Allemann wrote:While Misato cannot be described as a promiscuous woman, she only knows erotic love, eros, itself a form of self-love. This is the source of all her plights.

Pretty much sums it all up right there.

Allemann wrote:While Misato cannot be described as a promiscuous woman, she only knows erotic love, eros, itself a form of self-love. This is the source of all her plights.

Been reading Either/Or, have we?

Xard wrote:Been reading Either/Or, have we?

More like Works of Love, dude. ;) (What appeared in Hongs' anthology, that is.)

Of course if she was a man she'd be a pimp. Le sigh.

Regardless, never saw Misato as a Slut and there are never any signs to the contrary in any version of the animated Evangelions that show otherwise. Shinji does not have to deal with Misato bringing home strange men. We never really see her talking to any adult men in the series except for Kaji and later Hyuga (which from his Instrumentality we see a sexual relation with her was his desire). She's confused about some issues of sexuality and she understands it's power, but she's not promiscuous.

As for Sadamoto...well, the guy's made a career out of drawing highly sexual photos of 13/14 year old girls. He's made fetish drawings of Asuka, Rei, Nadia, and the rest his whole life and has made bank off it. I wouldn't put too much consideration on his views towards women. No one draws the Eva characters better than him but I feel like if he had his way ALL Females would be looser and more subservient.

And Shinji would be a MAYUHN

Never saw Misato as a slut. As it has been said, she used her sex with Kaji as a form an escapism, to feel needed, ect. while ignoring the emotional half of the relationship.

Misato expresses her love physically because it's the only way she knows how to love.

It's not a bad way either, but not what everyone needs. Love is stupid complicated and eternally lovely.

The problem here is that we humans have very subjective ways of looking at the fineries of love.

Freud and others deemed it as merely pleasure, which I used to just agree with and dismiss the rest entirely. Fromm's The Art of Loving taught me quite a bit, however. The way I see love is this:



Apologies for hastily made graph, but look at it: all the facets of love: Loving yourself, loving the other, and loving God (or if not him, your moral foundation) is neccessary to maintain "love".

Misato's love is a fractured one. But, in that respect, so is nearly everyone's. Only when we can suspend the fear and hatred of oneself and the Other can people progress. Same goes for the Eva characters.

Shinji hates himself, therefore he cannot connect with others (Asuka, Misato, etc.) and his relationship with the things that justifies his being (Father, the Evas, Nerv) ultimately fails (see latter half of the series).

I think what a lot of people miss about Eva is that it is the human story, it is the story of Love, and lack thereof.

Expect a much longer thread on this, so in an effort not to drive this off-topic, please keep response pertaining to the actual topic as well.

Expect more shitty charts as well.

truth in television: a lot of people in the tend to equate being naughty, forward or sexually-adventurous to being slutty, even though in reality they're completely different concepts. but since these concepts are all in the "negative" side of human sexuality, the word "slut" has kind of become all-encompassing as an insult these days.

personally, i think the "slut" stigma for Misato, much like everything else in EVA, is a lot more about how she sees herself (and therefore the front she projects to others) than about what the word really means.

we know from EoTV that her parents encouraged her to be a "good child." however, she hated her father and she didn't want to end up like her mother, so she rebelled against that-- she tried to be bad. how? normally, girls would go around sleeping with every guy they encountered. we don't know if Misato did that, but i think it's likely that she at least dated other guys before Kaji, considering how outgoing she already was by the time she entered college (by ritsuko's narrative). regardless, she doesn't seem to take these guys, if there were any, on account when the topic of her sexuality is broached in episode 25.

what really gets to her is that one week with Kaji. perhaps it was the sheer amount of sex they had, perhaps it was the fact that at the time she was coming to see Kaji as someone that was so similar to her father. perhaps both. whatever it was, it scared her enough to make her bolt and after that i just don't think she saw herself the same way. she liked sex-- a lot, probably, but she started to see sex as a bad thing, the way she expressed how horrible she actually was as a person (doing something "disgusting" just as a "take THAT" to her parents), and liking it made her feel even worse about herself. she thought she was dirty, perverted, and to her (going back to my first paragraph) this made her a slut.

stemming from that, there is the way she presents herself to other people. racy clothing, innuendo, flirting-- she may not have been boinking the whole of NERV germany (although she probably dated a few guys), but she may have unknowingly given people the impression that she had an extensive sexual history. we don't actually see anything like this in-show, but you never know where a rumor might start. it's a possibility, i think.

as far as Asuka goes, in their first interactions i actually thought they liked each other just fine. if anything, i got the impression that Asuka found her a little irresponsible, not necessarily a slut. it wasn't until it became obvious that there was something between her and Kaji that Asuka really landed in the "slut" image of Misato, which makes sense: to a fourteen year old girl, this would not only instantly make her a slut, but it would also make her a disgusting, boyfriend-stealing slut. teenage girls can be vicious like that, especially one as messed up as Asuka.

but it still doesn't make Misato a slut by the actual definition of the word. it's not like she was throwing herself at anything with a penis, honestly...

carla wrote:she liked sex-- a lot, probably, but she started to see sex as a bad thing, the way she expressed how horrible she actually was as a person (doing something "disgusting" just as a "take THAT" to her parents), and liking it made her feel even worse about herself. she thought she was dirty, perverted, and to her (going back to my first paragraph) this made her a slut.

Explain to me this: Why did she sleep with Kaji again in Episode 20? I mean, she rejected him and then they did it again. See, this part doesn't make sense to me...

tomrule123 wrote:Explain to me this: Why did she sleep with Kaji again in Episode 20? I mean, she rejected him and then they did it again. See, this part doesn't make sense to me...

She's a slut.

Allemann wrote:She's a slut.

Thanks for pointing out the obvious. You don't understand... this is the man that Misato thinks of him now as her father. If she still hates him but still does it again (and please, don't state the obvious again), why?

tomrule123 wrote: If she still hates him but still does it again (and please, don't state the obvious again), why?

She doesn't hate him. As for why she sleeps with him again:

#20platinum wrote:Misato (OFF):
Ritsuko must be thinking I'm pretty disgusting right about now.

Kaji (OFF):
Indulging our carnal desires is more realistic as humans.
We can fool them a little.

Watch the scene. It's not that hard to figure out.
Tho there is an element of trolling the audience: "Aw, look, the two lovebirds finally get back together!" Next episode... "Damn, he's dead"

tomrule123 wrote: Thanks for pointing out the obvious. You don't understand... this is the man that Misato thinks of him now as her father. If she still hates him but still does it again (and please, don't state the obvious again), why?

She digs imaginary incest.

tomrule123 wrote:Explain to me this: Why did she sleep with Kaji again in Episode 20? I mean, she rejected him and then they did it again. See, this part doesn't make sense to me...

I always figured she did it to get more Nerv info out of him.

That or "fanservice!"

JKun76 wrote:I always figured she did it to get more Nerv info out of him.

MY GOD, WHY DIDN'T I REALIZE THIS?! Her pleasures make him crack more info of NERV. Oh, she's good.

tomrule123 wrote:Her pleasures make him crack more info of NERV. Oh, she's good.

considering how much she bawwed at hearing his death message + how convicted she became to 'carrying on the torch', it's more likely that it was a combination between digging for info & caving to/admitting to the fact that she never stopped loving him in the first place.

tomrule123 wrote:Explain to me this: Why did she sleep with Kaji again in Episode 20? I mean, she rejected him and then they did it again. See, this part doesn't make sense to me...

well, people do change their minds, don't they? personally, i just think it's a heart vs. mind issue. yes, she was disgusted by the way her relationship with Kaji made her feel (that's why she broke up with him in the first place), but this was only one part of her. she also loved him. she didn't want to, and on some level it made her feel like an awful person, but she did. she had contradictory feelings on the matter, she both hated it and loved it. now this'll sound cheesy, but sometimes you just can't fight love

also, maybe i'm just too much of an optimist (or too much of a girl, lol), but i think by then she was starting to realize that maybe things weren't as horrible as she had initially felt they were. i could see her starting to heal, a little. i think she was starting to realize that while Kaji was a lot like her father, yes, he wasn't exactly like her father and the feelings she had for him were real after all. i always felt that's what episode 15 was all about, her confessing all those things to him, because she was starting to see that things were actually different than she'd first pictured them. and maybe it meant her and Kaji had a shot (of course, turns out they didn't because Kaji got shot... )

i'd have to rewatch EoTV to try and figure out how it matches, but EoE at least convinced me that she knew she cared about Kaji. she may not have healed completely by then, but she knew she really loved him. so i guess that's what we saw through the episodes, her warming up to the idea that her relationship with Kaji might not have been as big a perversion as she first thought.

tomrule123 wrote:Her pleasures make him crack more info of NERV. Oh, she's good.

Well, Nerv was as secretive as hell, it was only natural to dig for stuff and get closer to the truthhh that is out thaaar.
But that was only a bonus coming with Kaji. /god that sounds wrong, rewind.
Yeah, srsly now, she did love Kaji and most likely she never stopped loving him. Crying her lungs out on his last message and him being the last thing on her mind (wasn;t her last line if she did the right thing calling out to him, while bleeding on the floor? Have not watched EoE for a while, correct me if i am wrongzz) were probably the finishing touches of the already obvious.