bladerj wrote:

Ornette wrote:I thought the animation was awesome. I also thought the camrip was crap.

perhaps my term was incorret didnt mean animation per se, but the character model, it became all skinny and and stretechy.

I don't see a problem with Beast Mode's design, it's meant to be flexible and insane, and it surely comes off as that.

I consider the limiters as the default settings or limitations for which an Evangelion can maintain combat without affect to any systems. When the limiter is released, this is now allowing the Evangelion to hit a higher level that is likely to damage systems for extended periods of time.

My analogy for this would be overclocking a CPU. The standard processor speed might be 2GHz, but if you overclock it to 4GHz, you'll get a lot more speed, but at the consequence of more heat, possible instability and a chance you'll damage the chip itself.

As for the 'risks' associated with 'Beast Mode', well, mental contamination is obviously inferred...
I suspect that two other risks would also be present...

1. The risk of the EVA overriding its pilots commands, and acting as it sees fit (if what happens to 01 is at least similar in result)
2. I suspect that the act of releasing the limiters makes it subsequently more likely for the EVA to go Berserk in any given situation...this is pure conjecture, but not at all dissimilar to similar concepts in other works (that is to say, using the SuperPoweredEvilSide often makes it more likely said side takes control)

Quite frankly, Im not sure if the whole mental contamination thing would have much of an effect on Mari, I mean like, think about it, she's already some power crazy bitch who goes zonkers for Zeruel, if there was any variety of mental contamination, it was portraied in the debut of Eva unit 05. An eva should not dance in any situation in exception of beating the living shitout of an Angel. In the situation of an Eva going berserk based on limiters being released, I somewhat agree with your theory however, Im not sure if it's just the limiters. There could be a possibility that Mari can simply induce a berserker state in an Eva Unit. Such as the first fight with Unit 05, she "gave" it an arm and what happens? It rips its jaw open and there we go. Another Berserker. Im hoping that when 3.0 is released, we can get a little more background information on Mari. Well, who isn't?

Eva 04 wrote:Well,yeah.Breaking Zeruel's layer's of AT fields was a combined effort between the Eva and Mari.Unit 02 likely had more power when going berserk because of Mari's help.

While Unit 01 didnt have any help because Shinji was presumly knocked out and couldnt break Sachi's AT field without any way to gain additonal power.

What about the fight with Unit 1 And Zeruel In Rebuild of Evangelion 2.0

Um...what ABOUT it?

x-unknown-fail wrote:What about the fight with Unit 1 And Zeruel In Rebuild of Evangelion 2.0

What about it?That was a different situation then the Sachiel battle.Plus,we dont even know if Shinji had complete control over Unit 01 when it "awakened".For all we know,he could of just willed it to reactivate and Unit 01 took care of the rest.I really dont see what your trying to get at with this.

I think Mari did nothing but use a fancy password to release some of the restraining Armor we know from the original Series. It makes sense that it would look different on an Adam-Based EVA than it would on a Lillith-based one.
It is different from a Berserk because Mari STILL NEEDED A POWER SUPPLY/the lights went out once the time clock reached Zero.
She was just normaly controlling the EVA with it's full power PARTIALLY released (there was still SOME armor on it - I doubt that a normal human could controll a 'naked' Eva)
It's different from an awakened EVA breaking the restraints off on its own, the Soul within unit 2 didn't actively do anything (Why should she? Mari has no relation to Kyouko. Mari appeared to be talking to/combining herself with EVA 02 itself, the monstrous angel-y thing)

What Shinji did is more like what Asuka did in EoE (I kill u! I kill u!), taking control of the Eva's superhuman abilities himself.
Just that Shinji's Eva hadn't just been eviscerated/ was Lillith-Based. I doubt that he was fully understanding what he did, but it was his will that made it happen.
I really like the contrast. When Shinji cried and screamed for his Mommy to protect him, he took a step backwards; We saw an inhuman predator walking on its hand and feet like an animal, ripping its prey appart.
When Shinji chose to demand his chick back, he took a step ahead/ (Third impact or no, he finally realized what he wants, I'd call that an improvement), and EVA 01 acted like something superhuman, devoid of 'animal-ish' characteristics. He didn't rip his enemy appart, he LASERED it appart without physical touch, like some sort of God.

Kendrix wrote:(Why should she? Mari has no relation to Kyouko. Mari appeared to be talking to/combining herself with EVA 02 itself, the monstrous angel-y thing)

Kyoko's not in Unit 02 at that point - if she ever was.

Kendrix wrote:When Shinji chose to demand his chick back, he took a step ahead/ (Third impact or no, he finally realized what he wants, I'd call that an improvement)

Not really, given that what he wants is an eternity of painless nothingness with Rei.

Shinji tangent split/merged into the proper thread, starting with this post. Let's keep this thread about Beast Mode.

It always makes me wonder how Beast Unit-02 would fare with Asuka as the pilot. I mean Mari's strategy, or lack thereof, really doesn't differ from a raging bull trying to take down its obstacle with brute force and little tact. Asuka, on the other hand, can back up her ace pilot status in her performance. Swift, versatile, flashy(LOL), she can utilise the power of Unit-02 to a very high degree. We all see Mari's battle against Zer and it pretty much characterises her as a person who would stop at nothing to achieve her goals, even if it means death and destruction. At first, her strength and control over Beast-kun is promising in the battle but its power was not harnessed to its full potential because Mari didn't have any other plan than RUNNING STRAIGHT AND SCREAMING, TWICE!
Asuka is more survivalistic and so she would probably be able utilise Beast-kun to its full potential using skill and strategies.

On a tangent, I always get grossed out by the fleshy sound when the limiter tubes are ejected. EUGH! How did they replicate that sound so graphically?

Anyways, just my two cents

i've always assumed Shinji was the beast.


anyway, the thing about Shinji is that his special, he could synch with eva, and not just 01, in a way no one else could, except for kaworu and presumably Rei, but without the benefit of their powers. i also don't think what Shinji and mari did in that fight were the same thing. Shinji didn't release the beast he went berserk, and i didn't see any evidence to suggest that he wasn't in control the entire time.

I think it's interesting how Beast Mode fits into the film's meditations on "restraint" and "control". Throughout 2.22, you have people being literally forced into action (Asuka's possession, Shinji's dummy plug). Shinji's flaw (if it is that) was that he held onto his humanity at the expense of all else -- he couldn't kill Asuka for the good of the world. Beast Mode is the complete opposite -- here, Mari willingly casts aside her own (and somehow, the Eva's) humanity in exchange for raw, vicious power. But it isn't enough. 2.22 seems to be advocating for some kind of middle way between Shinji's bleeding heart and Mari's psychotics. I haven't quite worked it out, but I'm sure it's all connected.

^ Nice analysis, though i tend to think that this particular line of thinking goes out the window with Shinji going all Ultraman during the climax, nearly causing a mass extinction event, and "loosing his human form" (as stated by Ritsuko) in the process.

Something i noticed about Beast Mode: all other cases of pilots nearing mental contamination and stuff inside an Eva/Angel involved halos at some point, and, possibly related to that, a lack of the usual limitation of needing an external power supply for sustained functioning (that's Asuka in 03, Rei in Zeruel, who was partially Unit-00 at that point, Shinji in 01 and Kaworu in the Mark.06). Beast Mode didn't have this benefit. Unit-02's batteries ran out of juice five minutes after Mari disconnected the cable.

I wonder whether this will turn out to be relevant somehow in the future, at least in as far as setting Mari and the other pilots further apart.

SaltyJoe wrote:Something i noticed about Beast Mode: all other cases of pilots nearing mental contamination and stuff inside an Eva/Angel involved halos at some point, and, possibly related to that, a lack of the usual limitation of needing an external power supply for sustained functioning (that's Asuka in 03, Rei in Zeruel, who was partially Unit-00 at that point, Shinji in 01 and Kaworu in the Mark.06). Beast Mode didn't have this benefit. Unit-02's batteries ran out of juice five minutes after Mari disconnected the cable.

I wonder whether this will turn out to be relevant somehow in the future, at least in as far as setting Mari and the other pilots further apart.

I'd say it's more to push the halo as representative of the Fruit of Life. But Beast Mode, unlike Unit 01's ascension/merging with Shinji into Red Unit 01, is not portrayed as something that fundamentally alters the nature of the Eva, simply its form. It's interesting, since there are obvious parallels between Mari and Shinji otherwise - both of them activate a special power-up for the Eva that we've never seen before, both of them even change eye colors ffs - and yet one of these things is portrayed as altering the Eva's nature and one really isn't.

Azathoth wrote:It's interesting, since there are obvious parallels between Mari and Shinji otherwise - both of them activate a special power-up for the Eva that we've never seen before, both of them even change eye colors ffs - and yet one of these things is portrayed as altering the Eva's nature and one really isn't.

Thanks for this post, cause it illuminates another fundamental difference between the other Eva/Angel escapades and Beast Mode: not only the Eva isn't really altered, but neither is the pilot. After all is said and done, Mari just gets out of Eva-02 with a few minor bruises, and that's that. No "loosing human form", no "getting absorbed", no mindtrip, no body horror, no nothing. Things that were invovled in all other cases.

Well, except Kaworu's, but i eat my tennis shoes if he is not a non-Lilim entity. Normal dudes don't sunbathe on the Moon without dying.

SaltyJoe wrote:^ Nice analysis, though i tend to think that this particular line of thinking goes out the window with Shinji going all Ultraman during the climax, nearly causing a mass extinction event, and "loosing his human form" (as stated by Ritsuko) in the process.

I don't think it goes out the window -- It gets into "is Shinji a douche?" territory, which I'm pretty sick of, but I think his actions are in line with the rest of the film. Exactly what we're supposed to think about that will have to wait for Q, though.

Azathoth wrote:It's interesting, since there are obvious parallels between Mari and Shinji otherwise - both of them activate a special power-up for the Eva that we've never seen before, both of them even change eye colors ffs - and yet one of these things is portrayed as altering the Eva's nature and one really isn't.

I think we've cracked part of the Mari code -- it does seem likely that she's the anti-Shinji. Shinji is a reluctant pilot, Mari sees it as almost a video game. Shinji is crushed by the responsibility, Mari is just having fun. Shinji doesn't want to hurt anybody, Mari will cast aside her humanity to get the job done. I really think that's the direction they're heading.

Warren Peace wrote:I think we've cracked part of the Mari code -- it does seem likely that she's the anti-Shinji. Shinji is a reluctant pilot, Mari sees it as almost a video game. Shinji is crushed by the responsibility, Mari is just having fun. Shinji doesn't want to hurt anybody, Mari will cast aside her humanity to get the job done. I really think that's the direction they're heading.

You're correct about Mari being Shinji's opposite - there is a reason her hair and eyes are only a shade off of his, we knew that from the beginning. But the one who casts aside their humanity is, very importantly, not Mari, but Shinji. I won't bother to reopen to "ReShinji is a dick" point here, but Mari, for all her green-eyed craziness in Beast Mode, isn't noticeably altering her own physical form - aside from the eyes. When you compare that to Shinji...



...he's looking like more of a BEASTO than her, really. And that's probably not even his real body.

I don't really see that -- Shinji gives up his physical form, but his problem remains (to me) that he's too human. Beast mode seems to be about stripping away compassion in favor of brute force. At least Shinji cares about one person, even if his priorities are out of whack.

It's interesting that Beast Mode (and the Dummy plug) represents Asuka's stated philosophy at the aquarium -- kill or be killed, eat the enemy before the enemy eats you. It's debatable if she really believes that, but Unit-02's pilot at the end of 2.22 clearly does.

inb4Shinji-Wasn't-Being-Compassionate-He-Was-Being-A-Selfish-Dick-Investing-Himself-In-What-Was-Essentially-A-Stranger-At-The-Cost-Of-The-World.