Who thinks NGE should be (seriously) studied?

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Postby ran1 » Sun Apr 11, 2010 4:44 pm

BrikHaus wrote:V would be hugging/glomping you right now if he wasn't already banned from this forum.


Attempting to piss off ZapX?

OMF wrote:Along these lines, I think we really do need an Essay section as well.


DO WANT. Speaking of which, once my April Break rolls around (next week) I'll get back to my montage analysis. I still need to add some finishing touches on my material in regard to episode 14.

Reichu wrote:All I can think about after reading this is the fact that Anno never finished college.


A lot of good artists never did/went. Critics need it though, because academia is a good way to become pretentious.
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Sun Apr 11, 2010 5:05 pm

as long as its not extremist fanatical studying, i'm alright with it
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sun Apr 11, 2010 7:25 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:If one really wanted to study Evangelion in its fullest subtext and implications...
Good post, ran1. A big "+1" to me.

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Western society will never take animation or animated works seriously. Contempt for the animated form is too deeply rooted in its mindset.
I think "never" is a pretty strong word, and "West" should really be replaced with "USA". France has already embraced animation as a serious artform (see Triplets of Belleville and Persepolis) and animation has been a staple of Russian art for many, many years. In the US it's not so much that there is a contempt for animation as much as there's a bias towards what animation is suited to express; primarily either children's stories (ala Disney) or irreverent comedy (ala Simpsons, Family Guy, South Park, etc.). Animation used to express serious, complex, adult, etc. themes and stories have never broken through here. Even works like HBO's Spawn was pretty much a failure.

But I don't think that means that the US will "never" take animation seriously. There is afterall a huge subculture of Otaku and SF fans which don't seem to have a problem taking it seriously. Whether that will eventually spread to the mainstream is another matter though.

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:There's enough in Evangelion for several PhDs... Along these lines, I think we really do need an Essay section as well.
I argued for an essay section on the EvaWiki since its inception. I also definitely agree about there being enough in NGE for several PhDs.

FWIW, to restate something I said in that thread that Merri linked to, I think the biggest problem with getting NGE into an academic setting is that it lacks a niche like Shakespeare has in English Literature or Citizen Kane has in film studies. Japanese Culture is too big of an umbrella to really make one work of anime a focal point; especially since anime is only a small aspect of the whole of Japanese culture. It fits uneasily into film studies because it's actually a TV series; and unlike some TV series that are studied in film courses like Kieslowski's Dekalog or Fassbinder's Berlin Alexanderplatz, Anno wasn't/isn't a well-established film director that went to TV. Yeah, it fits into animation, but NGE's greatness doesn't really lie in its innovation or revolution of the animated form.
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Postby Merridian » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:52 pm

View Original PostObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:Western society will never take animation or animated works seriously. Contempt for the animated form is too deeply rooted in its mindset. This is largely the result of marketing, presentation and self censorship by major producers of animated content.
that's harsh. Ralph Bakshi played with animation quite a bit in the 70's & 80's, gaining enough success with each feature to justify subsequent films. They weren't run-away smash hits, and they certainly weren't in Disney's nefarious league, but the fact that they grossed enough for Bakshi to continue making his flicks says something...

I don't think it's that the West hates animation so much as that the West simply hasn't made up its mind regarding animation. It's generally dismissed as kids stuff, true, yet good luck finding an informed adult that isn't familiar with at least one of Miyazaki's films--and Miyazaki, though mostly family-friendly, isn't kid-specific by a long shot. Anyone that walks out of Princess Mononoke or Howls Moving Castle believing them to be children's entertainment really doesn't have much credibility to begin with. And not to mention films like Akira and Ghost in the Shell that have gained a pretty substantial viewership in the West even outside of the Western-anime fandom. There may not be Western equivalents to these films, but I think a vast majority of the US simply doesn't care how their entertainment is delivered in regards to LA vs Cartoon. It’s just another culture thing.

Jimbo wrote:I think the biggest problem with getting NGE into an academic setting is that it lacks a niche like Shakespeare has in English Literature or Citizen Kane has in film studies.
And I don't think that's really a bad thing at all, considering that there are plenty of other 'neglected' art forms in this vein as well. Hell, I can think of three or four comic books that are equally deserving of study that will probably never be considered for scholarly standardized university attention any time soon. The best one can hope for is for some credited academics to start pushing some paper around, and from what I understand, that's already begun to happen with NGE on some level.

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Postby backseatjesus » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:53 pm

NGE should at least be MENTIONED once in Music Appreciation classes. Film classes, I don't know. I'm not sure many college students would be able to truly handle the power of NGE.

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Postby jim_loves_randy » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:39 am

Image

I'm sorry I just had to.

Only a fan would go sign up for a class teaching NGE, or any other anime for that matter. Otherwise no one goes near it.

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Postby SenorSquiid » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:23 pm

There is a lot of depth to Evangelion, but I don't think it really deserves scholarly analysis except maybe in film class. Anno's a smart cookie, but he doesn't really say anything new about psychology or philosophy, he just presents his own view of it in a very unique, entertaining,w ell made (mostly), robot filled way. I enjoy the that it's a smart show, and I love everything it represents, but it's not really a subject worthy of much scholarly discussion except, as I said, maybe for the film techniques Anno employs, which are eminently clever.
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Postby tomrule123 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:41 pm

View Original Postjim_loves_randy wrote:Image


That is one of the reasons I don't let my parents know about what I watch. They'll go mad if I took an Evangelion course.

By the way, EXCELLENT JOKE!

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Postby backseatjesus » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:10 pm

But you're forgetting that NGE isn't that kind of anime. My parents are aware of what I watch and they don't care. I actually might consider showing them one in the future. It'll probably be Monster though. I don't think they could handle NGE.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Tue Apr 13, 2010 3:19 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:A lot of good artists never did/went. Critics need it though, because academia is a good way to become pretentious.

:thumbsup: Learn just enough to be dangerous. Anything more, and you're just plain annoying.
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Postby tomrule123 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 4:35 pm

View Original Postbackseatjesus wrote:But you're forgetting that NGE isn't that kind of anime. My parents are aware of what I watch and they don't care. I actually might consider showing them one in the future. It'll probably be Monster though. I don't think they could handle NGE.


O RLY? What about EoE?

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Postby backseatjesus » Tue Apr 13, 2010 5:45 pm

View Original Posttomrule123 wrote:O RLY? What about EoE?

Are you really insisting that EOE is a stereotypical cutesy bullshit anime?

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Postby planet news » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:19 pm

Yeah, I agree with whoever said that EvaGeeks is enough. Seriously, who could go deeper than this and with better intentions?
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Postby BrikHaus » Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:57 pm

View Original Postplanet news wrote:Yeah, I agree with whoever said that EvaGeeks is enough. Seriously, who could go deeper than this and with better intentions?

Pretty much anyone.
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Postby AVman9 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 1:14 am

Studied? nah. But respected as something other than "cartoons" by the general population, absolutely.

As the late Rodney Dangerfield would say: "No respect!"
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Postby LeoXiao » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:34 am

I'm going to take the devil's advocate here and say that if Evangelion were seriously studied in an academic environment, there would be a lot of people who spread stupid fanwankings about it, and these interpretations would be made "legit" by the aura of academia. Also, as Evangelion gets forced down people's throats, there will be more people who hate it.

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Postby Captain_Morgan » Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:50 pm

View Original PostLeoXiao wrote:there would be a lot of people who spread stupid fanwankings about it, and these interpretations would be made "legit" by the aura of academia.


Mother of God...isn't there enough wanking already?

But no. No. No. No. Good God, no.
Do it at an anime club if you want, but this has to stay out of the classroom. We don't need more people over analyzing every little thing.

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Postby LeoXiao » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:45 pm

View Original PostCaptain_Morgan wrote:Mother of God...isn't there enough wanking already?

But no. No. No. No. Good God, no.
Do it at an anime club if you want, but this has to stay out of the classroom. We don't need more people over analyzing every little thing.


Yes, that's pretty much what I said.

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Postby backseatjesus » Wed Apr 14, 2010 6:58 pm

Fanwank is a pretty juvenile reason for not wanting NGE to be studied in school. If it bothers you, it's pretty much your own fault for acknowledging it.

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Postby ran1 » Wed Apr 14, 2010 7:16 pm

One can fanwank the endings for many different films that have ambigous endings/lack of resolution, but it doesn't mean that they are not worthy of study.

Examples:
Amadeus
Seven Samurai
The Bicycle Thieves

Just to name three.

Not studying either of those films in any film course would be tragedy. I can fanwank a whole lot about what follows the endings of TSS or TBT, and I can fanwank a whole list of reasons as to who the final laugh was in Amadeus; nevertheless since when does ambigiuity become an excuse for not studying? Even more so, should not a film like EoE be exposed to a large body of intellect for discussion fodder? I love to hear subjective interpretations on cinema, because an essential part of good art is interpretation
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