It's something of a catchphrase.

Thats not a catchphrase, this is a catchphrase ;)

Anyway. Topic. I find it hard to believe theres people who moan that much about the dub when they dont have to even watch the dub when both versions are on the piggin' DVD.

No what I want to see are decent commentaries - i find the ones on Platinum NGE patchy at best.

Whats the extras like on the DVD of 1.0?

Really glad to hear that Grant's returning. Dunno how I feel about Tatum doing Kaji, though; I've only ever heard him in wimpy roles (Rikichi, Dororo, etc.) so it'll be interesting to see if he can pull off the "cool" act. Nishimura's voice is pretty high-pitched, isn't it? Not sure if I want a squeaky Mari.

Jayfive wrote:Whats the extras like on the DVD of 1.0?

No commentaries. Just trailers and some behind the scenes stuff set to music. 2.0 has a few deleted scenes though, so hopefully Funi will dub those just for the hell of it.

Da Games Elite wrote:Grant returning is very good news in my eyes. I mean, let's face it: even if you don't like her portrayal in the original series, would you rather leave the performance to someone who isn't very connected to the character emotionally, or chose Tiffany Grant, who happens to have a pretty extensive relationship to the character. If Spencer and Keith both improved since the original dub so greatly, I'm very curious to see how Grant's improved...

Even the re-dub of the Director's Cuts is head and shoulders above the original performance. I watched the two versions back-to-back when Platinum came out, and the difference is striking -- The DC of "Don't Be." is her best work in the series. Sort of makes me wish they re-dubbed the whole show, as all the actors have grown since "Angel Attack".

Hatsumi92 wrote:Not sure if he's on this site but Penguintruth tends to freak out at any dub ever made. Basically his opinion on the dub is right and yours is wrong no matter how convincing your argument may be.

This is inaccurate. I'm fond of several English dubs. Good English dubs. Not Evangelion's terrible English dub.

As for whether I think my opinion is "right", that's a ridiculous accusation. Every living human being in history has, to some degree, believed their opinion over others. It's why we gravitate towards people of similar tastes, because we like to feel like our opinions are justified. If you don't think you do this, you're mistaken.

I know the difference between fact and opinion, but I don't see you presenting any arguments to the contrary other than "derp, he hates everything". If you can't present an argument, don't assume I can't.

One of his arguments being Vic Mignogna shouldn't play Edward Elric in Fullmetal Alchemist, he's clearly being contrary because of the praise the original dub got and the new dub but he says Vic shouldn't play the role of a 16 year old boy because he's 48 years old.

I believe this is pretty much the worst excuse ever. For one he isn't bad at all as Edward, but most importantly isn't that what acting is? Especially voice acting? To portray a variety of characters with your voice alone? Age shouldn't even matter, if you can act, do it.

My argument is that Vic Mignogna lacks any emotion in his Edward Elric and it sounds too dry for many of the very emotional, dramatic moments of the show(s). His age has little to do with it.

I feel the same way about Spike Spencer and Tiffany Grant, but even moreso. At least Mignogna has a good voice. Spencer and Grant have bad voices and can't act. They lack any subtlety and thus their performances as Shinji and Asuka come off as gross exaggerations.

*sidesteps around area set aside for impending argy-bargy*

2.0 has a few deleted scenes though

Yeah, i think i found one on slsk the other day - train scene just before the aquarium section i think - Kaji appears and Misato being flustered. Its only at the line drawing stage though.

penguintruth wrote:I know the difference between fact and opinion, but I don't see you presenting any arguments to the contrary other than "derp, he hates everything". If you can't present an argument, don't assume I can't.

No one can present an argument against "I don't like this because it sucks," and that's not any fault of theirs.

penguintruth wrote:Spencer and Grant have bad voices and can't act. They lack any subtlety and thus their performances as Shinji and Asuka come off as gross exaggerations.

Eh. It seems to me that the chief problem with the Eva dub is the shit scripting and direction for most of the series. By EoE, Spike is tolerable if nowhere near Ogata, and even Grant sounds less pitiful than usual - and as has been noted the redubbed DC eps are genuinely better than the originals. But in general I agree with you - and I don't think too much of Spike's performance in YANA, but then again I don't think too much of YANA in general.

"I don't like this -> because it sucks -> because I don't like it" is mostly what it boils down to. I don't like the dub; there's a lot of things I don't like. Eva dubs have never been as highly respected as those of Black Lagoon, Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, Cromartie, whatever - and probably they never will be - but I don't see the point in continuing to complain about it when the Japanese dub is right there for you to listen to.

So the voice actor for Kraft Lawrence and Keisei Tagami will be playing Kaji, I don't really care either way because I don't like English dubs anymore BUT if I had to pick a voice actor he seems as good as any. Yay for Tiffany Grant as Asuka, I know she'll sound 10x better than the original.

Killer Bee wrote:Really glad to hear that Grant's returning. Dunno how I feel about Tatum doing Kaji, though; I've only ever heard him in wimpy roles (Rikichi, Dororo, etc.) so it'll be interesting to see if he can pull off the "cool" act. Nishimura's voice is pretty high-pitched, isn't it? Not sure if I want a squeaky Mari.

Her voice is not particularly shrill when she plays Rachel in Baccano!, so it's not guaranteed that Mari will sound like a chipmunk.

J. Michael Tatum plays France in Hetalia. Now I have this image of Kaji messing with Shinji's head only instead of kissing him, he is forcing the poor boy into signing a marriage registration form.

In case you need to understand what on earth I am talking about.

Azathoth wrote:Eh. It seems to me that the chief problem with the Eva dub is the shit scripting and direction for most of the series. By EoE, Spike is tolerable if nowhere near Ogata, and even Grant sounds less pitiful than usual - and as has been noted the redubbed DC eps are genuinely better than the originals. But in general I agree with you - and I don't think too much of Spike's performance in YANA, but then again I don't think too much of YANA in general.

"I don't like this -> because it sucks -> because I don't like it" is mostly what it boils down to. I don't like the dub; there's a lot of things I don't like. Eva dubs have never been as highly respected as those of Black Lagoon, Cowboy Bebop, Berserk, Cromartie, whatever - and probably they never will be - but I don't see the point in continuing to complain about it when the Japanese dub is right there for you to listen to.

You can make the same argument about any opinions. In which case, why have forums at all, or even discuss and debate anything? I gave specific reasons why I dislike their performances. Of course those things can be boiled down, but whose opinions can't? It defeats the purpose of discussion to say, "Let's not argue, because people have different opinions."

The English dub is essentially an ambassador to the people who prefer to watch things in English. I find it embarrassing as a fan of the Japanese version that a bad English dub is representing a show I like in poor manner.

That aside, because there was a chance to recast Shinji and Asuka in the case of Rebuild, I just find it a little disappointing that they weren't.


As far as Mari and Kaji, Mari has too few lines to really care who plays her at the moment, but her English VA is decent as Lanfan in FMA: Brotherhood and J. Michael Tatum is a competent enough VA himself.

Does anyone have a favorite performance from anyone who hadn't played any of the characters before?

penguintruth wrote:You can make the same argument about any opinions. In which case, why have forums at all, or even discuss and debate anything? I gave specific reasons why I dislike their performances. Of course those things can be boiled down, but whose opinions can't? It defeats the purpose of discussion to say, "Let's not argue, because people have different opinions."

The English dub is essentially an ambassador to the people who prefer to watch things in English. I find it embarrassing as a fan of the Japanese version that a bad English dub is representing a show I like in poor manner.

That aside, because there was a chance to recast Shinji and Asuka in the case of Rebuild, I just find it a little disappointing that they weren't.

What are you talking about?

The problem isn't that you have a differing opinion; a quick survey of this subforum will quickly tell you that Azathoth and I both very frequently hold rather controversial or polarizing opinions here, in fact.

The issue is that you're not providing anything at all of substance to back it up, other than vague and subjective statements that depend wholly on the presumption that it's bad. I can go into great detail about what I perceive as flaws in the character writing and pacing of Rebuild, and have done so in discussions to support and explain my position to those who've expressed disagreement with them. That is how a discussion happens.

All you've really provided is effectively 'it's disappointing that they're using the same actors, because I don't like them and they were bad'. That's not a point that can be debated at all, because there's nothing of actual substance to it. That's perfectly okay in and of itself, if it's all you want to provide, but that you state you're expecting other people to be able to argue with you about this makes it a cause for some issues. With what you're giving us, there's nothing much to say beyond "You're wrong!" "No, you're wrong!" "No, you are!"

Perhaps a repost from the ANN forum of the relevant posts should be put here? I think penguintruth is referring to those and not what he/she has posted in this thread.

Ah, yes, that's likely the problem. In my haste, I'd forgotten what I had posted there and what I had posted here.

But to go into greater detail, I find that Spencer and Grant don't have any subtlety in their performances. They're exaggerated. Spike Spencer's Shinji is a comical caractiture that is more like your stereotypical cartoon coward character. He lacks that soft, feminine, wavery quality that makes Ogata's Shinji a more sympathetic character. Instead he approaches Shinji with this terrible whine in his voice and this over-the-top stretching of Shinji's yelps and the like. You just want to punch his Shinji in the face until he shuts up forever. In fact, I would wager that a lot of the hate for the character in North America comes from Spencer's performance.

Grant goes at Asuka like a bulldozer, not realizing that while Asuka is loud and proud, inside she's damaged and self-hating, and when Asuka takes her downturn later on in the series, she handles her utter disgust as if it were just ordinary indignation instead a of a desperate cry for help. There's no nuance in her delivery, no humanity. She's just a crass stereotype of a bitchy girl. She almost comes off as a spoiled rich girl stereotype.

And those are just two performances. I can go on about how minor roles always sound like they didn't bother casting actors and just pulled random people off the street for a couple of hours to record. Just listen to Fuyutski. No effort at all.

Funimation had a chance to entirely compensate for the terrible English dub of the TV series, and they decided not to for the twisted reason that people are used to Spike Spencer and Tiffany Grant. Well, I'm sure I could get used to daily kicks to the groin, but I wouldn't want to.

Fortunately, they casted well for some of the characters. I much prefer Justin Cook's Touji to the ADV voice actor. Gendo's new VA sounds more like the Japanese voice, and it works (though I guess I never disliked the ADV voice for him). The Nerv bridge bunny trio are all voiced well, too.

It's too bad, though, that Rebuild wasn't licensed by a licensor with access to the best talents. There are plenty of good VAs at Funimation, but I can't help thinking a studio like Animaze or Bang Zoom might have done a better job.

penguintruth wrote:My argument is that Vic Mignogna lacks any emotion in his Edward Elric and it sounds too dry for many of the very emotional, dramatic moments of the show(s). His age has little to do with it.

I'm only going to comment on this because people have already said what needs to be said about Evangelion's dub and quite frankly I'm humored by you signing up onto this forum because I disputed your opinion.

I have read posts by you (don't ask me to find them ANN is a huge place and I'm not sorting through those news articles) where you say you say a 48 year old man shouldn't be playing a 16 year old boy. That's mostly my main point. If you don't like his performance, you don't like it. Fair enough. But when I saw that (and it was a while back, I think around the Brotherhood cast announcements) it kind of baffled me. I honestly believe you just do not like it because of how well received it is, but that's just me assuming.

But if you truly do not like it, as people have said, the Japanese version is available for you.

Edit: Actually, on Evangelion. If Grant was as bad as you're saying she IS and so poorly received I highly doubt Funimation would of even brought her back. From what I've seen on this forum a fair few people love Grant.

But I doubt they have unbelievably high expectations as you appear to have.

Absolutely -- if you care for the dubs at all, it's highly likely that you do want Grant to return. That seems to be the trend, and I'm happy she's back. As far as NGE's dub goes, I think it needs to be judged by the standards of its time. Greenfield has talked about how difficult it would have been to find a female VA for Shinji back in the 90's, whereas now that would not be an issue. Dubbing was much more rag tag, with a shallower talent pool working from less accurate translations. If NGE was produced today, of course the localization would sound much different.

Recognizing those flaws, I still have a soft spot for the dub. That was the first way I watched the series. These days I almost always go subbed, but I'm looking forward to hearing Grant reprise this iconic character in a trip down memory road. It's pure nostalgia, but I don't see anything wrong with that.

Since I'm never likely to watch ADVs' dub of the original series, I'm fine with whoever Funi hires to play the characters provided they give a satisfactory performance. I have seen the 1.11 Dub, it was decent. Here's to hoping that the newcomers fit in with the rest of the cast and that the returning cast members (from 1.xx) give it their best.

A somewhat Mari-esque appearance by Nishimura at Izumicon 2010:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeBLS1Q9x4c

She purty.

I can even see from her being herself why they picked her for Mari.

Though ive already resigned myself to whoever did Mari to mangle the english accent to UK ears :P