Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILERS]

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The final installment is scheduled to debut in Japan on January 23, 2021.

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Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILE

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Postby Evangelion217 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:03 am

Gamer_2k4 wrote:After watching the camrip of Rebuild 2, I decided to go back to the series to see how the original battle against Sahaquiel compared.

I was shocked.

I had seen nothing but Rebuild and the manga for the longest time, and as a result, the series looked ridiculously primative. What I had once considered good art (not good animation, mind you, because as a rule, anime is pretty low in terms of animation quality) now seemed very sparse and cartoony. All the colors seemed off, the lines were too thick, and there just wasn't any detail at all.

Then I went back to Rebuild and was amazed all over again. The CGI and animation that I had grown accustomed to now looked absolutely breathtaking when compared to its predecessor. Detail abounded, and I found I didn't really miss things like Jet Alone and other parts that ended up getting cut. In fact, after watching Rebuild, those parts seem extraneous to the point of being filler material. In terms of audio, the music is so much better in Rebuild, and the Japanese voices are significantly better than the English ones I was used to.

In short, I really don't see much reason to watch the original series again, since everything seems so much better in Rebuild. Anyone else feel the same way?


I disagree. The original series is still outstanding to me, and so far, "Rebuild" doesn't even touch it's subtlety, brilliance, and cinematic perfections. But "Rebuild" does have better visuals, animation, and production value. And it should since it's been released 10+ years after the original series. If an anime in this decade doesn't have better production value then an anime from the 90's, then the studio failed miserably.

Overall, I give the "Rebuild" movie series a 9/10. While "NGE" still gets a 10/10 from me.
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Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILE

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Postby Electric Sachiel » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:13 am

I'll agree with you about the animation. I had pretty much the same reaction as you did when comparing the two together. I recently took another round of viewings through my platinum NGE dvds and yes the animation is much cruder than the new Rebuild movies. However, when you factor in their limited budget, the fact that NGE was a tv series and Rebuild were made with higher production values it becomes kind of a misnomer to compare the two together for these two reasons.

Animation aside, i think NGE and Rebuild, as many others have stated, are two completely different animals. The psychological mind fucks also make NGE stand apart from Rebuild, at least until we find out whether 3.0 and 4.0 have something remotely reaching the levels of sheer insanity that NGE did.

In retrospective i don't necessarily prefer one over the other, since they are so very different. Well i suppose if i wanted to flaunt something that looks actiony with updated production values to my friends, Rebuild all the way. It would also do well to satisfy my craving for extravagant Eva battle sequences, stuff we were not blessed with in Rebirth and EoE. But for sheer depth of character and plot development, I'd choose NGE in a heartbeat.

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Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILE

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Postby LiLi » Thu Jul 30, 2009 2:56 am

I think Rebuild's complexity (or lack thereof) will be lost on most of us foreigners until 2.0 and following are released subbed... so a comparison really isn't all that fair at the moment IMO.

Imagine watching NGE with no idea of what they are saying...

2.0 is fun to take apart and figure out with ease - there's lot of little things that will suddenly dawn on you when you least expect it, IMHO.

As for character development - I think in NGE some characters (Rei, Kaworu come to mind) didn't get enough ONSCREEN character development at all. I see Rebuild is trying to fix this - hopefully not at the espenses of other characters/aspects/developments.

Still, if I want to see the way some characters and relationships were handled differently before, I can always revisit NGE for its different angle.
I guess the NGE scenes that were gratuitous waste of screentime to some will always be fond memories to others, and viceversa.

As for the animation issue... perhaps in a sense NGE's damnation was also its blessing: having time and budget restraints coupled with outside pressures, put the staff in the condition to come up with all sorts of funky cinematic sequences to make up for the lack of new complex action scenes and in the frame of mind, due to all the stress piled upon them, to give their all to the production...

As of now, I don't see NGE as becoming "ruined" or "outdated" due to its message and significance to those who identify/sympathize with the characters' struggles and psychological issues.

Rebuild *might* eventually go the same way, but I rather expect it to tackle different angles... evolving along with its makers.
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Postby Shinji-kun » Thu Jul 30, 2009 8:55 am

SPOILER: Show
I dont know why they added mari or spider Evas


Open spoilers.

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Postby Soul Fire » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:12 am

Did rebuild ruin the origional series for me? ....

Ill let you know when it's finished :rolleyes: .
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Postby roblucci01 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 9:52 am

Did watching 1.11 in high definition blu-ray kill the first six episodes of NGE for me? Of course. Did 2.0 kill episodes 7-19? Fuck no. Both of them are completely different.

Like the original, 2.0 has its own plentiful share of issues, except it's problems center around skimmed character interaction and (some) rather pointless scenes. However, 2.0 had the action arc to deal with, a section of NGE so bloated with filler it would be impossible to remake those episodes into a ninety minute movie.

So what did Khara do? They said, "Fuck it", and redid that entire saga in an entirely different way, unlike 1.0, keeping tidbits of what was left in the original story to allow it to flow according to the storyline. In some ways some people may consider it better, some worse, however the point I am trying to get at here is that is really impossible to try and compare Rebuild 2.0 to the original TV episodes.

Honestly I try not to think of RoE as a remake of Neon Genesis Evangelion, but a completely different series all together. I think both 2.0 and 8-19 have issues, not comparison issues, but problems of their own that are exclusive to that series.

So, in short, I think it impossible to compare Rebuild in its current state to the original Neon Genesis Evangelion.
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Postby arkiel » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:15 am

Shinji-kun wrote:
SPOILER: Show
I dont know why they added mari or spider Evas


Open spoilers.


Hmm. I think I can explain it to you.

Anno wants to fuck Maaya Sakamoto.

He manifests this behavior by sidelining his (self-professed) favorite character with an OC, who is scripted to be a giant fan-service bot. I'd wish him the best and hope he photographs the adultery, but I just noticed all of Sakamoto's returns on Google Images have her lips pressed together, meaning she's likely got horse-teeth.

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Postby SaltyJoe » Thu Jul 30, 2009 10:49 am

^
That's the greatest theory since the "Anno wanted to fuck Miyamura" one. Eva is a story that repeats indeed.

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Postby pmkava » Thu Jul 30, 2009 11:36 am

Did Rebuild ruin he original series for me?

short answer, no.

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Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILE

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:53 pm

Gamer_2k4 wrote:In short, I really don't see much reason to watch the original series again, since everything seems so much better in Rebuild. Anyone else feel the same way?


To be honest, I somewhat feel this way after seeing 2.0. I just didn't expect it to be as amazing overall as it was (there's no other way for me to describe it), so the series does seem primitive in that sense. Don't get me wrong, I still LOVE the original NGE (why else would I be here?), it's just 2.0 managed to blow me away visually and plot-wise.

Besides this, it IS hard to compare the two (apples and oranges more or less. Though both are overseen by Anno, in some ways comparing Rebuild to NGE is like comparing the anime to the manga) since they're two different canons, two different ways of telling mostly the same story, but since you asked, I'm answering. ;)
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Postby master_lloyd » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:55 pm

Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you?


God, I hope not. I've not long bought the Platinum DVD Boxset.
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Postby VoidEater » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:36 pm

Does Rebuild ruin Classic?

Style: No. It's just different. But I grew up with B/W film and TV and still watch those in glorious original format.

Story: We'll see. It's really all about the last half (of the series/of the Rebuilds).
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Postby Ingrod » Fri Jul 31, 2009 12:30 am

roblucci01 wrote:2.0 has its own plentiful share of issues, except it's problems center around skimmed character interaction and (some) rather pointless scenes.


Really, I'm tired of hear that.

These "pointless" scenes are for character development. For what I read in reviews and some dialogue traslations (thanks to the team) are full of character details and interactions.

I cant post examples because this is an "No spoilers threat" but I'm akin to Lili words, Rebuild resolves some issues with character development present in NGE, and that is for good, and that is the reason for these "pointless comedic scenes" existence.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jul 31, 2009 7:19 am

Ingrod wrote:These "pointless" scenes are for character development. From what I read in reviews and some dialogue translations (thanks to the team) are full of character details and interactions.


This.
SPOILER: Show
The only "real" pointless scene (to some I'd think) is a a minute-long "Shinji walking to school as scenary is shown" montage, and even that gives a sense of setting/post Operation Yashima.
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Postby The Eva Monkey » Fri Jul 31, 2009 8:34 am

Rebuild can't possibly have ruined NGE. Rebuild isn't even finished yet. This really is a discussion better suited for 5 years from now when Rebuild 1-4 have all been produced, released, licensed, distributed, and absorbed.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:29 am

I thought the topic was more about comparing Action/Descent Arc to 2.0... But good point that people forget about.
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Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILE

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Postby JimmyWolk » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:31 am

Ingrod wrote:These "pointless" scenes are for character development.
Yeah,
SPOILER: Show
the decontamination scene
surely had plenty of character development. ;P

Sailor Star Dust wrote:
Gamer_2k4 wrote:In short, I really don't see much reason to watch the original series again, since everything seems so much better in Rebuild. Anyone else feel the same way?


To be honest, I somewhat feel this way after seeing 2.0. I just didn't expect it to be as amazing overall as it was (there's no other way for me to describe it), so the series does seem primitive in that sense. Don't get me wrong, I still LOVE the original NGE (why else would I be here?), it's just 2.0 managed to blow me away visually and plot-wise.
Wait, wait, the question was whether to ever go back to the series after Rebuild. And you really want to tell me 2.0 blew you that much away that if faced with that choice, you wouldn't miss seeing
SPOILER: Show
tandem-piloting (Daww), synch-training with Wall of Jericho and almost-kiss, thermal expansion & Magma saving, let alone the actual kiss, blushing retreat from checking on him in the infirmary, lots of little bits of banter,...
ever again? O_o

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Re: Did Rebuild ruin the original series for you? [NO SPOILE

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Postby roblucci01 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 10:43 am

JimmyWolk wrote:
Ingrod wrote:These "pointless" scenes are for character development.
Yeah,
SPOILER: Show
the decontamination scene
surely had plenty of character development. ;P


When I said pointless scenes, this was EXACTLY what I was referring to.

Killing that and adding a couple more minutes could have opened the possibility for another angel fight. Unlike some others my [small] complaints with this movie have nothing to do with "nonsensical events" towards the 2nd half of the movie some people seem to be mentioning, but rather the filler in the first half.

As fanboyish as this also sounds I kinda wish they could have introduced a little bit more A/S interaction in this movie, but hey, I have high hopes for 3.0 ^_^

Besides that I don't have any problems with 2.0 (although I wished they could of had a LITTLE more to bring to the able during the first half, albeit the action- packed second half more than made up for it), but I still think its pretty ridiculous to compare 2.0 to Episodes 8- 17, at the very least.
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Postby arkiel » Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:24 pm

Ah, I think I understand. You want more loud sounds and bright colors, and for the movie to crank the Shinji/Asuka dynamic to 11, rather than just opening with 8 and moving gradually to 10.

And Rei isn't important to the story.

I got the right of that?

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Postby roblucci01 » Fri Jul 31, 2009 5:11 pm

arkiel wrote:Ah, I think I understand. You want more loud sounds and bright colors, and for the movie to crank the Shinji/Asuka dynamic to 11, rather than just opening with 8 and moving gradually to 10.

And Rei isn't important to the story.


Not at all. You seem to be misunderstanding my point completely.

I NEVER said Rei was unimportant to the story but rather scenes in 2.0 were pointless, EG
SPOILER: Show
the decontamination scene, Asuka's shower scene


My issue with this film is the first half of the movie spending time on pointless filler (And NO, I do not mean Rei's character development by this, even though it was extremely exaggerated). I ALSO would have liked Asuka to have down a little more, character wise and pairing wise.

And with time spent on other things, this movie could have possibly introduced a new angel, or go into Asuka or (even) Mari's background.

I think I may have mis-worded what I was trying to say earlier. I like this movie, but I have minor issues with it, as I do with the original episodes. It
all comes down to personal preference which is better, but I still think its stupid to say 2.0 completely destroys the original in every single way.
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