Was Kaworu really Adam?

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only.

Moderator: Board Staff

V
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 2000
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Location: @the end of the universe

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby V » Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:50 pm

NemZ wrote:Does 25 come before 24 in your universe, V?


How does 24 change this?
Who is "Codename V"?....
I'm pleased to meet you and I hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game...so catch me if you can!! (0:50)
"Superior ability breeds superior ambition" -- Spock, Star Trek TOS episode 1.24 "Space Seed"
You say you say you want a REvolution?...
-->It was only after I lost everything, that I realized: I was free to do anything...

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23759
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:04 am

AuraTwilight wrote:Fair enough, but then where was the soul inbetween Tabris' birth and Adam's 'splosion? Souls in the Evaverse don't seem like they can generally remain disembodied for whatever reason.

If Adam's soul flew off somewhere and was later salvaged, then apparently they can remain disembodied (at least for some unspecified amount of time). (If you buy into the idea about Armisael trying to resurrect the dead, the souls of 3~15 would have been all been lying around for anywhere from days to months, as well.)

As for "where" -- presumably descended into the ocean and sloshed around until at last fished out.

master_lloyd wrote:So Kaworu's body was created by the Second Impact, but remained soulless until Seele recovered Adam's and put it there?

Yeah, pretty much.

That seems like a bit of a hassle.

Dude. This is Seele we're talking about.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

V
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 2000
Joined: Feb 14, 2007
Location: @the end of the universe

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby V » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:42 am

master_lloyd wrote:So Kaworu's body was created by the Second Impact, but remained soulless until Seele recovered Adam's and put it there?

Yeah, pretty much.


Unproven, though much about Kaworu is unproven.
Who is "Codename V"?....
I'm pleased to meet you and I hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game...so catch me if you can!! (0:50)
"Superior ability breeds superior ambition" -- Spock, Star Trek TOS episode 1.24 "Space Seed"
You say you say you want a REvolution?...
-->It was only after I lost everything, that I realized: I was free to do anything...

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23759
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 31, 2008 11:58 am

V wrote:Unproven, though much about Kaworu is unproven.

I wasn't stating blind assertions; it's all based on information we're provided. If it's "unproven" just because it isn't flat-out stated somewhere, that sort of goes without saying. If you have a problem with one of the premises, perhaps you can provide actual specifics...
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3317
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:24 pm

(If you buy into the idea about Armisael trying to resurrect the dead, the souls of 3~15 would have been all been lying around for anywhere from days to months, as well.)


What about the Quantum Magic interpretation?

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23759
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:10 pm

My brain doesn't recall any "Quantum Magic Interpretation" of direct relevance to the quoted text. You'll have to explain a little more thoroughly.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3317
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:23 pm

I've read more than a few posts postulating that, similar to Rei's stuff during Instrumentality, Armisael pulled the other Angels' souls to that point in time when she tried to revive them.

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23759
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:34 pm

I came up with the original theory however many years back, and "quantum magic" had never been specified as the mechanic of soul retrieval, either by me or by any variation that I can remember seeing. I personally figured the souls would all still be hanging around in the present day, like "ghosts" -- but "quantum magic" is as good an explanation as any for how Armisael "collects" them. :hahaha:
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

Hazukari
Embryo
User avatar
Posts: 27
Joined: Mar 19, 2008
Location: DEFENITELY NOT Tokyo 3

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Hazukari » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:23 pm

my belief and theory is that Kaworu is like Rei in that his structure is that of Adam though in literal sense he is not adam but made up of componets of him and some other human (i.e Rei was yui) so kaworu may have been based off a human (though this is to be determined)
"We are like petals that fall from a blossom tree, we are destined to fall to the ground, yet the wind carries us like fate"

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3317
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:10 pm

He obviously DOES have a human component, though, that's pretty much a fact. Regardless of whether they're made of LCL or PWM, Rei and Kaworu are both Angel souls in Lilim bodies.

NemZ
Token Misanthrope
Token Misanthrope
User avatar
Posts: 15804
Joined: Jun 28, 2008
Location: St. Louis
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby NemZ » Fri Jan 02, 2009 4:50 pm

V wrote:How does 24 change this?


I said she didn't know (at least, not consciously) until 24. You replied with evidence from 25... which, last I checked, would not at all refute me do to being chronologically later.
Rest In Peace ~ 1978 - 2017
"I'd consider myself a realist, alright? but in philosophical terms I'm what's called a pessimist. It means I'm bad at parties." - Rust Cohle
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize that half of 'em are stupider than that." - George Carlin
"The internet: It's like a training camp for never amounting to anything." - Oglaf
"I think internet message boards and the like are dangerous." - Anno

Joseph the PRPD
Elder God
Elder God
Age: 26
Posts: 6339
Joined: Dec 19, 2008
Location: League City, TX
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joseph the PRPD » Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:42 pm

It's hard to say really...
Kaworu's origin are highly unknown. Even in the angelic days manga he's a complete mystery. There it looked like he can summon Adam and had powers not seen in NGE.
Cheese wheel in the U.S. Coast Guard.

Reichu
Death True True
Death True True
User avatar
Posts: 23759
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Starship Eva
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:17 pm

Joseph the PRPD wrote:Kaworu's origin are highly unknown.

Don't make it sound like we don't know anything at all.
What if... Kaworu bonded with Misato instead of Shinji, and the two of them were siblings?
Father Brother Lover Mother (AO3, FF.net)
The path to an alternate Third Impact has reached stage 19 (5/22)!

Joseph the PRPD
Elder God
Elder God
Age: 26
Posts: 6339
Joined: Dec 19, 2008
Location: League City, TX
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Joseph the PRPD » Sat Jan 10, 2009 5:45 pm

Reichu wrote:
Joseph the PRPD wrote:Kaworu's origin are highly unknown.

Don't make it sound like we don't know anything at all.


It did not mean to make it sound that way.... :|
Cheese wheel in the U.S. Coast Guard.

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3317
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Sat Jan 10, 2009 7:46 pm

Even in the angelic days manga he's a complete plot hole.


Fixed.


Return to “Evangelion Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests