EoE: anonymous dead NERV girl is dead

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Postby flapjack » Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:23 am

View Original PostLeoXiao wrote:How did the JSSDF suffer so many casualties? They're special forces after all.


this is what im thinking too. a nerv worker bee takes out a soldier bee after getting shot 3 times? it seems to me that the whole JSSDF scenes had no real importance other than amplifying the tragedy, and this is a scene of struggle and hopelessness. All that aside its probably just used to show the gunfights have stopped and the focus is now fully on the evas

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Postby Miche' » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:32 pm

Going back to the original post, the image can be interpreted that the woman is still alive, if potentially fatally wounded. I wonder if this is some kind of (small) precursor to the decision Shinji has to make in the 2nd half of EoE; that is to remove oneself from suffering. In the case of the NERV woman, to turn the gun on herself rather than witness more tragedy and ugliness, whether from the JSSDF soldiers, or even things that she would have to do to survive herself (i.e. kill others). One of the first things I noticed about the image was the manner in which she is holding the gun: it's in her hands, but she isn't gripping it in an aggressive manner, ready for action in an offensive sense. It's almost gentle and contemplative.

I don't know, I could be reaching hard with this, but it's a different perspective I think to what has been mentioned thus far (which has been very interesting, of course).

Oh yeah: first post, etc.
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Postby supershinjiasukashipper » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:34 pm

the answer is, a character of no consequence. she was a random character, none of the ones we know. don't mean to sound crass, but she has just as much revelance as jet alone.
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Postby ran1 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:40 pm

supershinjiasukashipper wrote:the answer is, a character of no consequence. she was a random character, none of the ones we know. don't mean to sound crass, but she has just as much revelance as jet alone.


To say that is to essentially deny the intense allegory and subtext that often manifests itself in EoE. The juxtapoistion of character, motivation, and final result within that shot is undoubtedly a commentary on the nature of violence, to deny it that would be doing it a great injustice.

And Jet Alone is more significant than you seem to be giving it credit for-- The production team of Eva deemed it important enough to build an entire episode around it.

In other words, fallacious statement is fallacious.
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Postby NemZ » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:41 pm

EDIT:

out of line comment removed... though the sentiment remains pure.

Baz is right, I certainly wasn't referring to you, ran1.
Last edited by NemZ on Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ran1 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:49 pm

NemZ wrote:...Both of which are more relevant to this forum than anything you've said in recent memory.


:ehh: Ouch. Way to use my own attempt at education right back at me.
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Postby Baz » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:51 pm

ran1, look at the post timestamps. The comment wasn't directed at you.
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Postby supershinjiasukashipper » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:51 pm

@ran1:
but there were so many messages that were more complex, i prefer those.
and jet alone had no real point, the episode was only a way to inroduce NERV's corruption, and give Shinji a chance to play the hero.
they could have introduced that in another more relevant way really.

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Postby Legendary » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:54 pm

It also showed us Misato's willingness to be professional, to show that the world is increasingly frustrated with the demands Nerv makes upon it, to show that Shinji and Misato could care about each other... Etc, etc.

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Postby ran1 » Wed Mar 17, 2010 5:59 pm

SSAS wrote:but there were so many messages that were more complex, i prefer those.


Edited out "implying" line. This isn't 4chan -OMF

wat. So you don't like a message conveyed because its too simple? Afraid that others might find out the gnostic truth of Evangelion? In all honestly, I am utterly confused as to why this shot has recieved your dislike. As you oft assert yourself to be a Catholic, wouldn't it make sense for you to appreciate the critique of violent action demonstrated by the subtext of the shot?

they could have introduced that in another more relevant way really.


By all means, suggest a better way to convey these following things in one shot:

-Critique of violent action in terms of the JSDF invasion
-Subtle appreciation of Maya's pacifism
-Notation that the fighting in Nerv has completely died down.
-Nerv put up some sembalance of a fight prior to 3I.

and jet alone had no real point, the episode was only a way to inroduce NERV's corruption, and give Shinji a chance to play the hero.


In your attempt at denying the episode any meaning, you just gave it some, albeit a very watered down one, but a meaning nonetheless.

EDIT: Oh man, misinterpreted NemZ's post. My bad.
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Postby tehprognoob » Sun Mar 21, 2010 3:14 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:Everybody at Nerv has some basic training with a firearm, and most probably have higher forms of training, considering that most of them may have transferred from other military positions. So it's not quite surprising that they were able to put up quite a fight against the JSSDF.

In addition, Nerv is fighting a defensive battle against an exposed enemy that everyone can make out to be an enemy. (SSDF ninja gear doesn't usually camouflage, does it? >_<) Up until the big blackout in Ep. 11, (I think) no one's really taken a good look at Nerv, and a dummy program was ran during the blackout, and considering Ritsuko's skillz... I don't think SSDF would know much about Nerv's layout, while Nerv's security would know it like the back of their hands. Who's to say no Nerv people suddenly burst out of an unknown janitor's closet and strafed a coupla SSDF soldiers?
It's just like the good old guerrilla warfare days back in China. (WWII, Korea, maybe Vietnam) You give a lethal barrage, and you run as fast as you can before the other guy finishes shaking his head and going, "wtf was that?". Nerv's people know their place, its nooks and crevices, arms closets and such. So they have that advantage over SSDF. Plus, they're fighting for their own survival, a very, very good motivation, unlike the soldiers, who could only hope for a bonus pay at the end of the battle and maybe a promotion, or a couple decorations for valor.

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Postby cat42 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:29 pm

I believe the shot is meant to demonstrate the reason instrumentality needs to happen. Because people are unable to understand each other, war happens and this violence happens.

In universe wise, they killed each other, I think. Most likely she got off a lucky shot or two while he didn't score any immediate kill shots. She probably bled to death a little while after killing the soldier. This would explain to me why the gun is held loosely, because she was no longer in active defense mode.

My understanding of why there is no more shooting is the JSSDF slaughtered everyone (just about) and were then choosing to bomb areas, so they pulled most of their people out (like when Misato is blown up). After they pulled out, whoever was left outside died when Shinji and Unit-01 freaked out over the death evisceration and desecration of Unit-02 and Asuka.

The real reason why she looks like Maya, I think, is primarily because it's a quick shot, so are they really going to spend so much time on a new character design? It's kinda really the back of Generic NERV female #4's head. Any similarity to Maya is coincidental, and gravy as far as Anno-tachi is concerned.

EDIT++++
Looking at the image again, it seems to me that this girls hair is longer than Maya's.

Image

The reason for the guns being similar would likely be it's just NERV's standard issue pistol. Didn't Misato have one the same make as well?
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Postby supershinjiasukashipper » Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:53 pm

View Original Postran1 wrote:Edited out "implying" line. This isn't 4chan -OMF

wat. So you don't like a message conveyed because its too simple? Afraid that others might find out the gnostic truth of Evangelion? In all honestly, I am utterly confused as to why this shot has recieved your dislike. As you oft assert yourself to be a Catholic, wouldn't it make sense for you to appreciate the critique of violent action demonstrated by the subtext of the shot?



By all means, suggest a better way to convey these following things in one shot:

-Critique of violent action in terms of the JSDF invasion
-Subtle appreciation of Maya's pacifism
-Notation that the fighting in Nerv has completely died down.
-Nerv put up some sembalance of a fight prior to 3I.



In your attempt at denying the episode any meaning, you just gave it some, albeit a very watered down one, but a meaning nonetheless.

EDIT: Oh man, misinterpreted NemZ's post. My bad.

Dude, the relevant way comment was on the jet alone episode comment i made.
As for symbology, like I said, bigger messages strike me, like the use of a certain musical piece at a certain time with a character, or, the signifigance of Unit-01 becoming part of that seraphetic system.

In fact, I'm going to make a thread about that.
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Postby ran1 » Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:03 pm

bigger messages strike me


Okay, so bigger messages strike you. Does that mean that "smaller messages" are proven irrelevant by "larger" ones? I see a flaw in that kind of logic.
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Postby TheLobe » Thu Apr 22, 2010 7:01 am

There's very little reason to think the way she holds the gun implys that she has "given up" or doesn't want to shoot anyone, we just connect it with how Maya holds her the gun. She's dead its a bit hard to hold the gun outstretched, and since the ssdf guy was dead she probably killed him.

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Postby exrider » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:15 am

Who is the suspect of this crime?

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Postby AuraTwilight » Thu Jul 22, 2010 12:53 pm

Some random person.
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Re: EoE: anonymous dead NERV girl is dead

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Postby The Fourth Evangelion » Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:25 pm

View Original PostSachi wrote:EDIT: We also get the streak of blood left on the Moon, if that holds any relation to these three shots.


This marks yet another example of the great amount of the use of number four in the EVA franchise , so imho, that basically covers the whole reason behind this bloodstreak.
http://forum.evageeks.org/viewtopic.php?t=9237
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