Should Rei have been classified as an angel?

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Should Rei have been classified as an angel?

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Postby Eva Naut » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:30 am

Do you think Rei shoul have counted as an angel in Eva? I argue yes, because of Kaworu. Since he had the soul of Adam and an AT field, even though he appeared human, they counted it. Rei had the sole of Lilith. Furthermore, Rei's AT field was detected and pattern was blue.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:25 pm

Yes -- she's really the 2½th angel.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:38 pm

She already is, as a member of the 18th Angel.

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Postby CyberXIII » Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:48 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:She already is, as a member of the 18th Angel.


By that logic we're all Angels....oh crap.

Nah, she doesn't count as an Angel, despite having the abilities of one. If she did, she'd have been the third angel instead of Sachiel.
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Postby Eva Naut » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:01 pm

CyberXIII wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:She already is, as a member of the 18th Angel.


By that logic we're all Angels....oh crap.

Nah, she doesn't count as an Angel, despite having the abilities of one. If she did, she'd have been the third angel instead of Sachiel.


IMO, if they counted Kaworu as angel, by SEELE's logic they have to count Rei too.

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:48 pm

I would have to say no, Rei should not be counted as an angel. While the Rei-Lilith connection is clear, the Rei=Lilith equality is far from certain.

As suggested by the "I'm Home"/"Welcome Home" dialogue between Rei and Lilith in #26', Rei is only a part, albeit a significant one, of a greater whole. While she does retain some power, as evidenced by here breaking through Kaworu's barrier in #24', it's probably not on par with a complete angel, or indeed Kaworu himself. Not on her own anyway.

Rei is some shard or part of Lilith. It possible that the same holds for the Rei clones in the dummy system. Since Rei herself is not whole, I don't think an angel classification is appropriate.

As to the GNR Rei/Lilith/Kaworu combination in End of Evangelion, well, I think and Angel classification is appropriate in this case. Or perhaps we've transcended even that point?
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:33 pm

Instead of the classifications of Angels and humans it's much easier to distinguish them by saying "Adam derived organism" and "Lilith derived organism". Even though Rei is a kind of amalgam of Lilith's soul in the form of Yui she's still clearly derived from Lilith unlike the other Angels.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:39 pm

...She's classified as an Angel in Episode 24', but despite that, what EvaYojimbo said.
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Postby Xard » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:22 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:...She's classified as an Angel in Episode 24', but despite that, what EvaYojimbo said.


heh, I was about to mention Ep 24'

She also gets the angel classification as Lilith too
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Postby DatDude » Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:50 pm

Were Rei is in the angel numbering is in my opinion an over site of the original show. I like to think of her as a lost angel :ting:
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:13 pm

It's never stated in 24' that Rei is an angel. She just generates an AT field. The Evas do that. I don't think this alone can push Rei up to Angel status.
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Postby DatDude » Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:45 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:It's never stated in 24' that Rei is an angel. She just generates an AT field. The Evas do that. I don't think this alone can push Rei up to Angel status.


refresh my memory mathis is that the ep kaworu tell her they are the same or what ever?
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Postby MatrixRefugee » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:07 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:It's never stated in 24' that Rei is an angel. She just generates an AT field. The Evas do that. I don't think this alone can push Rei up to Angel status.


Doesn't Kaworu say something to Shinji about the AT Field being "the light of the soul" and that all living things have one? I'm guessing only Angels can use AT Fields defensively...

That said, I think of Rei and Kaworu as being technically human/angel hybrids of a sort (would that make them Nephillim, I wonder?).
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:11 pm

Eva Yojimbo wrote:Instead of the classifications of Angels and humans it's much easier to distinguish them by saying "Adam derived organism" and "Lilith derived organism". Even though Rei is a kind of amalgam of Lilith's soul in the form of Yui she's still clearly derived from Lilith unlike the other Angels.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:...She's classified as an Angel in Episode 24', but despite that, what EvaYojimbo said.

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Postby DatDude » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:20 pm

That you once again disturb me with your avatar mr monkey. but other then that meh
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:24 pm

DatDude wrote:refresh my memory mathis is that the ep kaworu tell her they are the same or what ever?

There are many parallels between Rei and Kaworu, but Kaworu does not have huge main body hanging down in Terminal Dogma. Remember, Rei had to merge with the larger Lilith mass before Third Impact began.

I think Rei, by herself, is altogether to frail and impotent to be considered as a complete Angel of the same degree as Kaworu and the rest. I'd suggest that not only is her power limited by her separation from the main Lilith mass, and by here human form, but she is also kept suppressed by here cocktail of medications.
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Postby cat42 » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:29 pm

MatrixRefugee wrote:I'm guessing only Angels can use AT Fields defensively...


But isn't our AT Fields what we use to keep other people out of our hearts?

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Postby DatDude » Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:39 pm

ObsessiveMathsFreak wrote:
DatDude wrote:refresh my memory mathis is that the ep kaworu tell her they are the same or what ever?

There are many parallels between Rei and Kaworu, but Kaworu does not have huge main body hanging down in Terminal Dogma. Remember, Rei had to merge with the larger Lilith mass before Third Impact began.

I think Rei, by herself, is altogether to frail and impotent to be considered as a complete Angel of the same degree as Kaworu and the rest. I'd suggest that not only is her power limited by her separation from the main Lilith mass, and by here human form, but she is also kept suppressed by here cocktail of medications.


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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:27 am

Well then, yes it was. I thought you were being rhetorical.
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Postby AuraTwilight » Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:15 am

You're all failing to understand that the numbering system of "Angels" has no real basis in reality and is fairly inaccurate, and only really serves to categorize figures antagonistic to humanity. Rei does not fit this, and does not get an Angelic status for the same reason the Evangelions do not. It's pretty much a reference to how the Ender series categorizes aliens.


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