Why the Evas have physical inputs?

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Why the Evas have physical inputs?

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Postby Consul_Elect » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:14 am

Forgive me if this has been raised before.

Something that I've been wondering for a while is, why do the eva cockpits have physical inputs? ie. Control sticks.

The pilots sync with the evas, yes? And as seen in the show they can have all kinds of physical and mental contact with the eva. So shouldn't they be able to control the Eva's movement with their thoughts? Which would make the need for flight sticks redundant. And if the stick ,for some reason, are necessary then why go through the trouble of syncing? They could just pilot it like a normal machine. Plus the sticks they do have don't seem they would be well suited to controlling something with fingers and opposable thumbs.

Maybe I'm missing something, I don't know. Just seem illogical to me.

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Re: Why the Evas have physical inputs?

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Postby Sachi » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:58 am

You need the best of both worlds (mental syncing, and physical controlling) in order to control the Eva.

No pilot can sync 100% with their Eva, and the physical controls only go so far, so a combination of both would be helpful.
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Re: Why the Evas have physical inputs?

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Postby Consul_Elect » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:11 am

View Original PostSachi wrote:You need the best of both worlds (mental syncing, and physical controlling) in order to control the Eva.

No pilot can sync 100% with their Eva, and the physical controls only go so far, so a combination of both would be helpful.


Yeah, I guess that does make sense. It would still make it hard I would think, juggling two control systems.

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Re: Why the Evas have physical inputs?

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Postby InstrumentalityOne » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:44 am

View Original PostConsul_Elect wrote:Yeah, I guess that does make sense. It would still make it hard I would think, juggling two control systems.


I think the analog control is only for moments where precision is the key.
E.g.:That time when Shinji had to use the positron rifle.
Other than that, it´s probably not that important.

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Postby Gamer137 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:24 am

I think they are more for dramatic effect then anything else. At a balanced yet high sync ratio, a pilot can should be able to mentally control an Eva fully while still being 100% in control of the beast.

It's like adding sound effects to a space fight even when its not realistic. Just watching someone sit in a chair, talk, and scream would not be as interesting.

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Postby carla » Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:41 am

there was some discussion about this in some other thread. wish i could find it now. (:|

anyway, the best i can come up with is that all the controls are a way to make it easier for the kids to visualize the movements. i don't recall them ever pushing buttons or moving levers; the eva isn't like a plane, where you can hit a switch to make the plane move up and down and stuff (i know nothing about piloting planes, btw).

basically, the unit will move in tandem with their mind alone, but sometimes "picture yourself walking in your mind" can be a little bit abstract, so they have all these aids to help them picture it. they pull a trigger when the eva should pull a trigger, they push at the handles when the eva is supposed to be moving its hands forward, they probably push their feet against whatever feet support they have in there when the eva should stop its sprint. this trigger, these handles, this feet support aren't necessarily inputs, in the sense that they don't necessarily send a signal to the eva so that it moves; instead, when the pilot actually moves in the cockpit, it allows for the eva, which is synched to the pilot, to pick up on the brain pattern that directed this movement, and replicates the movement in the giant biorobot. basically, the pilot's brain controls both bodies, and it's easier if both bodies are moving.

or, they just need something to hang on to. don't imagine the inside of the giant robot currently fighting an alien monster would be a very stable place to stand on.
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Postby Ornette » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:10 pm

Some more stuff here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=1512

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Postby Consul_Elect » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:46 pm

View Original PostOrnette wrote:Some more stuff here: http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=1512


See, now I searched for previous topic but couldn't find any.

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Postby Eva 02 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:09 pm

View Original PostGamer137 wrote:I think they are more for dramatic effect then anything else. At a balanced yet high sync ratio, a pilot can should be able to mentally control an Eva fully while still being 100% in control of the beast.

It's like adding sound effects to a space fight even when its not realistic. Just watching someone sit in a chair, talk, and scream would not be as interesting.


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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:37 pm

IIRC, one of the biggest theories to explain the reason for the sticks was to have a means by which the pilots could "focus" their energy on... or something like that.
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Postby BeoX2 » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:38 pm

I have noticed that the sticks seem to do whatever they need them to at the time. Hmmm.....
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Postby NemZ » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:25 am

View Original PostGamer137 wrote:I think they are more for dramatic effect then anything else. At a balanced yet high sync ratio, a pilot can should be able to mentally control an Eva fully while still being 100% in control of the beast.

It's like adding sound effects to a space fight even when its not realistic. Just watching someone sit in a chair, talk, and scream would not be as interesting.


Agreed... though it could have been fine without it too. Look at Macross Plus, for example. Guld is basically trying to meditate in the cockpit, eyes closed half the time and the only hand controls in sight being manual overrides for safety features.
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Postby AyrYntake » Fri Aug 20, 2010 12:54 pm

View Original PostEva Yojimbo wrote:IIRC, one of the biggest theories to explain the reason for the sticks was to have a means by which the pilots could "focus" their energy on... or something like that.

I concur. It's easier to think about pulling a trigger while pulling a real trigger than having to conjure up an imaginary trigger and pull it.
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Postby Sachi » Fri Aug 20, 2010 4:14 pm

View Original PostAyrYntake wrote:I concur. It's easier to think about pulling a trigger while pulling a real trigger than having to conjure up an imaginary trigger and pull it.

If this were completely the case, then the need for real, automated triggers would be unnecessary, and a toy gun would be more than sufficient for stimulating the "trigger pulling" action within the mind. However, since this is not completely the case, the controls within the plug must actually have some real function.
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Postby AyrYntake » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:34 pm

And we know this how, exactly...?
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Postby soul.assassin » Fri Aug 20, 2010 10:46 pm

Has somebody remembered the movie Firefox? That's where the concept of controlling the weapon systems by thought alone probably started.

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Postby Sachi » Sat Aug 21, 2010 12:31 am

View Original PostAyrYntake wrote:And we know this how, exactly...?

You're kidding, right? We see the actual control modules they use; they have buttons; they move; and they're obviously mechanical. They MUST do something, otherwise, what is the point? To simulate trigger pulling? I can do that with a plastic toy gun. In fact, there's a LOT of buttons around that trigger. Eva 2.XX even takes this a step further (with even more buttons) and shows Mari pressing nearly all of them while in Unit-05. These buttons must be for something. Whether or not it's the aiming module, or physical control of the Eva, these controls are not simply for mental stimulation or have to serve some sort of mechanical purpose.
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Postby AyrYntake » Sat Aug 21, 2010 9:57 am

Whoa whoa, wait a minute. Mari in Unit-05 is a clear exception to the rule. You've seen the tubes and mechanical legs, you know it's not the same story as other Evas and their pilots. The fact that the controls look mechanical or that they even seem to work in a mechanical way says nothing about their acutal application; for the entire simulation/illusion to work the pilots have to be practically as much in the dark as we are. The more a handle feels like it's going to do something in our teenage pilot's mind, the higher the likelihood of it actually achieving that end.
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Postby Zoop » Sat Aug 21, 2010 11:43 am

Just a longshot (I don't have any footage to support this, maybe someone can look it up?). Is it actually shown that the eva pulls a trigger, when the pilot does? Maybe the trigger is actually linked directly to the weapon to make it fire for a faster response? And in case of the Positron Rifle, well, there is a lot of mechanical/electrical stuff involved there, so it possibly could trigger the systems to unleash the energy and such.

Pilot Finger > Trigger > Weapon
Makes more sense to me than:
Pilot Finger > Trigger > Mental communications > Eva Finger > Trigger > Weapon

But again, I can't remember if it's ever shown that the Eva pulls a trigger. On the other hand, it could very well be a redundant function, so either the EVA can pull the trigger (commanded mentally by the pilot), or the pilot can pull the trigger directly for faster (or plainly more controlled) response.

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Postby simonmagwitch » Wed Aug 25, 2010 3:09 am

I always thought of it like: Engaging the input allows the pilot's thoughts to reach the Eva. Without pushing the control-stick forward, the pilot can move around all s/he wants without transmitting it to the Eva. Activating the stick allows the signals to go to the Eva, which syncs up with the pilot at that point...

In 2.22, Mari pushes the left stick far past anywhere I've seen it, trying to coax more sync out of Unit 05. This makes me think that the sticks control plug-depth or something. The extra buttons and controls could be technical controls for non-movement things. (AC, Life-Support, Radio...)
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