Vatican Treaty

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby LiLi » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:57 am

Soul Fire wrote:Well yeah. The whole thing makes sense in theroy and to be honest the whole treaty just comes across as something some politicians thought up without thinking of all the consequences. It's petty politics for the sake of it and I think that is part of what the vatican treaty is supposed to present.

It does make sense from an international standpoint but obviously it doenst fit perfectly into Japan's NERV branch's plans. They just view it as an irriating fly in the ointment.


Seems to me exactly the way Ritsuko described it in the movie. :thumbsup:

On a sidenote, trying to imagine the Vatican hosting the Vatican Treaty Event feels pretty surreal...
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Postby Helius » Thu Aug 13, 2009 5:22 pm

If I were to guess, I'd say there maybe a correlation between the Vatican Treaty and the Four Glowing Dudes at the 2nd Impact.

Maybe having 4 EVAs in one place could trigger an event of some sort (or provide the means thereto) that's not favourable to SEELE's grand plan, so they conjured up this treaty as a vehicle to prevent any unwelcomed obstacles to their hidden agendas.

Just my 2 cents.

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Postby trueno_twentyone » Thu Aug 13, 2009 6:59 pm

I think that the Vatican treaty is named as such
maybe due to the influence that the Vatican has in real life.
The Vatican can order things and countries just have to obey it - no questions asked.

But my two cents in this one is that, it may just be a fishy thing of SEELE,
or it may be really be an order coming for the Vatican.
We can never tell since we just got a small reference in the movie.
I am hoping that we'll get more answers when 3.0 goes out.

and BTW...
I thought this thread died out.
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Postby Barong » Thu Aug 13, 2009 7:37 pm

trueno_twentyone wrote:I think that the Vatican treaty is named as such
maybe due to the influence that the Vatican has in real life.
The Vatican can order things and countries just have to obey it - no questions asked..


What? What is this "real life" you're talking about then? Certainly isn't the one I participate in. :grin:
The Vatican has no power over any country in the world, not even in the slightest. The pope is actually the only diplomat of the whole state, and he can't order anyone around either - only hardcore conservative Christians would "obey without asking questions".
The treaty is most likely just called that way because it was signed there, on neutral ground.

As for the regulation itself: Misato did drop a line in the series about being able to "end the world" now when Eva 03 arrived in Japan. Maybe 4 of them were just enough for a certain 3I scenario that was never further elaborated on - but old thread is old, this has all been done before. ;)
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Postby trueno_twentyone » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:07 pm

you do have a point...
btw, where you from? your name caught my attention.
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Postby EdZ » Thu Aug 13, 2009 8:47 pm

Barong wrote:As for the regulation itself: Misato did drop a line in the series about being able to "end the world" now when Eva 03 arrived in Japan. Maybe 4 of them were just enough for a certain 3I scenario that was never further elaborated on - but old thread is old, this has all been done before. ;)
That's a pretty good point. We've not had a full 2nd Impact flashback yet: what's to say that the 'white giant' isn't 'white giants' this time round?

Regardless, what do we actually KNOW about the Vatican treaty?
* It's public, at least as much as anything to do with the Evas is.
* It prohibits more than 3 ACTIVE Evas in proximity
* Administration of the treaty is performed by a third party under direction of the Eva's owning/originating country
That's it. We can guess a few extra things about it though:
* SEELE is probably behind it (as they are behind pretty much anything Eva related)
* NERV Japan don't appear to have any specific problems with the treaty's enforcement. Either having more than 3 active Evas was never even considered useful, or having more than 3 was undesirable.
What follows is Wild Guessing territory.
SEELE probably aren't held to the treaty, as nobody except a few of the highest of NERV's top brass even know they exist. Thus, SEELE can churn out as many Evas as they want with impunity. This gives them the incentive to back the treaty. NERV may also have an incentive in the idea that it may trigger 3rd Impact (may or may not be true, could be a convenient lie disseminated by SEELE to NERV's mid & lower echelons). A public face of "preventing proliferation of Evangelions" works as an agreeable and plausible public cover for preventing out-of-the-know countries from demanding Evas.

As for it being a plot-point to get Asuka into unit-3 and get Mari on the scene? Probably. It's not as if that's a bad thing; there's no requirement to maintain the same cast as the series. Is it a plot-hole? Not really; there are plenty of possible explanations out forward already, and it's so far only been mentioned in a few seconds of the actual film!

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Postby Ornette » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:35 pm

It's been brought up before in this very thread (4 evas=bad=4 "Adams+"), but there's nothing we get from the movies (so far) that tell us one way or the other. Personally, I wouldn't get your hopes up for a thorough explanation. It's not like the series itself gave much explanations about its own plot wanderings.

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Postby trueno_twentyone » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:37 pm

The equation shown:

4 Evas = Bad = "Adams+"

is compleatly invalid...
it is just 3 Evas = Adam.
Unit 01 is a special case.
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Postby Ornette » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:40 pm

3 evas = OK.

Vatican treaty limits to only 3 evas.

4 evas = bad. etc.... since we see 4 "Adams+"

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Postby trueno_twentyone » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:46 pm

Ok, i deem it as an acceptable answer Ornette -sama.
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Postby Ornette » Thu Aug 13, 2009 10:48 pm

I'm not providing it as an answer, I just mentioned that it was brought up before and that maybe we'll never know the "what" or "why".

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Postby Gendo'sPapa » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:36 am

Around the 45 minute point of the film Misato, Ritsuko, & the Bridge Bunnies are all talking about the Vatican Treaty and the political dilemmas between NERV and the other countries of the world. They're dialogue about politics corrupting their dealings makes perfect sense. I think the Vatican Treaty is an interesting concept and also helps push the idea that this is a worldwide affair. NGE never really leaves Tokyo-3's borders and while there's a few talks about other place doing "stuff" nothing really affects Tokyo-3 (Eva 04 and 03 notwithstanding).

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Postby Armitage » Sat Aug 15, 2009 2:34 am

I'm with the idea that the Vatican Treaty is two layered . One is the political cover story of "let no major power get too much power" and hence why it's funneled through the UN to give it legitimacy and the other layer which was mentioned before is that 4 Evas in the same place would be dangerous in its implications for Impactness .

I think the fact that they put so much security on Unit 02 and NOT TO MENTION that they chose the test facilities to be far away from NERV HQ (although this could be for the fact that Ikari rightly guessed that something was afoot) without anyone thinking it was so strange leads me to believe that having four evangelions at once might produce something extraordinary .

After all , we needed a buttload of evas for the sephiroth tree in EoE maybe 4 has some kind of significance - shrug -

Edit: not to mention that the Vatican itself conjures religious imagery so I think it indicates something more mystical than say if it was named "The Geneva Accords" which conjures up something very political or "Antarctic Treaty" (a real treaty and one in gundam about nuclear proliferation which is interesting consider vis a vis the destructive power of nukes and colony drops in gundam and the destructive power of Evangelions and Adam if we look at Eva in the context of other mecha anime especially one as venerated as MSG) although in this case Antarctic Treaty would probably have conjured up quite interesting counter-images than just nukes .

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Postby AuraTwilight » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:51 am

4 = Death. It's just silly Japanese superstitions, you gaiz.

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Postby trueno_twentyone » Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:56 am

@AuraT.: Can you kindly defend your answer? I want to see the logic behind it. Thanks.
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Postby Fazmotron » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:07 am

Learn to Japanese!!!

4 = shi = death
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Postby trueno_twentyone » Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:10 am

@Fazmotron: Sorry I am not that very knowledgeable in Nihonggo!

Another thing,

Learn to Japanese!!!


Learn your English!
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:19 pm

trueno_twentyone wrote:
Learn to Japanese!!!


Learn your English!
All I can say at this point is

* Learn to internet.
* TOPIC, BITCHES
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Postby jayngfet » Thu Dec 31, 2009 9:03 pm

Here's an idea: Maybe there are people who think in the long term. After all AFTER the angels are gone people who don't know what SEELEs plans are are going to see a bunch of weapons that tear through the most advanced things the world ever maid like cardboard. If an N2 mine that flattens a city is needed to match one of these things imagine what it'll take to beat it. It's best if one country doesn't have the power to bring the world to it's knees, but multilple world powers may have some to make a standstill.
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