the later episodes before the Japanese had.


They are but now it seems like his opinion is a fact and refuses to accept that other people think differently from how he was posting. He seems to think that his opinion is superior or something. That's just how I see it from what he posted.

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Postby Warren Peace » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:26 pm

Here's something that may be a bit more productive than all this: How has Grant been in recent works? I realize now that I haven't really heard her in anything but Eva (save a few bit roles here and there). Has she done anything lately that gives you an impression one way or another? Same goes for other actors, too.

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Postby facespace » Thu Dec 30, 2010 10:06 pm

View Original PostWarren Peace wrote:Here's something that may be a bit more productive than all this: How has Grant been in recent works? I realize now that I haven't really heard her in anything but Eva (save a few bit roles here and there). Has she done anything lately that gives you an impression one way or another? Same goes for other actors, too.


That is a good question that you are bringing up, I wonder how she performs in Eva 2.0. I wonder how her voice has aged and if it will be distracting or not.

I pretty much loved the rebuild films in their original language. Also the dubbed version was sort of a blast from the past. I did have few problems with several conversations, for example:

SPOILER: Show
In episode 8, conversation between Shinji, Asuka, Misato, and Kaji at the table was hysterical. "Is she still so wild in bed?" was so great, but the equivalent scene in 2.0 was stale and flat, you didn't get a reaction out of anyone. It was a bust.
[/spoiler]
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