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Postby Mr. Tines » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:51 am

The Toji and Gendo spellings are the familiar ones from the ADV subs, and so have entered customary usage.
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Postby V » Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:06 am

Mr. Tines wrote:The Toji and Gendo spellings are the familiar ones from the ADV subs, and so have entered customary usage.


I see, that's the reason
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Postby Reichu » Sun Jan 20, 2008 2:23 pm

That's not the entire reason, but... I thought name spellings was one of the first things we went about resolving, V?
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Postby V » Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:51 pm

I was just bringing up that I noticed Rebuild did the same thing: but if we've already decided (frankly I'm in favor of just "Toji" as I'm not too picky) nevermind. (I didn't really want to change it anyway; might want to lock this thread now)
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Postby Szmitten » Mon Jan 21, 2008 12:48 pm

So, why Toji but not Lance of Longinus?

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Postby Reichu » Mon Jan 21, 2008 1:09 pm

The ADV scripts weren't the real reasoning behind the list of name Romanizations at all. The renditions fluctuate in the show itself and it would be rather tedious to go through all of them for every single character where variations are expected, not to mention renditions don't appear for some characters at all (i.e., the German cyborg). So I grabbed an entire list that I'd seen employed by more than one official source (Newtype books and Bandai cards, namely), although it didn't make it through entirely untouched by us.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:25 am

Ba-bump.

Since it's recently come up on a talk page between Ursus and myself, I was wondering what folks (at least, the few folks who actually look at this subforum) thought about revisiting the issue of Evas/Seeds and pronouns.

Ursus seems to have quietly revised the policy so that it can be "either/or" ("she" or "it"), but we really should just go with one or the other and stick to it (for NPOV articles and translations and the like). I can sacrifice my deeply-held sensibilities if it seems to be for the best, though I would rather miss the straightforward writing that using a personal pronoun entails ("it" gets used for a lot more things than "she" or "he")...
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Postby Twsa'teotu » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:30 am

well, I do think people should stop thinking of Adam as a "he"
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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:47 am

Twsa'teotu wrote:well, I do think people should stop thinking of Adam as a "he"

Whatever "people" call Adam is a bit of a separate issue. For the purposes of the site, "he" was excluded early on.

I'm trying to prompt a decision between feminine pronouns for Evas, Adam, and Lilith, or boring ol' "it". If you're unfamiliar with the nature of this argument, finding stuff on it shouldn't be too difficult (try the earlier pages of this thread, to start).

EDIT: Additionally, I want to propose the following (since they're bothering me) and Make It Official.

Dummy System --> dummy system
Dummy Plug --> dummy plug
Contact Experiment --> contact experiment
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Postby Mr. Tines » Tue Apr 14, 2009 12:53 pm

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Postby Oedipusfoot » Tue Apr 14, 2009 1:16 pm

Mr. Tines wrote:A modest proposal


Heh.

I like that, but...

That would be strange to outsiders and make the site too informal. I say we go with 'it.' (regardless of the gender of the soul, for the Evas) Though 'it' is kind of too nonspecific. There are other ways of referring to the subject without using pronouns. We should just..ah...

Eva unit 1 went to the mall. ->The Eva found a store. ->this is where it would have to go to 'it.' Otherwise you'd have to find a creative way to say things, like-> and so the synthetic human...

But that's informal and a pain.

I'm all for the Tines pronoun besides the fact that it isn't used anywhere else. We'd need to have a huge sign somewhere explaining it's use.

The Japanese don't use specific pronouns like 'you' all the time, so theirs already a void in the script where ADV has inserted "she's" in the like. Lets just add a zero as a placeholder for a term not even used in the script and use 'it' everywhere. Wooo!

On The Capitalize Changes: What's your thinking behind doing so?

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Postby Ornette » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:15 pm

They are capitalized because it's a title of a page. You don't have to use them capitalized in regular text, but you do need to do the [[Dummy System|dummy system]] thing.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:41 pm

Ornette wrote:They are capitalized because it's a title of a page. You don't have to use them capitalized in regular text, but you do need to do the [[Dummy System|dummy system]] thing.

People are capitalizing them in regular text. I want a formal switchover to lowercase so we don't have to deal with inconsistencies. This would involve moving the page names so we can just do [[contact experiment]] and not the cumbersome [[Contact Experiment|contact experiment]] gig.

As for pronouns, I don't think we should make the choice any more convoluted than necessary. "Ve" was forwarded early on; I tried to advocate for it, but it's just not accessible enough to work here. We have two choices, and we have to decide. I've put this off since that big thread ORAMI!? instigated a while back, where it was somewhat rightfully noted that the "she" thing has the tendency of creating a cliquey atmosphere and damaging [NPOV] credibility.

Ultimately, "she" probably can't be justified for use in the Evapedia and other things so blandly standardized, so my cold and logical side is going to recommend that we abolish it, while my passionate and aesthetic side shall weep. Awaiting yeas/nays.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:47 pm

I think we could use "She" for Adam, Lilith and the Eva but "ve" for the Angels. My two cents.
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Postby Ornette » Tue Apr 14, 2009 4:54 pm

But you see, the mediawiki software ALWAYS capitalizes. Even if you try to rename it you get: Source and destination titles are the same; can't move a page over itself.

We could always just implement some fancy .htaccess style redirecting, like Wikipedia does: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/spinal_disc_herniation

And as far as intercaps, I don't really care. "Dummy Plug" or "Dummy plug", doesn't really matter to me. Just keep in mind that every single place that links to one or the other will break unless you add a redirect.

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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:00 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:I think we could use "She" for Adam, Lilith and the Eva but "ve" for the Angels. My two cents.

Angels have been "it" all along, so they're not being revisited right now. Just Seeds and Evas, for the reasons stated in my initial post. I really want to keep this as simple as possible...

@Ornette: I'm not sure I know what you mean about MediaWiki "always capitalizing". We have a page called [[Evangelion equipment]], for example, but try linking to [[Evangelion Equipment]] and you'll get red text.
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Postby Ornette » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:06 pm

Reichu wrote:@Ornette: I'm not sure I know what you mean about MediaWiki "always capitalizing". We have a page called [[Evangelion equipment]], for example, but try linking to [[Evangelion Equipment]] and you'll get red text.

Try moving it to "evangelion equipment". Mediawiki always capitalizes the first word. By "intercaps", I mean a capital letter in the middle.

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Postby UrsusArctos » Tue Apr 14, 2009 7:57 pm

No objections to those changes, Reichu.

I made that change to avoid having too many changes from "she" to "it" and back again. Not so much to promote consistency as to avoid having to fix something that goes against conventions. A lazy compromise, but the best I could come up with. However, if I had to choose, I would go with "it" for the Evas and "she" for Adam and Lilith.
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Postby Reichu » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:28 pm

UrsusArctos wrote:However, if I had to choose, I would go with "it" for the Evas and "she" for Adam and Lilith.

Earlier, I mentioned the issue of 'minimizing controversy and increasing credibility'. With that in mind, consider: If you surveyed pronoun usage among the members of this forum, the results would indicate that the number of people who refer to Evas with female pronouns vastly outnumbers those who do the same for Adam -- i.e., you're advocating that we keep one of the usages that is in fact MORE objectionable, and sacrifice one that fewer people will have issue with.

Man, and I was hoping this whole thing would be this easy:

WE NEED TO CHOOSE WHICH PRONOUN TO USE FOR EVAS, ADAM, AND LILITH. PLEASE MARK YOUR VOTE BELOW. YOU ONLY GET ONE, FROM THE TWO PROVIDED.

_ SHE
_ IT
Last edited by Reichu on Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby ZapX » Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:31 pm

WE NEED TO CHOOSE BETWEEN COLLECTIVELY REFERRING TO EVAS, ADAM, AND LILITH AS 'SHE' OR 'IT'. PLEASE MARK YOUR VOTE BELOW. YOU ONLY GET ONE.

_ SHE
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