What was that noise? (End of Evangelion dub question)

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What was that noise? (End of Evangelion dub question)

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Postby Trowa_Ayanami » Wed Sep 21, 2005 4:23 pm

I just wanted to know, in EoE, in the scene with Shinji and Asuka in Misato's apartment and Shinji then chokes Asuka after she coldly rejects him, what was said at the exact moment Shinji lunged at her throat?

In the sub, it was just Shinji doing a heavy, violent breathe, but in the dub, it was like someone was trying to say something in a whisper. I played it over a million times and I still can't get my grasp on it.

Can anyone help me on this?

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Wed Sep 21, 2005 6:21 pm

The dub.... is difficult. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Re: What was that noise? (End of Evangelion dub question)

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Postby Reichu » Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:46 pm

Trowa_Ayanami wrote:In the sub, it was just Shinji doing a heavy, violent breathe, but in the dub, it was like someone was trying to say something in a whisper. I played it over a million times and I still can't get my grasp on it.


Clearly, it's something AWL had Spike do because she thought it was funny.[/sardonic]
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Postby drinian » Wed Sep 21, 2005 11:19 pm

If something seems different in the dub than in the sub, just forget about it. The infamous example is, of course, Amanda Wynn-Lee's decision to replace a slap sound with a gunshot. The dubbers weren't really privy to any more information about the series than we are, I think.

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Postby Trowa_Ayanami » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:59 am

drinian wrote:If something seems different in the dub than in the sub, just forget about it. The infamous example is, of course, Amanda Wynn-Lee's decision to replace a slap sound with a gunshot. The dubbers weren't really privy to any more information about the series than we are, I think.


You mean like when Misato killed one of the SEELE guards after she says "No business here either" (I think that's what she said) In the sub, it was just a normal gunshot and the guard goes down. In the dub, there was a really bad squelching noise that seemed really inappropriate for that scene.

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Postby thewayneiac » Thu Sep 22, 2005 6:52 pm

Trowa_Ayanami wrote:
drinian wrote:If something seems different in the dub than in the sub, just forget about it. The infamous example is, of course, Amanda Wynn-Lee's decision to replace a slap sound with a gunshot. The dubbers weren't really privy to any more information about the series than we are, I think.


You mean like when Misato killed one of the SEELE guards after she says "No business here either" (I think that's what she said) In the sub, it was just a normal gunshot and the guard goes down. In the dub, there was a really bad squelching noise that seemed really inappropriate for that scene.


No, the scene drinian is refering to is from Death. You probably remember that in Death they show the scene where Kaji is shot and then immediately follow it with the scene from the director's cut of ep. 24 where Shinji tells Asuka that Kaji isn't comming back. In the Japanese version the transition between these two scenes is a the sound of Asuka slapping Shinji's face, replacing the fatal shot from the T.V. series. Amanda Wyn-Lee removed the slap and restored the gunshot, thus going beyond being a dubbing director. She changed an artistic decision made by the show's creators.

To make this even worse, it seems that this happend out of sheer stupidity on her part: in the commentary for this scene she says, "The gunshot here was very poor; it sounded like a slap. So I replaced it with a good loud bang." She didn't even realize that it sounded that way on purpose! It was a slap! She couldn't even tell the difference between the last sound of one scene and the first sound of the next scene.
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Postby sachiel » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:04 pm

thewayneiac wrote:To make this even worse, it seems that this happend out of sheer stupidity on her part: in the commentary for this scene she says, "The gunshot here was very poor; it sounded like a slap. So I replaced it with a good loud bang." She didn't even realize that it sounded that way on purpose! It was a slap! She couldn't even tell the difference between the last sound of one scene and the first sound of the next scene.


Most of the English cast/staff was pretty stupid.
I remember Tiffany Grant, during one commentary, saying, "What part took place in 2008?" because something on the screen said '2008'. She failed to realize that it said '2008 METERS'. And went on about it for the rest of the episode, until Matt Greenfield stopped her and said, "What..what the hell are you talking about?"

That, and Aoba's VA during the EoE commentary, as a whole. It made me sad that he didn't make one single valid point throughout the entire movie. There was a mushroom cloud after one of the explosions, and he said, "Is that in reference to Hiroshima and Nagasaki?"

...it was just an explosion.. :(



...er, yeah, aside from that. I still wouldn't worry over what Shinji says during the dub.
Shnooks and I agreed that Shinji just sounds like he's breathing heavily, which makes sense. He -was- throwing a tantrum just a few frames earlier.

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Postby Shnooks » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:17 pm

It did kinda sound like he was saying

"I'll kill her"

But it could also just be him kind of gurgling/growling/breathing/panting.

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Postby TsubasaNoKoikokoro » Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:50 pm

I think he says something like, "Dumb bitch!" But that is probally my imagination.

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Postby The Eva Monkey » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:11 pm

It sounds a little... "odd", but I don't think there's anything there.
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Postby Trowa_Ayanami » Fri Sep 23, 2005 7:07 am

thewayneiac wrote:
Trowa_Ayanami wrote:
drinian wrote:If something seems different in the dub than in the sub, just forget about it. The infamous example is, of course, Amanda Wynn-Lee's decision to replace a slap sound with a gunshot. The dubbers weren't really privy to any more information about the series than we are, I think.


You mean like when Misato killed one of the SEELE guards after she says "No business here either" (I think that's what she said) In the sub, it was just a normal gunshot and the guard goes down. In the dub, there was a really bad squelching noise that seemed really inappropriate for that scene.


No, the scene drinian is refering to is from Death. You probably remember that in Death they show the scene where Kaji is shot and then immediately follow it with the scene from the director's cut of ep. 24 where Shinji tells Asuka that Kaji isn't comming back. In the Japanese version the transition between these two scenes is a the sound of Asuka slapping Shinji's face, replacing the fatal shot from the T.V. series. Amanda Wyn-Lee removed the slap and restored the gunshot, thus going beyond being a dubbing director. She changed an artistic decision made by the show's creators.

To make this even worse, it seems that this happend out of sheer stupidity on her part: in the commentary for this scene she says, "The gunshot here was very poor; it sounded like a slap. So I replaced it with a good loud bang." She didn't even realize that it sounded that way on purpose! It was a slap! She couldn't even tell the difference between the last sound of one scene and the first sound of the next scene.


I know, it's so stupid.

As with the Misato/SEELE guard moment I mentioned, I was refering to another example of AWL's crappy dubbing director "skills" It seemed she wanted to put in a comedic sound to such a serious scene and I fucking hated her for that!!!! :evil:

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Postby ThroneofDravaris » Sat Sep 24, 2005 7:23 am

I really wonder sometimes why Matt Greenfield didn’t direct the EoE dub… I mean Amanda Winn Lee does a terrific job portraying Rei (one of the main reasons I actually prefer the Dub to the original version) but she really had no idea…

Her commentary was entertaining though, as voice actress commentary always is…

I also noticed Tiffany Grant’s misinterpretation of ‘2008’ meters, but it hardly went on for the entire episode. I think she’s way too into Asuka to notice anything else in the series…
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Postby drinian » Sat Sep 24, 2005 11:10 am

ThroneofDravaris wrote:I really wonder sometimes why Matt Greenfield didn’t direct the EoE dub…


Well, Matt Greenfield, IIRC, is one of the owners of ADV Films. Since Manga Entertainment got the license for EoE, it seems unlikely that he could or would jump ship to them to direct one thing.

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Postby sachiel » Sat Sep 24, 2005 6:45 pm

ThroneofDravaris wrote:
I also noticed Tiffany Grant’s misinterpretation of ‘2008’ meters, but it hardly went on for the entire episode. I think she’s way too into Asuka to notice anything else in the series…


Well, okay. So more like the last few minutes. But it was still pretty stupid.

Then I saw her Asuka collection, and hated her even more. :(

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Postby Zuggy » Sun Sep 25, 2005 9:01 am

That collection was amazing.

I hope theres a earthquake or flood that destroys it soon.

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Postby Olin of Xephon » Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:40 am

I think it's important to realize that the english dubbing cast/directors are nowhere near as obsessive about Evangelion as we are.

They don't have the entire timeline of the show memorized, they don't ponder the mysterious presence of the soul in Eva Unit 00 like a group of religous zealots, they probably don't remember half the nuances of the show we do.

That doesn't make them stupid. They have their own lives and most probably, Evangelion is not a overwhleming part of it.

I don't really think it's fair to crucify them because they aren't walking Evangelion dictionaries you know? They just don't have as strong a connection to it.

I also think they had a point when aksing wether or not the mushroom cloud explosion is a reference to the Hiroshima bomb.
Every frickin nuclear-esque explosion ever seen in anime is a reference to the Hiroshima bomb!
It was a great tradgedy that rocked the nation and lost them the war, its presence is eternally symbolic as far as the Japanese are concerned.

The same way any skyscraper or plane destroying film (War of the Worlds anyone?) will be eternally linked to 9/11 in the States.

As far as the long standing argument with the dub goes, I always have to refer to Mr. Miyazaki himself when he said in a recnet interview that:

"When you watch the subtitled version you are probably missing just as many things. There is a layer and a nuance you're not going to get. Film crosses so many borders these days. Of course it is going to be distorted."


(That intereview can be found here by the way: http://film.guardian.co.uk/interview/interviewpages/0,6737,1569689,00.html)

As far as the mumbled piece of dialogue this thread is focusing on (yes, I've heard it too) it can only posess as much signifigance as you allow it too. Pretty much the same as the rest of the show dubbed, muted, or subtitled.
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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:42 am

Olin of Xephon wrote:I think it's important to realize that the english dubbing cast/directors are nowhere near as obsessive about Evangelion as we are.

They don't have the entire timeline of the show memorized, they don't ponder the mysterious presence of the soul in Eva Unit 00 like a group of religous zealots, they probably don't remember half the nuances of the show we do.

That doesn't make them stupid. They have their own lives and most probably, Evangelion is not a overwhleming part of it.

I would agree with this up to a point. Yes the dub creators have their own lives to lead and I certainly don't expect them to be fanatical about every that they translate/dub. However, not a few of the dub crew are in fact quite vocal and enthusiastic about the show. Arguably they are more so now than when they were making the show originally.

ADV do in fact analyse Evangelion and have their own theories and opinions on it. My biggest problem with their theories is that they suffer from overemphasis on the christian and kabbalistic symbols used, which was probably inevitable given the overall religious climate in the United States.
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Postby Olin of Xephon » Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:24 pm

I agree. While I think the Christian, Kaballah, and Judisim themes are there for a reason, I have yet to meet a Eva fan (in person mind you, on this forum I've met a lot) who can look past them and to the real meat of the work, I.E, The deconstruction of humanity.
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Postby pHasE _4! » Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:31 am

I never get the HUGE fuss about dubs being poor :?: . Here i go again being the bad guy on the forum due to my opinions. But what the hell do i care. Is it supposed to be some feather in the cap if you agree with other anime fans that virtually all dubs suck? Who knows, maybe we are rejoicing the original language versions, while the Japanese themselves are highly critical about their own versions?

I am an anime fan and i don't mind saying: "I see no problem with the Eva dubbed version!". There... you can now sue me. We all know how popular that is in the U.S. There are poor dubs i agree, but Eva has been the best i've seen thus far.

I present a challenge to all those who think subs suck to convince me why they are supposed to be SO bad.

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Postby ObsessiveMathsFreak » Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:24 pm

pHasE _4! wrote:I present a challenge to all those who think subs suck to convince me why they are supposed to be SO bad.


I accept your challenge!

The biggest problem with the eva dub vs the sub, is that the dub takes considerable liberties and these sometimes seriously change the tone and meaning of the scene and characters. Here's a prime example(~1MB)(sorry for the ads)

Here we see the JSSDF execution squad find Shinji and one of them reports that he is found and makes to execute him.

In the sub, the soldiers radio report is unemotional. When he speaks to Shinji, there is a slight note of regret, but he remains determined. The overall impression is that of a stony professional who drops his cold facade for just a moment to express his sympathy. In other words, though he's following orders, this soldier regrets his actions.

Contrastingly in the dub, the soldiers radio report contains a slight chuckle, as do his words to Shinji. Here the overall impression is that the soldier is chortling all through this scene. Instead of a stony professional with regret, we have someone who doesn't give a danm and is actually enjoying his work.

We have in the dub someone who finds this whole execution somehow funny, in stark contrast to the sub where we have someone do disturbed by it that he takes time out to say sorry, a curtesy he hardly extended to any other Nerv personel he came upon.

This is just a small example of how liberties or inconsistencies in the dub can seriously change the impact of a scene. It's a small snippet yes, but the difference is startling in only these two lines.
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