Timstuff wrote:However, Rei finally standing up to Gendo was definitely a noticeable change from her previous behavior that could be chalked up to being unmediated.

And that is exactly why i think using mood altering drugs instead of chemicals that she must take in order to survive would be a pretty poor choice for controlling her on Gendo's part.

I mean, nobody is force-feeding Rei the pills. What if one day she spontaneously decides not to take her pills anymore? That's just to great a liability, even if "spontaneous" and "Rei" don't seem to go hand in hand.

I think ascribing Rei's rebelliion and setting her own path to drugs probably misses the point - I see Rei's rebelliion as a powerful story of coming of age, coming into her power. If drugs make her malleable, wouldn't they follow that strategy with other pilots?

The same could be said about giving her deficiencies. For Rei's specific purpose, it seems like Gendo wanted her to be very submissive to his will, and he likely accomplishes this in a variety of ways. Keeping Rei popping a constant stream of pills might be one way he accomplishes this, but I do doubt it's the only way.

It's not just about her obeying orders as a pilot either, because if that were the case, they might as well do away with regular human pilots altogether and just stick with clones.

Just thought you guys might find interest in this: http://www.healthline.com/pillfinder?color=redwhite&shape=capsule&marking=&name=
The majority of them are pain relievers, but that may just be coincidence. :P
Maybe they have to do with unnatural aging or surgery or something (wait a sec, when Rei emerged out of Lilith, wasn't she already so and so old in appearance?)

Quite honestly, I don't think the pills have much of anything to do with altering Rei's mental state. Besides the side effects having possible negative repercussions on sync ratio, I don't really see the point of Nerv using them to keep Rei under control. They could certainly do that using other, more effective, methods if they really needed to. There was also no real mention of it being used as such (or anything else for that matter, but either case, it wasn't pointed out specifically to the viewer, in which case, them being used Rei's well being rather than for manipulation seems much more plausible).

Zaque wrote:I don't really see the point of Nerv using them to keep Rei under control. They could certainly do that using other, more effective, methods if they really needed to. There was also no real mention of it being used as such (or anything else for that matter, but either case, it wasn't pointed out specifically to the viewer, in which case, them being used Rei's well being rather than for manipulation seems much more plausible).

I was suggesting the they were used to ensure her well being, and that this dependency on pills could be seen as something of a security measure. Rei was crucial for Gendo's plans, after all. So, using the pills to keep her healthy and in check are not contradictory goals.

Granted, this whole scheme has to bypass the "Rei wants to die" argument, but i thunk things are more complicated than that.

Zaque wrote:Just thought you guys might find interest in this: http://www.healthline.com/pillfinder?color=redwhite&shape=capsule&marking=&name=
The majority of them are pain relievers, but that may just be coincidence. :P
Maybe they have to do with unnatural aging or surgery or something (wait a sec, when Rei emerged out of Lilith, wasn't she already so and so old in appearance?)

The red and white pills on her night stand would definitely make sense given that she was recovering from a serious physical injury. There's no real way of knowing what all the other pills were, though...

Timstuff wrote:they might as well do away with regular human pilots altogether and just stick with clones.

If they could, I'm sure they would - but apparently they couldn't split [whoever's] soul that many times and must instead rely on the A10 connection between moms and pilots.

But they did try to use clones and such, hence the dummy plugs and whatever else was going on. But as we see with Rei, there seems to be lot of problems associated with these experiments while overall Asuka and Shinji piloting with the respective soul of their mothers were much more "stable".

Timstuff wrote:they might as well do away with regular human pilots altogether and just stick with clones.

I always thought that was Nerv's/Seele's original plan. Evas with artificial souls, controlled by dummy plugs, sporting an S2.

@Topic:
I guess i exhausted all i had to say about this one. Since the idea of what the pills are used for is never really elaborated upon in the series, what you think about them comes down to how do you want to see Rei, i guess.

BattleMonkey wrote:But they did try to use clones

Not really. They tried to use Rei (and probably Kaworu) clones in the form of dummy plugs (though that's slightly debated), not just any old "clones". Special circumstances. Rei's dummy plugs didn't work fantastically, Kaworu's did (unique circumstance).

@SaltyJoe: Well, I think one should base what you believe on a little more evidence is all - and a good fanwank is still enjoyable.

VoidEater wrote:They tried to use Rei (and probably Kaworu) clones in the form of dummy plugs (though that's slightly debated)

In before repost of Ritsuko's remote with Rei clone count starting at "004"... (I.e., no real "debate" -- the three missing Rei are accounted for; the rest are in the tank and not in any plugs.)

SaltyJoe wrote:Since the idea of what the pills are used for is never really elaborated upon in the series, what you think about them comes down to how do you want to see Rei, i guess.

This.

Also, in case this wasn't mentioned (haven't followed the thread, so maybe it was), but the background art for the beaker and medicines stays exactly the same throughout the show. I guess Rei's medication was such an important plot point that they felt no need to give us subtle visual hints that she abruptly stops taking them post-Rei 2 or something.......

Reichu wrote:

SaltyJoe wrote:Since the idea of what the pills are used for is never really elaborated upon in the series, what you think about them comes down to how do you want to see Rei, i guess.

This.

Also, in case this wasn't mentioned (haven't followed the thread, so maybe it was), but the background art for the beaker and medicines stays exactly the same throughout the show. I guess Rei's medication was such an important plot point that they felt no need to give us subtle visual hints that she abruptly stops taking them post-Rei 2 or something.......

I briefly mentioned something along the lines of this in passing, but didn't really make a point of it. It's primarily why I think they're just there for her well being (in the form of pain relievers)... nothing too "special".

SaltyJoe wrote:I was suggesting the they were used to ensure her well being, and that this dependency on pills could be seen as something of a security measure. Rei was crucial for Gendo's plans, after all. So, using the pills to keep her healthy and in check are not contradictory goals.

You know, this brings me to wonder if Rei was "fine" when she first emerged from Lilith but then Nerv/Gehirn did something to change it such that she needed the drugs (or something more along the lines of vitamin supplements) to stay "functioning" like normal. This rather than Rei emerging with deficiencies in the first place. BTW, we don't know who it was that worked with her after her "birth" do we? Ritsuko only comes in later...

My opinion is the boring one, i.e., the pills in Rei's apartment were given to her after the first failed activation test. Like Zaque (and others?) suggested, they're pain killers and antibiotics. They're still there long afterward because Rei never cleans her apartment.

In my experience, psych-effect pills are small and round and for heaven's sake they don't come in bubble packaging. Neither do supplements.

Baz wrote:My opinion is the boring one, i.e., the pills in Rei's apartment were given to her after the first failed activation test. Like Zaque (and others?) suggested, they're pain killers and antibiotics. They're still there long afterward because Rei never cleans her apartment.

Personally, I think this.

Problem is, little Rei 1 took a bunch of drugs, too.

Speaking of, I don't think you scanned in that image yet, did you?

If that's the case, maybe the drugs ARE for Rei to keep healthy/her body from falling apart, but it's not exactly needed? Dunno if this is a good analogy, but as long as you're healthy overall, you can usually get away with not taking vitamins depending on your situation. (Granted, drugs are completely different from vitamins or supplements, but...)

Edit: Typo.

Reichu wrote:Problem is, little Rei 1 took a bunch of drugs, too.

Notice how I carefully said "the pills in Rei's apartment" to cover my ass. I'll have to peek at eps 21 and 24. I guess one of the relevant images is at the beginning of this thread.

Baz wrote:Notice how I carefully said "the pills in Rei's apartment" to cover my ass.

An explanation for the pills would best take into account Rei 1's pills, as well, is what I meant.

@SSD: Nope, no scan yet.

Based on my knowledge, I always assumed the pills Rei took were for some issues regarding her body as well as some "influential" ones to maybe suppress her on some level.

It's very possible one or more of those medications is vital to her physical survival however. As to "keeping her AT field intact" or having her limbs fall off? Lol that is totally ridiculous.

I always thought Rei was falling apart physically because of her proximity to Adam and the Third Impact initiation (and I guess the "real" Lilith too) .
Eva Unit 1 "awakens" and Gendo even makes his intentions known, just as Rei's arm falls off. Makes sense to me.

As for Rei getting off the meds and becoming RoIA? No.

It's very possible one or more of those medications is vital to her physical survival however. As to "keeping her AT field intact" or having her limbs fall off? Lol that is totally ridiculous

You say that as if you never even saw End of Evangelion. It's not ridiculous, since Rei's body and personality are artificial, man-made constructs, and Mankind is sort of new at this "making life" thing.

I always thought Rei was falling apart physically because of her proximity to Adam and the Third Impact initiation (and I guess the "real" Lilith too) .
Eva Unit 1 "awakens" and Gendo even makes his intentions known, just as Rei's arm falls off. Makes sense to me.

Then why wasn't Rei falling apart the last time she was in Terminal Dogma in episode 24? Everything needed for Third Impact was right there, and there's no aspect of initiating Third Impact that would magically make Rei's body fall apart.