Key of Nebuchadnezzer Speculation

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition"). The final instalment made its debut in Japan on March 8, 2021.

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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:53 am

SaltyJoe wrote:Something tells me that the Mark06 ain't quite yet the Ultimate Mega Super Evangelion Final Form. Would explain Unit-08 who is actually Unit-01.


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Postby SaltyJoe » Sun Feb 07, 2010 11:45 am

Eh, i support the theory about Unit-08 actually being a repackaged Unit-01. Nothing confirmed, just fanwanking.

On the Key itself: Kaji brought it in from the base where the beginning of the movie takes place, where they were also chopping up Tunneliel for some myterious reason.

Now theoretically, all Angels have the capacity to merge with Adam/Lilith/whoever they are supposed to merge with in this continuity, a goal that is pretty similar to what H.I. is about ("Melding all minds into one"). It was never clearly explained how the Angels would do it aside from A.T field magic.

So maybe this Key is the very something an Angel would use to become one with Mom, and it was "extracted" from Tunneliel in order to give humans the means to do the same.
Last edited by SaltyJoe on Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Halicat » Mon Feb 08, 2010 10:01 am

My very first thought about the key was that it had something to do with Beast mode. I really don't understand why I thought this since Mari obviously didn't need it [Or if the key was perhaps in part intended for beast mode, if so, it puts a whole new dimension on what Mari is.]

But moving on from that theory, being a key it obviously locks/opens something and it's appearance [to me] was similar to a spinal cord, or the tree of life, perhaps it plays the role the embryonic Adam did in EoE with Lilith since it was delivered to Gendo in the same way Adam was?

But overall I think Anno is just going to troll us all with this thing. I doubt its purpose plays out the same way it did in EoE.

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Postby Legendary » Mon Feb 08, 2010 9:50 pm

Halicat wrote:My very first thought about the key was that it had something to do with Beast mode. I really don't understand why I thought this since Mari obviously didn't need it [Or if the key was perhaps in part intended for beast mode, if so, it puts a whole new dimension on what Mari is.]


Actually... we don't know that she *didn't* need it. The Key was at Russio-Broken-English Land, then moved to Japan, after which I don't think we see it again. For all we know, the Key was installed in Eva-02 before it was taken offline for the Eva-03 stuff.

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Postby SaltyJoe » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:09 am

But if it's the "Key to Human Instrumentality" and stuff, then why would they install it in Unit-02, the Throwaway Production Model?

I mean, if the key was used on any Evas at all already, ain't Unit-01 the more likely candidate?

On that note, when Unit-01 goes all God-mode at the end of the movie, it's nervous/circualtory system becomes visibly accentuated, and the Key itself looks like a miniature nervous/circualtory system.

EDIT:
Patched up the grammar a bit.
Last edited by SaltyJoe on Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Legendary » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:43 am

EXACTLY. Put it in the throwaway model for safekeeping. I don't remember if Mari's getting in was planned or not, but either way... If it wasn't planned, then they weren't planning to get the Key again until they were done. If it *was* planned, then Mari needed the Key as a boost.

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Postby SaltyJoe » Tue Feb 09, 2010 8:46 am

^ Hm, interesting proposal. But i think there are a few problems with both possibilities:

1., If Mari getting into Unit-02 was planned... frankly, i don't think that's a very bright idea if the Key is really an item of such massive importance as it's handling up to that point would suggest (secret meeting, Gendo dubbing it the "key towards H.I.", etc).

We don't know how specific Nerv/Seele's knowledge is about individual Angels (the Moon-coffins weren't explained yet, so assuming for sure that they hold the Angels before getting released by Seele would be a tad too sweeping) before they appear, if they have any foreknowledge at all other than they will appear.

What we, and the above mentioned organizations do know however, is that Angels come in very varied shapes and sizes with wildly different attack methods and "power levels". Potentially, each and every sortie holds the risk of the partaking Evas getting disintegrated on an atomic level.

So putting the Key into a biomechanical weapon to be sortied on the frontline against a completely unpredictable foe... that's just too risky. Even if the Key doesn't get destroyed along with the Eva, there is a pretty good chance that it might get permanently displaced (they likely have some method of locating it quickly, though), activating berfore the right moment, etc.

2., If Mari's intervention wasn't planned, at least wasn't expected by those who might have had put the key into Unit-02, there is still the issue of their reactions. Shouldn't Gendo and/or Fuyutski be worried about the Production Model running wild with the oh-so-precious artifact on board?


Personally, i think that the Key was either on board Unit-01, and it was partly what made it capable of transcending at the end of the movie, or the evn more likely explanation: it still in safekeeping somewhere, and is yet to be used.
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Postby Number 44 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:34 pm

Side question, doesn't Kagi mean key in Japanese? What does Mari's name mean?
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Postby Azathoth » Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:25 pm

Number 44 wrote:Side question, doesn't Kagi mean key in Japanese?


"Kagi" does indeed mean "key," although I forget if that's the word used in the film.

Number 44 wrote:What does Mari's name mean?


None of the first names in Eva have any particular significance except Rei and possibly Shinji. Her other two names are both WWII battleships, HMS Illustrious and IJN Makinami. "Makinami" has something to do with waves (nami) but I can't remember what Maki means.

There's nothing to definitively link Mari to the Key of Nebuchadnezzar at this stage. They were both in the same place at the same time, but nothing else suggests any connection between them.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Feb 09, 2010 5:59 pm

SaltyJoe wrote:Eh, i have this theory about Unit-08 actually being a repackaged Unit-01. Nothing confirmed, just my fanwank.

Not to ruin your fun or anything, but I posted the "Eva-08 is Eva-01 in a different body" whimsy right on the first page of that very thread, so I'm not sure you can call it "your" theory... (Though I'm not going to call it mine, either, since I'm sure the possibility occurred to various individuals before me.)
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Postby SaltyJoe » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:47 am

Oh? Sorry, then. Rewording the post to something more appropriate.
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Postby Teague » Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:03 pm

Hmm...well, it is visually reminiscent of a nervous system...
When I saw it, I was reminded of the 'Freak chips' from Hellsing, that could make a human into a false vampire...

That is was collected from the same base that was holding a captive angel, I doubt is a co-incidence. It is almost certainly Angel-borne, whatever it is.

Hmm...I wonder if mayhaps NERV tried to perform their 'soul extraction' on Tunniel and thats what came out...

Or, to conjure something from pure conjecture, maybe it will grow into an S2 organ once implanted into something...

Either way, the parallels between the key and Adam are too obvious to ignore. At the very least, Anoo wants us to assume it will perform as similar role...not that thats very indicative of whether it will fulfill a such a role or not, homeboy could just be trollin'...
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Postby SEELE-01 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:26 pm

Hey!
I said that the thingamabob Kaji delivers it's a serum bag whit a orange coloured liquid (Tv's LCL color)!
And that when Gendo and Fuyutsuki are in space a serum bag is seen floating empty whith remmants of an orange coloured liquid...

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Postby SaltyJoe » Sat Feb 13, 2010 2:32 am

^ The bag floating around on the spacecraft is just regular astronaut food, IMO.
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Postby Enki v.2 » Wed Feb 24, 2010 9:38 am

Azathoth wrote:
Reichu wrote:I wonder what any possible connection to IRL Nebuchadnezzar could be.


Probably just another case of "I chose it because it sounds complicated," but on the off-chance that it's not, I'd say it's connected to the whole Fiery Furnace deal. Rebuild is indeed a little preoccupied with the distinction between a "false god" (Evangelion [with S2 organ?] controlled by a human?) and a "true god" (if Mark-06 is intended to be this, then I would assume an Evangelion with an S2 organ and no soul but that of Adam, its pilot), and that's how the Fiery Furnace story starts out.

Nebuchadnezzar builds a giant god out of gold and demands that everyone worship it. Since they think of it as a false god, three of the Jews do not bow down to it; Nebuchadnezzar throws them into a fiery furnace. However, they are then miraculously saved by a fourth dude who pops up out of nowhere, and looks like "a son of the gods." (I think the historical Christian interpretation of this has been that it's Jesus, while the more traditional Jewish view is that it's an Angel.) And then Nebuchadnezzar realizes that he's messed with a true god and immediately decides not to be such a dick in future.

Kaworu certainly could be said to look like a son of the gods, since that's close enough to a description of his function. And he kind of does wind up popping out of nowhere to haul humanity out of the metaphorical fire.

Unfortunately, Nebuchadnezzar is never mentioned in conjunction with any key in any Biblical text, which is why I conclude that it's another example of lol anno.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebuchadnezzar wrote:While boasting over his achievements, Nebuchadnezzar is humbled by God. The king loses his sanity and lives in the wild like an animal for seven years. After this, his sanity and position are restored and he praises and honors God. There has been some speculation on what the organic cause of this insanity, assuming the story is true, might have been. Some consider it to be an attack of clinical lycanthropy or alternately porphyria. Based on descriptions of Nebuchadnezzar's actions and physical traits, psychologist Henry Gleitman claims that Nebuchadnezzar's descent into insanity was a result of syphilis infection. Gleitman believes his odd behavior was actually general paresis or paralytic dementia seen in advanced cases of syphilitic infection.[12]


Maybe an association with The Beast? Assuming, of course, the biblical rather than historical context. In the historical context, he's known for building and rebuilding a number of well known Babylonian constructions (including the Ishtar Gate and ETEMENANKI -- a ziggurat associated by historians with the Tower of Babel described in the Book of Enoch, though not so much with the Tower of Babel described in Genesis).

Edit: bonus:
wikipedia wrote:Some scholars[who?] think that Nebuchadnezzar's portrayal by Daniel is a mixture of traditions about Nebuchadnezzar — he was indeed the one who conquered Jerusalem — and about Nabonidus (Nabuna'id). For example, Nabonidus was the natural, or paternal father of Belshazzar, and the seven years of insanity could be related to Nabonidus' sojourn in Tayma in the desert. Fragments from the Dead Sea Scrolls, written from 150 BC to 70 AD[13] state that it was Nabonidus (N-b-n-y) who was smitten by God with a fever for seven years of his reign while his son Belshazzar was regent.

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Postby cat42 » Mon Apr 12, 2010 11:41 pm

View Original PostTeague wrote:Or, to conjure something from pure conjecture, maybe it will grow into an S2 organ once implanted into something...


The missing number thing makes me want to hypothesize that it is indeed an S2 engine, and came from an angel that didn't get numbered, perhaps. I could easily see and S2 engine being the key to the 3rd Impact.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 13, 2010 7:59 am

View Original Postcat42 wrote:The missing number thing makes me want to hypothesize that it is indeed an S2 engine

BUT IT ISN'T A DOUBLE HELIX. (...is it?)
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Postby darthikari » Thu Apr 15, 2010 7:08 am

Um, just a thought here, but anyone else think the key is in that spiffy new black dummy plug? I mean we all saw how lovingly Gendo caressed it as it was being installed...
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Postby SaltyJoe » Thu Apr 15, 2010 8:59 am

^ Could be. The caress could mean a lot of things. Personally, i think putting something into his wife simply made Gendo feel all romantic. ...i'm horrible
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Postby User-iel » Thu Apr 15, 2010 11:16 am

Unless it's good for 3G and WiFi, I can't imagine that NnK should be in that, or other Plugs. Try the easy path. This is living, biological material. We've been shown the shape before - the Tree of Life. This shape is an alternate development of the Lance. So there are two currently equal probabilities associated with that.
A)It is the embryo of a Lance, or...
B)It is the coressponding part that is engineered into Seeds, and therefore perhaps Angels, to regulatate them when the Lance is in action.
Since Kaji THINKS it is the "guidepost towards the unification of all souls unto God", I'm voting for A). But Kaji is not our reliable narrator, at all times. Maybe Gendo has a different goal for 3I in this film, therefore different parts get used?


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