Why did the Angels decide to work alone?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

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Postby Reichu » Fri May 15, 2009 7:50 pm

Oedipusfoot wrote:Reichu: What did you mean about the Angels being "intrinsically human"? You're drawing this from their DNA and from Misato's EoE speech, right?

Yeah. Also check out Sandalphon before it transforms.

I wonder what the significance is behind Angels being able to choose their own form, but the "humans," Lilith's children, can't.

Our mysterious progenitor aliens felt like populating the galaxy with different "strains" of humanity, I guess.

Why did Lilith and Adam need “successors” to reach them?

To press the magic switches on them that activate varying combinations of evolution, retrogression, and doomsday. Or something.

What would happen to those Angels who didn’t merge with Adam/Lilith, supposing that they woke up closely after each other?

They probably wouldn't be able to enjoy themselves, I'm sure.
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Postby Oedipusfoot » Fri May 15, 2009 8:15 pm

^ Hey...

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Postby TheLobe » Fri May 15, 2009 8:33 pm

where they aware of each others existence? I mean if they were born like sandalphon, and then proceeded to nerv, they probably didn't know that there was others out there.

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Postby Alaska Slim » Sat May 16, 2009 12:39 am

Reichu wrote:
Oedipusfoot wrote:...Angels being "intrinsically human"?

Yeah. Also check out Sandalphon before it transforms.

And that thing Ritsuko gets arrested for in 23.

where they aware of each others existence? I mean if they were born like sandalphon, and then proceeded to nerv, they probably didn't know that there was others out there.

Kawrou himself knew of Adam and Lilith, just not where they respectively were. :um:
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Postby Legendary » Sat May 16, 2009 1:16 am

Alaska Slim wrote:Kawrou himself knew of Adam and Lilith, just not where they respectively were. :um:


Kaworu is a special case, as he was definitely active for some period of time with Seele as his controller. They would have told him about such things.

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Postby TheLobe » Sat May 16, 2009 3:46 am

also kaworus got adams soul, so probably already knows about his children.

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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Sat May 16, 2009 11:34 am

Reichu wrote:@Axell: But they're such interesting plot devices...... I do agree that "plot device" is the simplest answer to the original question, however.


Kaworu is the worst one.
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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Sat May 16, 2009 11:47 am

I don't know about the other angels, but Armisael seems to know of the existence of the other angels ("we are many, but you are alone"). However, it also seems like one of the most intelligent angels too; the others almost seem like stimulus, response one-time use machines (Ramiel and Sahaquiel, for example). They try to get to Lilith and defend themselves if attacked; that's all.
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Postby Reichu » Sat May 16, 2009 12:08 pm

Gamer_2k4 wrote:I don't know about the other angels, but Armisael seems to know of the existence of the other angels ("we are many, but you are alone").

Rei 2 says the line you quote.

As for the rest... Non-communicative is not the same as less intelligent, and communicative is not the same as more intelligent. People in general tend to have this sort of bias, "If it can't/doesn't talk to me, it's not as smart." Sometimes people make these kinds of assumptions about their fellow humans IRL, as well. And they can be devastatingly wrong. The conclusion doesn't follow the premise. Then, this isn't the Angel Intelligence thread.
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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Sat May 16, 2009 12:47 pm

Reichu wrote:
Gamer_2k4 wrote:I don't know about the other angels, but Armisael seems to know of the existence of the other angels ("we are many, but you are alone").

Rei 2 says the line you quote.

Oh...they sound the same. >_>

I do know that in the manga, Armisael very definitely acknowledges the others, but I didn't mention that because it's non-canon or whatever.
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Postby Reichu » Sat May 16, 2009 1:32 pm

Gamer_2k4 wrote:I do know that in the manga, Armisael very definitely acknowledges the others, but I didn't mention that because it's non-canon or whatever.

I just looked, and I don't see it anywhere.
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Postby Gamer_2k4 » Sat May 16, 2009 2:32 pm

Reichu wrote:
Gamer_2k4 wrote:I do know that in the manga, Armisael very definitely acknowledges the others, but I didn't mention that because it's non-canon or whatever.

I just looked, and I don't see it anywhere.

Oh...their speech bubbles are the same. >_>
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Postby Joseph the PRPD » Sat May 16, 2009 2:38 pm

Why do the angels work alone?



The plot demands it.
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Postby ZapX » Sat May 16, 2009 3:20 pm

Joseph the PRPD wrote:The plot demands it.

'Bout two weeks too late, brah.
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Postby Alaska Slim » Sat May 16, 2009 10:48 pm

Legendary wrote:Kaworu is a special case, as he was definitely active for some period of time with Seele as his controller. They would have told him about such things.

They lied about who Lilith was, I'd be surprised if her existence ever came up as a topic. :headscratch:

TheLobe wrote:also kaworus got adams soul, so probably already knows about his children.

Lilith isn't one of them though.
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Postby Reichu » Sat May 16, 2009 11:03 pm

Alaska Slim wrote:They lied about who Lilith was, I'd be surprised if her existence ever came up as a topic.

Episode 24' wrote:KAWORU:
Hope? You're saying that is the Lilim's hope?

SEELE C:
Hope exists in as many forms as there are people.

SEELE A:
And that is because hope only exists in the hearts of people.

KEEL:
However, our hope is becoming substantiated.

SEELE B:
That is Lilith, the progenitor of mankind
who are the false successors from the black moon.

SEELE C:
And Adam, the progenitor of the Angels
who are the true successors from the lost white moon.

In any case, Tabris is basically an artificial anomaly, and therefore non-applicable in most discussions about Adam's children. For some reason, folks tend to insist on bringing him up anyway.
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Postby TheLobe » Mon May 18, 2009 3:04 am

Alaska Slim wrote:
TheLobe wrote:also kaworus got adams soul, so probably already knows about his children.

Lilith isn't one of them though.

true, but working with seele it wouldn't be to difficult to find out.

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Postby VoidEater » Mon May 18, 2009 2:20 pm

I doubt that the Angels "decided" to work alone. They are complete entities, as opposed to Lilim (a single entity split over billions of bodies). It may not occur to them to create alliances.

They are unique entities, each unto itself, producing their own external form (I imagine it's how they imagine themselves). It seems logical their fixation on reaching Adam may be some kind of test that will deliver their chosen form to "sucessor" (inheritor of the Earth) status, explaining why they would be programmed with his capability.

If, as Gendo says, the Angels are "beginning to attain intelligence," it may be because the later ones are developing for a longer time, or through observing events and gaining information; or it may just be that the smarter ones are more deliberate or slower, showing up later. It's enticing to take Gendo's words at face value, but I wonder if that's just an observational perspective.

I've sometimes taken "fruit of knowledge" to equate with analytical thought, and that Angels generally acted upon something akin to instinct - but I've also euqated fruit of knowledge to be tool use, which may make more sense considering the "intelligence" found in later Angels.
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Postby Baz » Mon May 18, 2009 4:30 pm

One really out-there possibility is that there is only one angel soul that is continually reincarnating and learning as it goes along. There is some evidence for this, e.g. Armisael's angel tree means that Armi knew about previous angels. Also, if Angels don't reincarnate, then where do their souls go when they die? Back to Adam until she's ready to release them again?
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Postby BattleMonkey » Mon May 18, 2009 4:33 pm

Seeing as we see one specifically in dormant state before it turns to a full on angel, I would assume it's merely a case of them just not really being all that coordinated yet driven by same goal almost like instinct.


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