I hope you enjoy the rest of Nodame (first season), I think it's a great show, and I'm a little surprised you'd jump into this genre.

Well, I guess sometimes I punch myself in the crotch too, and a few times, it's pretty awesome.

Nodame (first season) was one of the best anime I've ever watched, qualitatively speaking. I still haven't watched the rest though...

That's awesome, Brik. It's one of my favorites of all time. I dunno that you'll J in your Ps like me, Tok, and Ornette did but I'm sure you'll enjoy it. It lacks all the moedom and fan service of the rest of the shitty animus out there and focuses on the great characters.

'Now and Then, Here and There'....I'm 6 episodes in. It's incredibly bleak and depressing but it's good.

alabaster wrote:'Now and Then, Here and There'....I'm 6 episodes in. It's incredibly bleak and depressing but it's good.

RA RA RUUUUUUUUU

Macross Zero was awesome. TBH though, as awesome as the dogfights were, I liked the dogfights in Plus a lot more. But liked Plus a lot more anyway--wasn't quite as zomgapocalyptic, but I think it had a better grasp of itself and was developed better.

not to mention 2D > 3D

LiLi wrote:Finally started watching Shin Mazinger Shougeki! Z Hen.

That looked pretty cool.

Merridian wrote:But liked Plus a lot more anyway

Seconded (Well, I abandoned Zero halfway, so...)

That looked pretty cool.

Indeed it did! Did you watch the whole series?
Although first episode was pretty confusing,

I liked the repolished Nagai-an style. Looks much better than KoutetsuSHIN JEEG so far, IMO.

Restarted Azumanga DaiOh today. TBH so far I prefer Sensei no Ojikan. :bricked:

:EDIT: Merridian, I notice you have Monster ON HOLD? \0/

Merridian wrote:Macross Zero was awesome. TBH though, as awesome as the dogfights were, I liked the dogfights in Plus a lot more. But liked Plus a lot more anyway--wasn't quite as zomgapocalyptic, but I think it had a better grasp of itself and was developed better.

not to mention 2D > 3D

Macross Frontier (*coughcoughfinalepcoughcough*) has my favourite fights followed very closely behind by Macross Plus. It has best 3D & usage of it I've seen in tv anime, vastly superior to MZ when it comes to aesthetics

Still, the sheer abundance of crazy ass fights in MZ is quite winrar.

I think I gave MZ 8 (SDF was 9, Plus/Frontier/DYRL are all 10 to me)

...I'm just worried that due to my completionist quirks I'll propably end up watching Macross 7 one of these days

LiLi wrote: (Well, I abandoned Zero halfway, so...)

LiLi wrote: Indeed it did! Did you watch the whole series?

no. I haven't even seen a single ep, yet. I DID see some sort of promo on youtube awhile back, though. :)

Xard wrote: I think I gave MZ 8 (SDF was 9, Plus/Frontier/DYRL are all 10 to me)

That looks about like mine. I gave Plus & Frontier 10’s, but SDF, Zero, and DYRL 9’s. I might up DYRL when I rewatch it this weekend, though, and I may knock down Zero with time. Sometimes my ratings fluctuate after I've had time to stew in my critical juices. But I know for sure that the scores for Frontier, Plus, and SDF aren't going anywhere.

I'm about to watch Genocyber soon since I order the complete set on the web.

LiLi wrote::EDIT: Finally started watching Shin Mazinger Shougeki! Z Hen.

You know that the series ends on a cliff-hanger, right? It's pretty typical Go Nagai, though, the entire narrative is driven by characters telling each other the plot, then they fight sometimes.

Finished Oniisama E/Brother, Dear Brother
EP 33 – SO FUCKING SAD o god whyyyyy

Watching this really just makes the melodrama in stuff like Welcome to the NHK seem even worse. This show rocked. Hard. Directing, color pallet, character development, "twists", everything was almost perfect. It made me care about moronically trivial crap like 'zomg high school doramma', yet it also threw really heavy hard-balls that resonated pretty damn well with me (like Ep 33 & subsequent fallout)--and that ending was... just... perfect. It was refreshing. Especially after the particularly dark tone of the last arc(s).

Favorite character was Tomoko, hands down. But I think the character I found the most interesting was Kaoru-no-Kimi, who possessed levels of badassitude heaped in Major Kusanagi proportions.

I want to write a review for it, but I can’t seem to collect my thoughts well enough. Damn. Maybe I’ll work on one later…

Oh man. I think I'm OD-ing on good anime right now, what with having completed this & MF (and I've just started Escaflowne... 4 eps in & it's awesome). Now I fear everything is going to suck in comparison for a little while. :(

LiLi wrote: :EDIT: Merridian, I notice you have Monster ON HOLD? \0/

DVDs. I have the first 15 eps, and yeah I could dl the rest, but since it’s been licensed/released already I have no problem waiting and digesting it in 15-ep chunks.

you know Merri, I'll get Escaflowne within day or two

group watching tiem

^Sounds good to me :)
I'll hold off on watching more until you catch up, then (I'm only 4eps in anyway). Mean time I'll finally break into MSGundam, methinks.

EDIT
I'm two eps into MSG, and I gotta admit, it's a lot better than I was expecting. These two eps beat the pants off of Ideon's first two, and the set-up looks like it'll actually have a plot that extends beyond "here come more corpses! run away! fight! die! run away! here come more corpses!", as well as room for ample develoment. My hopes are high.

Also think I hit jackpot! Found the Dallos OVA online finally. I've been looking for this for quite awhile. too bad it ain't on DVD otherwise I'd scoop this sucker up real quick

Finally got around to finishing Spice and Wolf. The economics thrown into the show threw me for a loop at first but I got used to it. The whole love aspect of the show was well done and the characters (for the most part) were believable. Good visuals too.

Also started watching Gundam 0079 again.

Merridian wrote:It made me care about moronically trivial crap like 'zomg high school doramma'

I know the feeling...
Dezaki:

that ending was... just... perfect. It was refreshing. Especially after the particularly dark tone of the last arc(s).

I still haven't worked up the nerve to watch those last two episodes, even though I finally re-acquired them... I will after a complete rewatch and I hope they won't disappoint.

But I think the character I found the most interesting was Kaoru-no-Kimi, who possessed levels of badassitude heaped in Major Kusanagi proportions.

You probably should watch RoV after all...

I really like badassu characters such as Kaoru-no-Kimi...

BTW, out of curiosity, have you seen Aoi Hana?

I bought The Sky Crawlers on DVD today, so that's what I'm currently watching.

Lili wrote:I bought The Sky Crawlers on DVD today, so that's what I'm currently watching.

Compared with the rest of Oshii's filmography, it isn't that great. It's redeeming at some points, but the pacing is slow to a fault. The airplane fight scenes break up the monotony occasionally, but the cinematography on those wasn't all that spectacular, either.

LiLi wrote: I still haven't worked up the nerve to watch those last two episodes, even though I finally re-acquired them... I will after a complete rewatch and I hope they won't disappoint.

I liked the last two a lot, but there IS a noticeable change of tone. I can imagine how the manga ends…

LiLi wrote: although I noticed that often in anime they end up constricted in somewhat more "traditional" roles. IT BURNS. IT MAKES ME BITTER.

How do you mean? I thought Kaoru was handled extremely well in Oniisama E—and I think I know what you’re referring to as far as how characters like her are regularly handled these days, but I’m not so certain… Most “zomg high school doramma” animus have me gouging my eyes out in general, and for the most part, I haven’t really seen a whole lot of Kaoru-no-Kimis in anime. Or maybe I’m just not perceiving them properly

LiLi wrote:I bought The Sky Crawlers on DVD today, so that's what I'm currently watching.

ran1 wrote: Compared with the rest of Oshii's filmography, it isn't that great. It's redeeming at some points, but the pacing is slow to a fault. The airplane fight scenes break up the monotony occasionally, but the cinematography on those wasn't all that spectacular, either.

Sky Crawlers is awesome. Yeah it ain’t Patlabor 2, GitS, Angel’s Egg, et al but still it’s pretty damn good compared to GitS 2: Innocence. And if those dogfights didn’t have you on the edge of your seat going “WHOA FUCKIN AWESOME” then I don’t know what will… That film had me playing Blazing Angels and Crimson Skies for weeks afterward. What's your take on some of Macross's dogfights?

And as far as Oshii goes, I thought the pacing was fairly typical. Both GitS films and both Patlabor films followed similar fast-slow-slow-fast-slow-FASTWTFAWESOME pacing, really. I think the difference between those and Sky Crawlers was the lack of “eye candy” found in most of the rest of his works—the visuals are still extremely lush, but instead of cityscapes & “urban jungles”, it’s all countryside & open sky, leaving very expansive, plain-looking shots to dominate a great deal of the film. This doesn't really make it better or worse than the rest of his films, since I think he handles most of the cinematography with finesse & creativity surpassing Beautiful Dreamer, the first Patlabor OVA, even the first Patlabor film. The CGI integration was sorta 'meh' for the most part, but the 3XTR3M3!!!1! dogfights more than made up for this IMO. The only shows that rivaled/surpassed the acrobatics in Sky Crawlers that I've seen would all be from the Macross franchise.

I don’t think it’s on the same level as his ‘masterpieces’, but considering how uneven GitS 2 was, I think Sky Crawlers was a vast improvement.

Merridian wrote:And as far as Oshii goes, I thought the pacing was fairly typical.

I think what makes GiTS better in this regard is that the underlying suspense that exists in the narrative. I was really intrigued by the actions of the Puppet Master, and his presence made the slower paced moments scenes with an undercurrent of supsense.

The CGI integration was sorta 'meh' for the most part, but the 3XTR3M3!!!1! dogfights more than made up for this IMO

I honestly have no idea where those were. All of the dogfights (with the exception of the final one, and even that wasn't spectacular) were "meh" worthy.

This doesn't really make it better or worse than the rest of his films, since I think he handles most of the cinematography with finesse & creativity surpassing Beautiful Dreamer, the first Patlabor OVA, even the first Patlabor film.

Maybe Beautiful Dreamer (really big maybe), probably the Patlabor OVA, but the first Patlabor film, no.

I don’t think it’s on the same level as his ‘masterpieces’, but considering how uneven GitS 2 was, I think Sky Crawlers was a vast improvement.

Compared to GitS 2, yes, I'll agree with you there. But I would have to say that it's hard to make an uneven film with the formula of "Action followed by half hour of dialouge" formula. My major complaint was that the "Action" i.e. the dogfight scenes existed almost independently of a major portion of the dialogue. Although the element of "I remember you, you don't remember me" was there for awhile, it reached annoying meta-status by the midpoint, where the audience was lead into directionless plot traps where little came of the dialogue building up to that point.

ran1 wrote: I think what makes GiTS better in this regard is that the underlying suspense that exists in the narrative.

No disagreement here, but remember that GitS is better than most of his filmography. Also, in using GitS as “template” for interpretation of Sky Crawlers, I’d say that the looming wartime feeling presiding over literally every aspect of the plot is rather analogous to the Puppet Master’s omnipresence in GitS, only taken to the next level of “removed-ness”. There’s obviously something sinister-yet-unspoken going on with the higher-ups in command, no one really knows what is going on regarding these kids that aren’t really kids, nor with the war, nor really with how “normal people” live.

ran1 wrote: Maybe Beautiful Dreamer (really big maybe), probably the Patlabor OVA, but the first Patlabor film, no.

First Patlabor film wasn’t terribly creative with shooting, and Beautiful Dreamer wasn’t really creatively shot, either (well-shot, solid, but pretty straight-forward). What made both work was what was IN the frames being composed—i.e. Patlabor 1’s city & mechs, and BD’s surrealism. TBH I found BD far more interesting visually than Patlabor 1 anyway.

ran1 wrote: I honestly have no idea where those were.

it opened with a kickass one and closed with an even more kickass one. The two I vaguely remember in the middle were great, too. Maybe I’m just more easily wowed at animated depictions of dogfights

ran1 wrote: My major complaint was that the "Action" i.e. the dogfight scenes existed almost independently of a major portion of the dialogue. Although the element of "I remember you, you don't remember me" was there for awhile, it reached annoying meta-status by the midpoint, where the audience was lead into directionless plot traps where little came of the dialogue building up to that point.

I’d have to rewatch it before commenting fully, but I think I remember most of the “plot traps” you’re referring to—and if anything, considering the overt absurdism present in the film (even referenced with a nicely played quote from The Stranger), I think these “plot traps” weren’t there to provide distraction to the audience so much as establish the utterly incomprehensible situation the characters were wrapped up in.

And I do see what you’re saying regarding how the action was removed from the dialogue, but I found that to be another manifestation (if not the primary manifestation) of this absurdism—the story present isn’t really a story about dogfights or even war, nor is it really a story about lost love or the betrayal of a mentor or the jaded perceptions brought on by constant fighting; it isn’t really even about political espionage or underhanded morality of clone-kids or anything. It balances all of this in order to sculpt an absurdist presentation of an absurdist solution to an absurd problem: what if children were contracted to fight wars, and they were never allowed to grow up?

Maybe absurdism makes for crappy films, but I don’t think that’s really the case. Maybe using “absurdism” to cover for crappy writing is crappy filmmaking (which it is—using ANYTHING to cover for crappy writing is crappy filmmaking IMO, but the level to which this is convincing can vary), but considering how Sky Crawlers is structured, I don’t think this is the case. I’d probably know better if I read the novel (dunno if it’s even been translated TBH), and it isn’t hard for me to believe if Oshii altered the material greatly considering he has a tendency to do that with anything he adapts, but given the very nature of the content involved, I can’t say he made a bad decision incorporating absurdism into the narrative. I’d be rather surprised if it wasn’t in the novel, in fact.