Is "Evangelion" truly ground breaking??

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

Moderator: Board Staff

schismatics
Lilin
Lilin
User avatar
Age: 31
Posts: 1861
Joined: May 11, 2009
Location: Killinois
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby schismatics » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:24 pm

Eva Yojimbo wrote:I see NGE as a kind of landmark piece in a similar way that Stravinsky's Rite of Spring was; both seemed to mark the end of one era and the beginning of another.


This for two reasons
1) It is truth
2) I love the Rite of Spring

Eva Yojimbo
Redbeard
Redbeard
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8005
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jul 27, 2009 4:28 pm

schismatics wrote:This for two reasons
1) It is truth
2) I love the Rite of Spring
You can add a:

3) Both were incredibly controversial and provoked arguments and debates over their quality for years/decades after their premiere.

Rite of Spring provoked a riot at its premiere; NGE might not have done that, but I'd say it provoked the equivalent of online text riots. :grin:
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

FallenTabris
Shamshel
Shamshel
User avatar
Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Location: California

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FallenTabris » Mon Jul 27, 2009 5:50 pm

Or maybe the audience is uneducated and can easily get duped.


Art has no objective value. the only extant value is what is invoked in other people. Has Eva accomplished this? Yes. It doesn't mean anyone is obligated to respect Eva, but it does mean you should think of respecting others who have found a vein of truth and enjoyment in any media, rather than implying they're uneducated. Like I said, you are denigrating the show and its fans plenty.

honsou
Zeruel
Zeruel
Age: 37
Posts: 845
Joined: Sep 15, 2006
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby honsou » Mon Jul 27, 2009 7:15 pm

Eva Yojimbo wrote: NGE wasn't really a destroyer; works like Gundam still exists and are going strong, for example.


This is actually a good example of what I mean, besides Turn A (which was made by the original creator) Gundam basically died. The metaseries changed to appeal to a younger female audience and each series was of low quality and were just a flash in the pan. Even then it only really had any success because of the word "Gundam". Other then that Mecha had a much lower profile, even with great series like Big O getting a terrible reception.

FallenTabris
Shamshel
Shamshel
User avatar
Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Location: California

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FallenTabris » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:02 pm

SEED got quite a bit of press, didn't it? Apparently it was popular enough to generate a multitude of anime and manga sidestories and spinoffs.

Eva Yojimbo
Redbeard
Redbeard
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8005
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:02 pm

SEED was actually what I was thinking of when I wrote that.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

FallenTabris
Shamshel
Shamshel
User avatar
Posts: 270
Joined: Jan 07, 2008
Location: California

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby FallenTabris » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:06 pm

Wait, so Tomino oversaw SEED and not Turn A? o_O going offtopic, but yeah..

honsou
Zeruel
Zeruel
Age: 37
Posts: 845
Joined: Sep 15, 2006
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby honsou » Mon Jul 27, 2009 8:56 pm

Turn A was made by Tomino, he had no input on SEED what so ever. SEED had an initial popularity, that quickly died out after the series ended. And with the release of SEED destiny just completely took it out. Same sort of thing happened with 00, except it got even lower ratings.

Dr. Nick
Committeeperson
Committeeperson
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 19, 2007
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Dr. Nick » Tue Jul 28, 2009 12:20 pm

each series was of low quality and were just a flash in the pan.


O8th MS Team, X, Stargazer, MS Igloo and 00 season 1 are often considered to be among the better gundums, and original Seed is not particularly bad.

Apjak
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 28
Joined: Jun 30, 2009
Location: Kansas City

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Apjak » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:11 pm

If I can come in late. Evangelion is Historical not for it's "groundbreaking", which to what degree and direction I give the examples already stated in this thread. It was what you can read on the Platinum Edition's cover blurb. "Anime's Perfect Storm". It was, what it was, WHEN it was. Evangelion, Star Wars, The Beatles, Elvis, hell... The American Revolution, all hit cultures that were waiting, ignorant and ready for it. Evangelion like all art... makes one go, "I'm not alone." Take something like The Specials' "Ghost Town", and what that meant at the time it came out, and what the song is today (namely the opening credits to Shaun of the Dead). Evangelion has in almost any on feature been outdone countless times. Looking at Evangelion now, no one part is that amazing on it's own, but the synergy of the parts collected, coupled with the direction that the medium (animation) had been going in, created a dizzing shockwave. It was being hit by a runaway train while safely cruising in an airplane.

And also an open side challenge, particularly to Allemann. Please read Understanding Comics. It explained to me what I already knew about comics: that they were a medium with much more potential than written word or images alone. It also helps one to understand animation just as well, since Animations are essentially comics only much, much slower than comics.

Evangelion217
Lilith
Posts: 124
Joined: May 26, 2008
Location: New York, New York

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Evangelion217 » Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:19 pm

What I would call it, is the death blow of Mecha.


A friend of mine called it that as well. He considers "Evangelion" to be the biggest "fuck you" to the mecha anime genre.

The rest of the Mecha series are either medicore at best or just plain old terrible.


I kinda disagree since I do like "Aquarion." But you got a point, most mecha animes these days suck balls. And I do love "Gurren Lagann." :grin:

Evangelion was not a deconstruction of the Mecha genre, it was a demolition.


That's an interesting way of looking at it.



If you're expecting to get a life's epiphany by watching a japtoon, you really have to get out of that basement.


Because of "Evangelion", I'm out of the basement. It not only changed my, but made it better. Even though I'm still jumping over on hurdle after another.

please don't double post


I see NGE as a kind of landmark piece in a similar way that Stravinsky's Rite of Spring was


Or "2001" for that matter. :)

please don't triple post after a moderator combined your double post


last warning
Last edited by Evangelion217 on Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth.

"Komm Susser Todd" is the most up-lifting song about depression"- Evangelion217

It's stange that "Evangelion" became such a hit. All the characters are so sick!- Hideaki Anno

Allemann
Lilin
Lilin
Age: 32
Posts: 1779
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Location: Europe

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Allemann » Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:28 pm

FallenTabris wrote:
Or maybe the audience is uneducated and can easily get duped.
Art has no objective value. Like I said, you are denigrating the show and its fans plenty.


And you're denigrating aesthetics and art theory.

Evangelion was not a deconstruction of the Mecha genre, it was a demolition.


Maybe. But it became back a dumb robot show in Rebuild. Redecontructionism?

Eva Yojimbo
Redbeard
Redbeard
User avatar
Age: 35
Posts: 8005
Joined: Feb 17, 2007
Location: Somewhere Over the Rainbo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:07 pm

Allemann wrote:And you're denigrating aesthetics and art theory.
Care to argue any of these asinine propositions you keep throwing out there?
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

Fredrick2003
Embryo
Posts: 47
Joined: Jan 31, 2009

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Fredrick2003 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 7:52 pm

Allemann wrote:
FallenTabris wrote:
Or maybe the audience is uneducated and can easily get duped.
Art has no objective value. Like I said, you are denigrating the show and its fans plenty.


And you're denigrating aesthetics and art theory.

Evangelion was not a deconstruction of the Mecha genre, it was a demolition.


Maybe. But it became back a dumb robot show in Rebuild. Redecontructionism?


I haven't gotten the chance to see Rebuild yet... But it isn't THAT bad is it...

I hope not...

Legendary
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 2814
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Legendary » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:04 pm

Allemann wrote:Maybe. But it became back a dumb robot show in Rebuild. Redecontructionism?


I'll ignore the dumb grammar and point out that Webuild 1.0 and 2.0 are probably the equivalents of the introductory and action arcs. If you only consider the first fifteen episodes of Evangelion, it's not really all that great a show, and it's certainly not groundbreaking. Wait until 3.0 comes out before saying it's a dumb robot show.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:28 pm

Legendary wrote:I'll ignore the dumb grammar and point out that Webuild 1.0 and 2.0 are probably the equivalents of the introductory and action arcs.

SPOILER: Show
2.0 is a bit harder to categorize, since it incorporates not only action arc stuff, but the subsequent Eva-03 and Zeruel events, which themselves have been compounded with elements from episodes 22 and 23 (Asuka and Rei's close encounters with Angels) and even 26'. Not really keeping pace in any meaningful way with NGE.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」

Legendary
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 2814
Joined: Jun 11, 2008
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Legendary » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:00 pm

Reichu:

SPOILER: Show
I admit 2.0 isn't quite clear cut, but from what I've heard, 2.0 didn't focus so much on Asuka's situation in Eva-03 or Rei making contact with the angel, and it's entirely possible that the 3.0 battles will be more like Arael and Armisael.

Evangelion217
Lilith
Posts: 124
Joined: May 26, 2008
Location: New York, New York

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Evangelion217 » Thu Jul 30, 2009 12:49 am

I don't know where the "Rebuild" films are going, but "2.0" was awesome. That's all I have to say about that. :grin:
The fate of destruction is also the joy of rebirth.

"Komm Susser Todd" is the most up-lifting song about depression"- Evangelion217

It's stange that "Evangelion" became such a hit. All the characters are so sick!- Hideaki Anno

Allemann
Lilin
Lilin
Age: 32
Posts: 1779
Joined: Jun 26, 2009
Location: Europe

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Allemann » Thu Jul 30, 2009 1:39 am

Legendary wrote:
Allemann wrote:Maybe. But it became back a dumb robot show in Rebuild. Redecontructionism?

SPOILER: Show

I'll ignore the dumb grammar and point out that Webuild 1.0 and 2.0 are probably the equivalents of the introductory and action arcs. If you only consider the first fifteen episodes of Evangelion, it's not really all that great a show, and it's certainly not groundbreaking. Wait until 3.0 comes out before saying it's a dumb robot show.


SPOILER: Show
I'll ignore the Lapsus Calami and point out that one of the intentions is to make the show more "understandable" and "accessible" which means that beyond milking the franchise, don't expect anything revolutionary or another mind fuck.

Dr. Nick
Committeeperson
Committeeperson
User avatar
Age: 36
Posts: 1944
Joined: Feb 19, 2007
Location: Finland
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Dr. Nick » Sun Aug 02, 2009 3:13 pm

(Rahxephon tangent hoisted here, as usual.)


Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests