[Film] James Cameron's Avatar

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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:31 pm

I think the whole point of the CGI was that its a test for the CGI to be deployed in the Battle Angel adaption
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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:09 pm

The CGI looks really good from what I've seen in the trailer.
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:22 pm

GasmaskAvenger wrote:I think the whole point of the CGI was that its a test for the CGI to be deployed in the Battle Angel adaption

Partially. But the thing about Cameron is that he's pretty uncompromising when it comes to visual effects, and rightfully so. Aliens, The Abyss, Terminator 2, and Titanic have all nabbed him the Oscar for best visual effects. I wouldn't be surprised if Avatar does the same.

There were quite a few things in Avatar that could have been accomplished with older effects techniques, but he wanted to go all the way and create a world and characters that can't be accomplished in reality. And considering how much money the film has already made, I think it was well spent.
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:28 pm

Yeah, I can see Avatar winning oscars in the technical department and nothing else
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Postby BattleMonkey » Wed Jan 06, 2010 10:31 pm

GasmaskAvenger wrote:Yeah, I can see Avatar winning oscars in the technical department and nothing else


People said same thing about Titanic

Sachi wrote:
FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:And much of it seemed unnecessary. The Na'vi could have been executed with a simple prosthetic down the nose, fake ears, some gloves and blue make-up/body suit. The tail could be a CGI element. But that would be all. The fact that the arms and legs were simply a couple inches longer proportionally really didn't justify spending thousands or even millions on the CGI.

I think the point was more to see if they could pull off the CGI, rather than finding the best way to make the graphics work.


It's also has to do with the fact that in the movie the Na'vi are about twice the size of humans. They couldn't simply just put on costumes and make up, they didn't just have longer limbs, they were literally giants in comparison.

Also since much of the movie used CGI it was just easier for them to use CGI represenations of the Na'vi to blend in the world they were in and allow them to make it seem more natural. Big difference between a guy in a suit and makeup on a giant cg dinosaur bird or a fully cg created scene which will pretty much come off more believable.

As for the CG it was pretty damn amazing and it was not like say the Star Wars films where you had fully CG characters, all the Na'vi were acted by real people fully in suits, they were simply transformed into the giant Na'vi by cg. All the performances were real and fully acted out by the actors, which gives it all a much more air of authenticity than just cg characters with voice overs like most CG characters of the past.

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Postby Uriel Septim VII » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:36 am

GasmaskAvenger wrote:Yeah, I can see Avatar winning oscars in the technical department and nothing else


The Golden Globes nominated Avatar for Best Picture, and they tend to lean more toward "arthouse" films than the AMPAS.

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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 1:38 am

it would shock me if Avatar didn't win Best Visual Effects and a few other similar Oscars (Best Sound, etc.)
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:32 am

Uriel Septim VII wrote:
Gendo'sPapa wrote:Regarding the furry issue. Amongst a bunch of people who get the hots for 14 year old animated girls then I'm def a furry for Neytiri.


Rei's ten! GET IT RIGHT!

and Asuka is 13

(Though as its been said, regular Rei is 4 in clone years)

still...what other out there would trump Avatar in the technical side of the Oscars?
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Postby Uriel Septim VII » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:35 am

GasmaskAvenger wrote:still...what other out there would trump Avatar in the technical side of the Oscars?


District 9 and Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. Watchmen just might get up there.
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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Thu Jan 07, 2010 3:40 am

District 9: While the film was "okay", I can see it winning, especially with them jerkish fanboys who claim that the digital FX in D9 was better

Watchmen: Cinematography, absolutely and of course there's everyone favorite other blue skinned person and obvious nudist Dr. Manhattan

TF2 Revenge of the Fallen: Hell no, though I can see Michael Bay literally bribing the Academy to win the FX awards and such
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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:22 am

BattleMonkey wrote:It's also has to do with the fact that in the movie the Na'vi are about twice the size of humans. They couldn't simply just put on costumes and make up, they didn't just have longer limbs, they were literally giants in comparison.


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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:57 am

I think many people are going to change their tune about Avatar and characterization when the Extended Cut is released next Fall. Which I've heard from a very reliable source will feature at least a half hour of missing scenes (most more than 80% rendered) that were cut to fit the film into the IMAX running time.

It's also funny to see Avatar suffer from the same problems Rebuild does (lots of spectacle, not too much character) but we already are attached to the Eva cast so many of us (myself included) don't mind.

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Postby GasmaskAvenger » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:04 am

yeah


the funny thing is that until it was theatrically released, I thought it was going to be 189 minutes long in regular theaters and edited for length in the IMAX, so there's definitely plenty of stuff on the cutting room floor
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Postby BattleMonkey » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:17 am

UrsusArctos wrote:
BattleMonkey wrote:It's also has to do with the fact that in the movie the Na'vi are about twice the size of humans. They couldn't simply just put on costumes and make up, they didn't just have longer limbs, they were literally giants in comparison.


Four words: Lord of the Rings.


Except they were not capable of the motion required by the Na'vi or dexterity. The work in Avatar makes LOTR look antiquated and it still reeked of cg fakeness. Actually I never was that impressed with the effects aspect of LOTR, it was very uneven and featured a lot of mediocre CG that hasn't been aging all that well to me.
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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Thu Jan 07, 2010 8:18 am

Mucho missing.

The whole first act has been vastly truncated I've been told (I have a friend who did some of the later end post work). Just watch the 3 minute trailer and it opens with Jake in an Earth bar. A vast amount was cut out of the story before they get to Earth. And on Pandora they cut out a finished scene where Jake goes on a hunt with the Na'vi men and takes down a massive elephant like creature. THAT'S the "Final test to become a Man" Jake is telling Quaritch in the 2nd half of the film. It's taking part in the Annual Na'vi Hunt and NOT just standing in a circle and letting people put their hand on your shoulder.

Essentially I've been told Cameron's logic was (and rightly so) that when he was informed an IMAX film must come in under 170 minutes- reels of IMAX film are just so massive it's physically impossible so far to have films over that length- he made the decision that for the theatrical cut the focus would be on Pandora and the journey. So vital character beats which would've enhanced the character archs but not necessarily added to the world of Pandora itself were shelved. What Cameron didn't want to do was put out a shorter IMAX cut and then a longer cut everywhere else.
Apparently the concensus now is to add these scenes back into the film and finish the CG work (with the profit so far it's a done deal) and try to get a limited theatrical re-release of the Director's Cut in Fall 2010. Cameron's preferred cut came in a little under 4 hours and while I don't see THAT every seeing the light of day I wouldn't be surprised if we get an DVD/BluRay cut in the 200 minute range.

It's going to be something similar to what happened to THE RETURN OF THE KING. Theatrically I loved the film but it was my least favorite entry in the saga cause so many character beats were missing- including Saruman's death- but the Extended Cut is my favorite.

We got a great theatrical experience with AVATAR that really takes us to another world. And in the future we're going to get a more naturally paced final cut that truly covers Cameron's world (FYI, I really connected with Jake's journey, cliche story be damned, and do love the film's pacing except for the obviously truncated first half hour). To be fair it's a far better deal than putting out another cut of the film with one added but superfluous scene in a car coughAnno1.11cough.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:27 am

VoidEater wrote:It was a shamanistic mediation ritual, not a "transplanting a human soul/whatever" ritual. It's explicit that the Na'vi didn't know what to do beyond communication with Hometree.

I see. Well, I guess that makes sense. I still think the mood should have probably be more frantic than ritualistic, but that may be just preference. At least now it doesn't read like a plot hole.

Sachi wrote:I think the point was more to see if they could pull off the CGI, rather than finding the best way to make the graphics work.

Yeah, the problem with that is that it's as ground breaking as George Lucas shooting his prequel Star Wars movies with HD video rather than traditional film. It advanced the technology that later on became readily available to the general public's budget. (Yay for us independent filmmakers! :yippee: ) But within terms of actually seeing an on-screen difference cause by the movie's revolutionary break-through, most people simply didn't notice.

Gendo'sPapa wrote:It's also funny to see Avatar suffer from the same problems Rebuild does (lots of spectacle, not too much character) but we already are attached to the Eva cast so many of us (myself included) don't mind.

Well, I've already expressed my dislike for Rebuild's lack of character development in Toji and Kensuke.

But when the extended for both Avatar and Rebuild are released, I will give 'em the objective once over and post an updated review.

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Postby BattleMonkey » Thu Jan 07, 2010 11:24 am

FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:But within terms of actually seeing an on-screen difference cause by the movie's revolutionary break-through, most people simply didn't notice.


You seem to be part of a small minority. All you hear from anyone of this film is how amazing it was in the visual aspects and how advanced it was.

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Postby FreakyFilmFan4ever » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:31 pm

BattleMonkey wrote:
FreakyFilmFan4ever wrote:But within terms of actually seeing an on-screen difference cause by the movie's revolutionary break-through, most people simply didn't notice.


You seem to be part of a small minority. All you hear from anyone of this film is how amazing it was in the visual aspects and how advanced it was.

That was a result of clever designs within the environment and creatures. Don't get me wrong, I really liked those designs. But we've been seeing special effects that looked that photorealistic for a while now.

The technology to achieve them has just been a bit more streamlined. That's the unnoticeable part.

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Postby BattleMonkey » Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:47 pm

The scale and length of it all was also one of the major aspects, but it's also not something were going to be seeing adopted readily, few can command the funding that Cameron gets for his films and he has often lead when it comes to technology and effects simply because of the blank check hollywood is willing to write him.

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Postby Starasp » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:41 pm

I would have preferred a less black-and-white presentation of the conflict, but other than that, It was easily one of the best movies I've ever seen. The Colonel was a badass.
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