Train motif question?
Moderator: Board Staff
Forum rules
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion and abide by them.
By visiting this forum, you agree to read the rules for discussion and abide by them.
Train motif question?
I was reading the Theory and Analysis section of evageeks. I came across the Train section....I'm still reading the rest of the site.
I have a question about the Train Motif section: Are people reading more into that element than what was intended?
Here's what I mean:
1, Shinji and cast, are only 14, they don't drive. Misato is the only one, who is often shown with a car.
2, Character development or exposition took place at school, in the eva, in HQ, in apartment, on escalator, in elevators, in Misato's car.....and on gov. funded public transportation: train?
3, From a production point of view, they are looking for a new, more interesting backdrop to have expositions, chara dev. & other plot points.
So, a train could be used without any prior thoughts into symbolism. Or the: Gainax production member: "it's going to be boring if we keep using the escalators scene for the 500th time?"
4, Trains, or public mass transport, is a common object in Jp society. It will be something in their (Gainax production staff) psyche, or subconscious. Which means that it's an easy pick to use as a background.
On the other hand, the only, from the information I came across about trains, JP did have concerns (paranoia?) about trains being fire hazards when it was initially introduced in Japan.
I don't know if there's more symbolism to trains than the usual "progress, technology, industrial age, travel" etc with respect to early era. With respect to today's era, trains are common mass transport.
I think, personally, there isn't anything to the train motif. It's like saying "The Eva series had tons of the apartment, the apartment must be a symbol for something bigger" or "Eva series featured a lot of shots of character development and exposition in daylight, the daylight must mean something more"
I have a question about the Train Motif section: Are people reading more into that element than what was intended?
Here's what I mean:
1, Shinji and cast, are only 14, they don't drive. Misato is the only one, who is often shown with a car.
2, Character development or exposition took place at school, in the eva, in HQ, in apartment, on escalator, in elevators, in Misato's car.....and on gov. funded public transportation: train?
3, From a production point of view, they are looking for a new, more interesting backdrop to have expositions, chara dev. & other plot points.
So, a train could be used without any prior thoughts into symbolism. Or the: Gainax production member: "it's going to be boring if we keep using the escalators scene for the 500th time?"
4, Trains, or public mass transport, is a common object in Jp society. It will be something in their (Gainax production staff) psyche, or subconscious. Which means that it's an easy pick to use as a background.
On the other hand, the only, from the information I came across about trains, JP did have concerns (paranoia?) about trains being fire hazards when it was initially introduced in Japan.
I don't know if there's more symbolism to trains than the usual "progress, technology, industrial age, travel" etc with respect to early era. With respect to today's era, trains are common mass transport.
I think, personally, there isn't anything to the train motif. It's like saying "The Eva series had tons of the apartment, the apartment must be a symbol for something bigger" or "Eva series featured a lot of shots of character development and exposition in daylight, the daylight must mean something more"
Doctor, explain!
- planet news
- Armisael
- Posts: 917
- Joined: Jan 29, 2010
The reason so much interest is focused on the train conversations is because in nearly all cases these occur in Shinji's mind, not on an actual train. Regardless of what it means to us, clearly trains have a strong meaning to Shinji.
If I had to hazard a guess why, I'd say it's probably because when Gendo abandoned him it was the act of handing him a ticket and suitcase, then leaving him and the train station. That was undoubtedly a very traumatic event, but he was stuck in a train surrounded by strangers on what seemed like a never-ending trip, nowhere to seek comfort except to sink down deep into his own mind, nothing to do with his pain but bury it.
If I had to hazard a guess why, I'd say it's probably because when Gendo abandoned him it was the act of handing him a ticket and suitcase, then leaving him and the train station. That was undoubtedly a very traumatic event, but he was stuck in a train surrounded by strangers on what seemed like a never-ending trip, nowhere to seek comfort except to sink down deep into his own mind, nothing to do with his pain but bury it.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
- sephirotic
- Shamshel
- Age: 36
- Posts: 292
- Joined: Jun 29, 2009
- Location: SP
- Gender: Male
The train dreams are a recurring simbolism in the human mind and is deeply studied and theorized by Freud with different correlations with stages of sexuality experiences.
You can be sure, elevators, trains and oceans shots are not only stetical in evangelion.
Try reading Freud's studies about the dreams, it´ll be very interesting.
You can be sure, elevators, trains and oceans shots are not only stetical in evangelion.
Try reading Freud's studies about the dreams, it´ll be very interesting.
-----------------------------------------------------
Re-watching Eva since 1999
-----------------------------------------------------
Re-watching Eva since 1999
-----------------------------------------------------
- AuraTwilight
- Angel
- Posts: 3334
- Joined: Mar 16, 2008
- Location: Za Warudo
NemZ wrote:The reason so much interest is focused on the train conversations is because in nearly all cases these occur in Shinji's mind, not on an actual train. Regardless of what it means to us, clearly trains have a strong meaning to Shinji.
If I had to hazard a guess why, I'd say it's probably because when Gendo abandoned him it was the act of handing him a ticket and suitcase, then leaving him and the train station. That was undoubtedly a very traumatic event, but he was stuck in a train surrounded by strangers on what seemed like a never-ending trip, nowhere to seek comfort except to sink down deep into his own mind, nothing to do with his pain but bury it.
I believe the first train sequence is the one in which he has a conversation with Leliel/His Subconscious, personified as himself as a four year old, right? So I'd guess this is exactly the case.
J_Faulkner, be warned that some of your statements could be construed as ad hominem attacks. -- Priceless, eternal irony
Anno has perfected the side boob --Gendo'sPapa
Anno has perfected the side boob --Gendo'sPapa
Yes, along with shots of himself crying beside a suitcase and gendo walking away. the next two train experiences (ep 19 and 20) also deal with his feelings of betrayal for Gendo... but midway through 20 it generalizes to feelings of betrayal/abandonment from anyone, thus allowing it to be used in P3II in a situation in which Gendo isn't even brought up.
Also, note that in ep4 when Shinji runs away, he spends as much time as possible on a train, alone in a crowd with his SDAT...
SPOILER: Show
...and in Rebuild the SDAT is revealed to have been Gendo's. Perhaps a final gift to help him pass time on the long trip?
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno
- AuraTwilight
- Angel
- Posts: 3334
- Joined: Mar 16, 2008
- Location: Za Warudo
Note that Toji was just raped by Bardiel, and um...Rei wasn't in the room.
Wouldn't the Train scene' have happend to other charector's to?
Rei in particular.
Why?
J_Faulkner, be warned that some of your statements could be construed as ad hominem attacks. -- Priceless, eternal irony
Anno has perfected the side boob --Gendo'sPapa
Anno has perfected the side boob --Gendo'sPapa
- AuraTwilight
- Angel
- Posts: 3334
- Joined: Mar 16, 2008
- Location: Za Warudo
- Eva Yojimbo
- Redbeard
- Age: 38
- Posts: 8005
- Joined: Feb 17, 2007
- Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
- Gender: Male
Trains being a popular mode of transportation makes them a fitting image to use as symbolic motifs and they are by many directors in a lot of media. Besides Anno, Hou Hsiao-hsien used them heavily in his ode to Japanese master Yasujiro Ozu in Cafe Lumiere. But in NGE the train takes on the symbolic quality of being Shinji's personal hell since it takes him back to the day that Gendo abandoned him and sent him away on the train. If the train was merely meant to be a logical mode of character transportation it wouldn't pop up during the mindfuck mometns and there wouldn't be such extended scenes on trains like those in Ep. 4.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James
I'm wondering if the train motif of introspection on trains drew anything from Sinclair's novel "Babbitt", in which the central character, after concluding "he cannot run away, because he can't escape himself", has a dialogue with his conscience on the train. Considering that Babbitt is a criticism of middle class America and Eva is supposed to be criticizing middle class Japan...
Well, it's just a thought. An amusing parallel, at the very least.
Well, it's just a thought. An amusing parallel, at the very least.
- Monk Ed
- Sunshine Administrator
- Age: 38
- Posts: 8601
- Joined: Jul 12, 2008
- Location: Chicagoland area
- Gender: Male
I suddenly realized a culture gap here that is not being noticed in this thread. In Japan, most public transportation is jam packed. Like, barely an inch of breathing room. The fact that the hell-train is always completely empty except for one or two other people would strike a Japanese audience immediately for its sense of loneliness. There must be nothing that feels lonelier in Japan than being on an empty train. (Except for being on a full one... :( )
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara
- Ornette
- Administrator
- Age: 49
- Posts: 11887
- Joined: Dec 26, 2005
- Location: Pittsburgh/New York City
- Gender: Male
- Contact:
Only during certain hours of the day and on certain trains. I've been in trains in Nagoya during rush hour and could find seats. Trains in Tokyo were pretty crowded arond rush hour, but at night they seemed fine. A good bit of the people who work in Tokyo actually commute from smaller nearby cities, so the lines that run out to those cities are pretty packed. There were plenty of times, especially on a weekday night (trains only run until 1am), where there were only 1 or 2 people in the car with me.
- Monk Ed
- Sunshine Administrator
- Age: 38
- Posts: 8601
- Joined: Jul 12, 2008
- Location: Chicagoland area
- Gender: Male
Ornette wrote:Only during certain hours of the day and on certain trains. I've been in trains in Nagoya during rush hour and could find seats. Trains in Tokyo were pretty crowded arond rush hour, but at night they seemed fine. A good bit of the people who work in Tokyo actually commute from smaller nearby cities, so the lines that run out to those cities are pretty packed. There were plenty of times, especially on a weekday night (trains only run until 1am), where there were only 1 or 2 people in the car with me.
I see... Yeah, maybe it wouldn't stand out any more to a Japanese audience, then. Not that the emptiness of the train car doesn't stand out enough as it is.
System Administrator
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara
"NGE is like a perfectly improvised jazz piece. It builds on a standard and then plays off it from there, and its developments may occasionally recall what it's done before as a way of keeping the whole concatenated." -- Eva Yojimbo
"To me watching anime is not just for killing time or entertainment, it is a life style, and a healthy one too." -- symbv
"That sounds like the kind of science that makes absolutely 0 sense when you stop and think about it... I LOVE IT." -- Rosenakahara
Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 62 guests