carla wrote:...except when they do. he may have wanted humanity to survive, but he certainly didn't take any action toward making sure it did. he was helping gendo subvert SEELE, but he wasn't even with gendo when he went to set up 3I; he just went along in blind faith that gendo/yui really would let humanity continue on.

i have to agree with azathoth on this one. it certainly seems like he gave up his initial "let's bring SEELE down from the inside" agenda by the time 2015 rolled around.

But throughout the series (year 2015) he doesn't hide his disgust of impacting the human race, and of lifeless Antarctica and of all that. He would descend to an apathetic state before playing along with THAT.

Gendo probably backs him up on this, he only starts Nerv's Instrumentality project AFTER Yui disappears. On the shaky grounds they were (meddling with the designs of some godlike nigh incomprehensible beings and basing their decision on limited information and the impossibility of directly rising against SEELE) their best option was to play along and try to hijack third impact. It may be that 3I was unstoppable, but I'm not sure to what degree the reversal to LCL of everybody was avoidable or not. Rei fucks it all up in EoE when she goes solo and entrusts instrumentality on Shinji's worst mental state ever.

AuraTwilight wrote:Hahahahaha, yea, you keep telling yourself. that. Yui is what appeared to him when Rei was appearing as people's most beloved in the world.

Yes, I can't deny that. I will contend that Yui may have been the one Fuyutsuki most cared about, but he wasn't in love.

Got any support for that? Because damn if he isn't visibly jealous of Gendo and obviously privy to things even Gendo wasn't. All the clues lead to romantic infatuation, and the only refutation I've seen is "He's old and she's hot, he's a teacher and she's his student." So basically the argument of 'it's icky.'

AuraTwilight wrote:Got any support for that? Because damn if he isn't visibly jealous of Gendo and obviously privy to things even Gendo wasn't.

Pretty much, yeah. I certainly took the relationship as poor ol' Fuyu-sensei suffering a bad case of friendzonitis.

AuraTwilight wrote:Hahahahaha, yea, you keep telling yourself. that. Yui is what appeared to him when Rei was appearing as people's most beloved in the world.

She also appeared to Gendo as Yui, three Reis, Kaworu, and a giant Eva biting him in half. You're gonna have a hard time convincing me that Gendo was approached that way because he fell in love with ALL of those elements.

And let's not forget Rei simply multiplying for Shigeru Aoba. I'm pretty sure he didn't fall in love with Rei's fish tank or whatever.

To be honest, I was never quite sure what to think of Fuyutsuki's relationship with Yui. It changes for me every time I watch. At first he just seemed like a close friend. Upon second viewing it looked like he may have been entertaining romantic interest.

Either way, Yui always seemed to symbolize a time in Fuyutsuki's life where everything wasn't in the gutter and continually spiraling downward. There were still the changing seasons, the cool breeze, a quite job. As a matter of fact me mentions these things more than anything else in the flashback episode.

And since he spent those days as Yui's mentor, a person who was the last person he spent time with during the "good ol' days" before Second Impact, Rei appearing to him as Yui always felt like it was trying to spark the old memories of a normal day. And if that's what he's been fighting for all throughout NGE (like previous posts mention), then it would make sense that those memories were most important to him. And that's why he tanged when he saw Yui.

Like I said, he may have been entertaining a romance with Yui, hence the line "So, Ikari. Did you get to see Yui again?" But I don't think there's any way to really prove that using context from any other part of the series.

And in truth, Gendo did get to see Yui again. And all he did was get ridiculed by her.

You did notice that the moment Fuyutsuki tanged was when Yui was kissing him, right?

Monk Ed wrote:You did notice that the moment Fuyutsuki tanged was when Yui was kissing him, right?

You're thinking of Misato. All Yui did to Fuyutsuki was touch his cheek.

She also appeared to Gendo as Yui, three Reis, Kaworu, and a giant Eva biting him in half. You're gonna have a hard time convincing me that Gendo was approached that way because he fell in love with ALL of those elements.

Well, actually it was just the actual soul of Yui, the actual soul of Kaworu, and Rei appearing as all of her selves after Gendo was already killed. It's pretty obvious Gendo is a very, very, very very very very fucking special case.

And let's not forget Rei simply multiplying for Shigeru Aoba. I'm pretty sure he didn't fall in love with Rei's fish tank or whatever.

Lolicons exist.

Though seriously, it's implied he got uncensored Reis because he didn't love anyone.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:You're thinking of Misato. All Yui did to Fuyutsuki was touch his cheek.

I was not thinking of Misato; however, I may have misremembered just how close I thought Yui came to kissing Fuyutsuki. I'll have to check my DVD.

Monk Ed wrote:I was not thinking of Misato; however, I may have misremembered just how close I thought Yui came to kissing Fuyutsuki. I'll have to check my DVD.

She mostly just floats down towards him with her hands on his face...which is a pretty clear indication of kissing intent, if you ask me.

It becomes pretty difficult in a hurry to argue that Fuyutsuki didn't want to get into Yui's pants. He may have told himself it wasn't a serious thing he had for her, that it was just a crush on his hot student or whatever, but honestly: he's pretty butthurt that Yui is going out with Gendou, and I wouldn't say it's a stretch that he was trying to get a date with her by being a nice guy.

This is as far as Yui Transition Guide gets just before Fuyutsuki tangs:



And the script doesn't lie, it states Fuyutsuki is "filled with joy". I'm not sure why he'd be happy to see a favorite student of his--the person he loves and trusts the most--unless he had some deep feelings for Yui.

(The rest are here: http://www.evacommentary.org/episode-m26/episode-m26-scene08B.html )

We know Rei/Adam/Lilith doesn't need to become a loved one in order to lower the AT fields of people (thanks to Aoba case we know she can simply force her way in a horrible way akin to rape). It then follows that she CHOOSES to appear as someone special simply so that LCL transition is "easier" on the people. Then, Yui may have simply been the person that most facilitated the lowering of Fuyutsuki AT field, because she was who he most trusted/cared about. So Yui was there to make it easier, but making it easier doesn't necessarily call for that kind of love.

But well, maybe the love was more obvious that what I remember.

He looks like Joe Biden.

@carla: What I'm saying is that forced to make a decision between siding with Gendo and SEELE (as going it alone probably won't get him anywhere), Gendo seems to be the lesser of two evils.
I'm not sure whether in love is how I'd describe Fuyutsuki's feelings for Yui, but certainly I think he loved her, be it for what she meant to him as a student or as a woman...

Tycho wrote:We know Rei/Adam/Lilith doesn't need to become a loved one in order to lower the AT fields of people (thanks to Aoba case we know she can simply force her way in a horrible way akin to rape). It then follows that she CHOOSES to appear as someone special simply so that LCL transition is "easier" on the people. Then, Yui may have simply been the person that most facilitated the lowering of Fuyutsuki AT field, because she was who he most trusted/cared about. So Yui was there to make it easier, but making it easier doesn't necessarily call for that kind of love.

But well, maybe the love was more obvious that what I remember.

...I'm sorry, I don't mean any offense, but what the hell does this post mean?

From what I gather, it's equivalent to "Rei doesn't NEED to become a loved one in order to lower the AT Field; Rei simply chooses to appear as the person Fuyutsuki loves the most."

...What's the point of this information? I'm not being sarcastic or condescending, I sincerely don't know.

AuraTwilight wrote:...I'm sorry, I don't mean any offense, but what the hell does this post mean?

From what I gather, it's equivalent to "Rei doesn't NEED to become a loved one in order to lower the AT Field; Rei simply chooses to appear as the person Fuyutsuki loves the most."

...What's the point of this information? I'm not being sarcastic or condescending, I sincerely don't know.

the point... I meant to remove the notion that the person needs to be the one they "love", but can be just someone who makes it easy. To most people that would be indeed the one they "love", but it could simply be someone Fuyutsuki had cared about... But you don't need to apologize, since it doesn't make much sense, I guess to *all* people the best option would be the one they love.

Thanks for ruining my idealized picture of Fuyutsuki-sensei.

Yea, I'm pretty sure that the optimal choice would be the person they love the most. In fairness, it probably doesn't need to be romantic love; it just has to be the person who is the most precious to you, so a mother's child may be sufficient, or maybe your twin, or something like that.

But it's really obvious that Yui Fuyutsuki was part of his ideal dream.

Yeah, pretty much what Aura said. Fuyutsuki had feelings for Yui, and by the time the events of the series occur, she's really the only person he has to care about at all. So, like Gendo, Fuyutsuki is holding on to his feelings of Yui.

AuraTwilight wrote:But it's really obvious that Kozo Ikari was part of his ideal dream.

Fixed for great justice.

AuraTwilight wrote:Yea, I'm pretty sure that the optimal choice would be the person they love the most. In fairness, it probably doesn't need to be romantic love; it just has to be the person who is the most precious to you, so a mother's child may be sufficient, or maybe your twin, or something like that.

But it's really obvious that Yui Fuyutsuki was part of his ideal dream.

Yui carrying my last name would do it for me.

But in all seriousness, I just find it odd that that this giant Lillith creature goes to the trouble to kissing or embracing everyone who may have had romantic interests in others (Misato kissing Makoto, Ritsuko embracing Maya), when all Kozo gets from Yui is a simple touch on the cheek. It's one of the reasons I've always seen their relationship being made of a different kind of love, with the romance aspect possibly being only a passing interest from Fuyutsuki.

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:But in all seriousness, I just find it odd that that this giant Lillith creature goes to the trouble to kissing or embracing everyone who may have had romantic interests in others (Misato kissing Makoto, Ritsuko embracing Maya), when all Kozo gets from Yui is a simple touch on the cheek. It's one of the reasons I've always seen their relationship being made of a different kind of love, with the romance aspect possibly being only a passing interest from Fuyutsuki.

Misato kissing Hyuga is more of a sexual fantasy being fulfilled. Sure, he cares for her, but the transition itself consisted primarily of sexual interaction. As for Maya, the embrace is in fact loving and it succeeds in dropping her AT-Field.

Yui touching Fuyutsuki is probably one of the few things he wanted most from her. The majority of their relationship together had been in a strictly professional manner, despite his feelings for her. This may have lead to some sort of frustration for him because he was unable to grow closer to Yui, even in a friendly manner. For Yui to touch him like that (unprofessionally, compassionately, etc) is what he wanted most of all and is what successfully released his AT-Field.

So, basically, there's no set trend that Fuyutsuki breaks in the Transition Guide scene. Each interaction, while fundamentally the same, are different and display different characteristics about the characters.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:And the script doesn't lie, it states Fuyutsuki is "filled with joy". I'm not sure why he'd be happy to see a favorite student of his--the person he loves and trusts the most--unless he had some deep feelings for Yui.

Seeing a long deceased, close friend wouldn't fill you with joy? There's no reason to jump to sketchy conclusions.