Fuyutsuki states that Rei is a product of his despair, nobody thus that I know of, knows the reason for this unless you use the symbol in the room where Rei was created. Go the animatic (contained in the extras) on volume six of the platinum edition, then go to (on my DVD player it shows up as 010:18:00) the scene with Ritsuko, Misato and Shinji in the Room of Reis. You’ll get a crystal clear shot of the symbol, then look at this:



Keep in mind that Gendo, Fuyutsuki are members of Seele, which is a cult (which uses loads of occult symbols, not least the triangle that is suppose to have 7 Hebrew letters engraved on it, but instead has seven eyes).

This symbol is taken from a resource on qabalistic magick. If you want the name of the specific name of the book then PM me, it would be irresponsible of me to write it openly.

The ring of names around the outside are the names of 72 (or 31, depending from which caste you call) demons, now, this system is very unusual because the idea is to draw out these demons and put them in a body, which is then tied to the magicians will or intent no matter what, usually there is a bargaining between the demon and magician to reach an understanding of what both of them are prepared to do for each other, but not in this case, the will of the demon becomes that of the magician who calls forth its being into a vessel.

Much like the enochian angels, these spirits are very uncommunicative and are not suited to conversation at all, a la Rei.

I think the part in the middle has something to do with…



… and the progressive geometry needed to manifest a soul from the void (and the map for biological growth).

Back to how Fuyutsuki made Rei, like I said in the first paragraph he says that Rei is a product of his despair, obviously his despair is centred around Yui. This is interesting because with the birth of psychology many people went back over occult texts to apply their theories about the psyche to the realm from which the above symbols are derived.

During recent years, many ceremonial magicians with a background in psychology have postulated that the demons of the ------ are the base and negative traits of the human psyche. While there is certainly a basis for this idea, it must be understood that this does not diminish the possible danger of incorrectly conjuring and commanding these forces. These "archetypes," if you will, are not simply within the mind of the magician. They are in the psyche of each individual, as well as in the collective psyche of humanity. To illustrate psychologically, suppose the magician invokes a demon representing anger and ferocity, with the intent of utilizing the demon's aggressive nature to assist him in obtaining employment. If the magician does not properly control his anger, it may break free and cause a severe imbalance.

The shape of Rei is a product of Fuyutsuki’s despair over Yui, keep in mind all members of Seele deal with occult forces. Contained within this vessel is a spirit or demon which is either Lilith herself or, in the hierarchy, Lilith would be Rei’s overlord (which can be interpreted as a mother, amu and ano). To sum that up, Kozo gave his despair substance --- which was Yui-shaped!

In simple english please Zugzwang.

Um, I held my peace about this screwy idea when you were promoting it on ALS and A-F, but it needs to be said: Fuyutsuki did not create Rei. You are reading a concrete, literal connotation into the phrase, "product of my despair" that, in the context of the scene in which it appears, is completely uncalled for, and contrary to the plain meaning of the scene taken as a whole:
---
#23'
(In the Reiquarium; Fuyutsuki and Gendo are apparently in the process
of re-investing Rei's soul into a new clone body)
FUYUTSUKI:
Rei...
She is the product of my despair and at the same time,
the vessel of your hope even now.
In the end, I suppose it was unreasonable to expect you to forget.
---
To me, it is plainly obvious that the point here is to explicate and contrast the significance of Rei's existence from Fuyutsuki's POV versus that of Gendo. Rei came into existence as a by-product of the failed attempt to get Yui back after her "tragic" Contact Experiment. We know that Fuyutsuki is secretely in love with Yui, thus his "despair" over the failure to get her back, which is compounded by the fact the he was the one person in whom she had confided her intention before she undertook the CE.

For Fuyutsuki, Rei is a living reminder that he will never see Yui in the flesh (in her young, attractive, Lilim incarnation, at any rate) again. This is contrasted with what Rei is to Gendo: "the vessel of (his) hope", the means by which he plans to be re-united forever with Yui, when the time comes. I'm quite confident that there is nothing here to indicate that Fuyutsuki's words are to be taken in a literal sense, and besides, do I need to point out that everything else in the series points solely to Gendo as the person responsible for Rei's existence:
---
#25
Rei 1:
Why do you possess a false heart and body?

Rei 3:
They are not false, because I am me.

Rei 1:
No, you are a person whose false soul was
created by the human named Gendo Ikari.
You're nothing but an object living a lie, pretending to be a person.
---
---
IKARI:
Come, let us go.
You have existed for this day, today, Rei.

Rei:
Yes!
---

Zuggy I think your meaking stuff up here man. I doubt Anno gave a second though to reis creation beyond her being made in Yui's image.

Already covered that stuff on the other forums, Shin-seiki, the polarised experience of complementation/the-gap-in-their-hearts by Kozo and Gendo equate to the same totems as seen by Gendo and Kozo during 3I, though Gendo gets the (karmic?) retribution for his actions whereas Kozo doesn't. Hence they're using the same vessel, or the same projection of despair which gained substance for differing reasons, and this is reflected in the final stages of their lives before becoming one with lilith. On the Tree you could visualise this as gendo belonging to the 'right-hand' path and kozo to the left; with yui as the pillar of mildness (which is, remember, the path to godhead) between them.

Fuyutsuki was a member of Seele?

I don't think he was, or at least not a main one

ChronoX wrote:I don't think he was, or at least not a main one

I believe that was a rhetorical question, to which the answer, of course, is not just "No", but "Hell no!"...

Zugzwang wrote:Fuyutsuki states that Rei is a product of his despair, nobody thus that I know of, knows the reason for this

The loss of Yui resulted in the creation of Rei. The loss of Yui is his despair, because he loved her from afar. Rei is symbolic of Yui, and reminds him of her absence. It's simple enough, it's language not to be interpreted literally. It's what is known as a metaphor.

Zugzwang wrote:Keep in mind that Gendo, Fuyutsuki are members of Seele

Nerv is an arm of Seele. Gendo and Fuyutsuki are the Commander and Sub-Commander of that arm. As such, they have to report to Seele. At no point is it ever suggested that the two are fully fledged members of the society. They are merely in league with Seele, not members of it.

:) Monkey this is why I missed this board :)

I think Eva Unit-00 gave birth to Rei Ayanime.

System Shocker wrote:I think Eva Unit-00 gave birth to Rei Ayanime.

Where's your proof?

DatDude wrote::) Monkey this is why I missed this board :)

For the fact that this is the only Eva forum that hasn't banned Zugswang? Or just the schenanigans in general?

That common sence more or less is the law of the land. People will go on for page after page about this show and find meaning in details anno just though would make either good window dressing or a plot whole he fucked up on.

Here the gods of logic and common sence step on those that rant and rant about Rei's blinking being morse code and gendo being a closet homosexual.

Shin-seiki wrote:

ChronoX wrote:I don't think he was, or at least not a main one

I believe that was a rhetorical question, to which the answer, of course, is not just "No", but "Hell no!"...

Yep.

System Shocker wrote:I think Eva Unit-00 gave birth to Rei Ayanime.

Ayanime, Rei's evil twin!

The Eva Monkey wrote:For the fact that this is the only Eva forum that hasn't banned Zugswang? Or just the schenanigans in general?

I think it's 'the schenanigans in general'.

DatDude wrote:That common sence more or less is the law of the land. People will go on for page after page about this show and find meaning in details anno just though would make either good window dressing or a plot whole he fucked up on.

Here the gods of logic and common sence step on those that rant and rant about Rei's blinking being morse code and gendo being a closet homosexual.

Let's leave this discussion for another time.

Deal

On with the show.

No I dont think keel or gendo were ever mentioned as being members of seele. You could say they worked for the orginisation but I dont think either sat at the big table so to speak

Uh I think you meant Kozo there because Keel is the leader of SEELE. :oops:

Opps sorry their my bad

Isn't his (kozo's) title meta-biologist just another name for magician, hence why we have all the occult symbolism tied up with genetic symbolism? Wouldn’t that mean he is part of seele, and gendo looks to kozo as a teacher and isn't gendo an actual member of seele?! (even if kozo was not a member of seele he certainly worked, directly, for them as their magician).

The stuff about being banned everywhere; that's because they can never handle me pointing out all the dynamics and mechanisms behind their mask of BS, which proves they are insane for ignoring such things and trying to sweep-under-the-carpet such assertions.