If you could get a guaranteed straight answer...

For serious and at times in-depth discussions only, covering the original TV series, the movies End of Evangelion and Death & Rebirth.

Moderator: Board Staff

Ornette
Administrator
Administrator
User avatar
Age: 46
Posts: 11844
Joined: Dec 26, 2005
Location: Pittsburgh/New York City
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Ornette » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:10 pm

Count A'ight wrote:That "Classified Information" stuff is pretty amusing, especially the part where Adam is the white giant crucified in Terminal Dogma, and the (lunar) Moon has collided with the Earth (then what's that big light in the night sky?)

Note the "Ranks" in the information given and how they contradict each other. See that the Adam in Terminal Dogma is labeled "Generally Recognized Information", like what Kaji and Misato thought. There is something called a "moon" which is what the geofront (confusingly labeled the "black moon") is within, and when that crashed into earth the "moon" part became Earth's satelite. The wording of sections like that is very confusing without translation notes.

Chowwow
Ireul
Ireul
User avatar
Age: 34
Posts: 683
Joined: Mar 05, 2008
Location: Michigan, U.S.A
Gender: Male
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Chowwow » Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:46 pm

If I could get a straight answer from NGE, it would be:

What was Yui Ikari thinking when she did what she did? And was she aware of the consequences afterward?

A large part of me actually doesn't want that to be answered, though, because it's that mystery that leads to her appeal...

Count A'ight
Banned
User avatar
Posts: 212
Joined: Nov 15, 2008

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Count A'ight » Thu Dec 04, 2008 2:19 am

Mine would be this:

Why does Yui have wings in the extended OP?
If I'm pissing you off, just remember: it was Magami No ER who told me about this place, so blame him/her.

Szmitten
Gaghiel
Gaghiel
Posts: 383
Joined: Sep 06, 2006

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Szmitten » Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:36 pm

Did you really give any forethought on all that, or were you just running with the idea?

Semisubtle
Lilith
User avatar
Posts: 119
Joined: Nov 03, 2007
Location: Connecticut
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Semisubtle » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:01 pm

Ornette wrote:See that the Adam in Terminal Dogma is labeled "Generally Recognized Information", like what Kaji and Misato thought.


A bit off-topic, but why did Kaji mistake Lilith for Adam when he'd seen and delivered Adam to Gendo himself? I was never clear on that.

And to keep things topic-relavent: Were every one of Eva 01's actions determined by Yui, or does a pilot's synchronization with an Eva give it complete control over the Eva's actions/will (at least until it goes berserk)? In other words, when an Eva acts exactly as its pilot commands, is that because the soul inside the Eva agrees with the pilot's wish or some other reason?

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Thu Dec 04, 2008 4:33 pm

Semisubtle wrote:A bit off-topic, but why did Kaji mistake Lilith for Adam when he'd seen and delivered Adam to Gendo himself? I was never clear on that.

It is indeed off-topic. There are various threads of various agedness that discuss the matter, though. (Here's one with an awesome title.)
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

GAP
Matarael
Matarael
User avatar
Age: 33
Posts: 573
Joined: Dec 01, 2008
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby GAP » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:40 pm

-


I have questions about the Angels themselves:

- What was their purpose for being on Earth?
- I always thought there were ancient superbeings but I learned that there were aliens? Are they really aliens or are they something else?
- What were the Angels trying to achieve anyway by returning to Lilith?
Fall into GAP! Guernsey Adams Pierre

AyrYntake
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 615
Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Location: Depends...
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AyrYntake » Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:59 pm

The Angels are the offspring of Adam, a Seed of Life, who was originally meant to populate the Earth. Along came Lilith, causing the First Impact, and as a result Adam was immobilized by his LnY (Longinus no Yari, or Spear of Longinus) in order to prevent the Second Impact.

The Second Impact released Adam from his immobility, eventually spawning the Angels. From then on they wandered the Earth, some of them attempting to return to Adam.
Last edited by AyrYntake on Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Cirrus, Socrates, particle, decibel, hurricane, dolphin, tulip

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:07 pm

AyrYntake wrote:From then on they wandered the Earth, some of them attempting to return to Adam.

Wandered the Earth for 15 years? Surely someone would have noticed. :tongueflap:

Also, Sandalphon.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

AyrYntake
Sahaquiel
Sahaquiel
User avatar
Age: 29
Posts: 615
Joined: Jun 26, 2008
Location: Depends...
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AyrYntake » Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:15 pm

Sorry, lack of sleep has turned me into a rambling idiot. :redface:
Fixed.
:sheepish grin:
Cirrus, Socrates, particle, decibel, hurricane, dolphin, tulip

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:45 pm

I actually meant this:

- We see Sandalphon incubating inside a so-called "chrysalis", from which it later hatches.
- We know that no Angels were sighted between 2I and 2015. ("It's been 15 years, hasn't it?")
- The Angels were probably all undergoing physical development inside those egg-like things during this time, hidden in secluded locations (e.g. ocean-bottom).
- Hence no Angels would have been "wandering the Earth" until 2015, when they all hatched (= mysteriously appeared) one by one.

Hopefully that makes sense.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3317
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:53 pm

- What was their purpose for being on Earth?
- I always thought there were ancient superbeings but I learned that there were aliens? Are they really aliens or are they something else?
- What were the Angels trying to achieve anyway by returning to Lilith?


It's THEIR native planet. Our kinda kinda ursurped it, so the better question is why are WE here?

They're the children of Adam. They're as native to Earth as we are, if not more so, and they're the alternate path of evolution humans could've taken.

They thought Lilith was their mommy, Adam, since they probably "sense" them the same way. Returning to Adam would cause the Third Impact, which would destroy all Lilith-based life and make the planet suitable for the Angels.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:08 pm

AuraTwilight wrote:they're the alternate path of evolution humans could've taken.

This is a sort of weird interpretation of the relevant bit in EoE (from bb's script, I think). Nothing is said about "alternate evolutionary pathways". Misato just says that the Angels are (a race of) humans who 'reject human form' (i.e., they start off human and metamorph into something else, as seen with Sandalphon), and that they were "another possibility" (and, collectively, they are a different possibility of human life, as furnished by Adam as opposed to Lilith).

The stuff you already know is there for the people who don't know it.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

AuraTwilight
Evangelion
Evangelion
User avatar
Posts: 3317
Joined: Mar 16, 2008
Location: Za Warudo

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby AuraTwilight » Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:09 am

Reichu wrote:
AuraTwilight wrote:they're the alternate path of evolution humans could've taken.

This is a sort of weird interpretation of the relevant bit in EoE (from bb's script, I think). Nothing is said about "alternate evolutionary pathways". Misato just says that the Angels are (a race of) humans who 'reject human form' (i.e., they start off human and metamorph into something else, as seen with Sandalphon), and that they were "another possibility" (and, collectively, they are a different possibility of human life, as furnished by Adam as opposed to Lilith).

The stuff you already know is there for the people who don't know it.


There's really not much significant difference beyond semantics.

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 08, 2008 1:13 am

How are Angels an "alternate path of evolution we could've taken" if we would've needed to be created by a whole different Seed in order to be like them? Evolution has nothing to do with it.
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog

Sachi
Oh Daddy!
Oh Daddy!
User avatar
Age: 27
Posts: 10134
Joined: Aug 29, 2006
Location: Hollywoo
Gender: Male

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Sachi » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:34 am

Reichu wrote:How are Angels an "alternate path of evolution we could've taken" if we would've needed to be created by a whole different Seed in order to be like them? Evolution has nothing to do with it.

I haven't read the thread, but perhaps this is another biblical theme. Where Adam (not the Seed of Life, the Adam from the bible) took the fruit of Knowledge off the tree and was banished. Well, maybe it means that they chose the Fruit of Life instead.

I'm totally shooting this out of my ass though.
- Sachi

I host the discord server for the EvaGeeks forums. Join us! https://discord.gg/cWq9XGTjxd

TheAyanamiOtaku
Test Subject
Test Subject
User avatar
Posts: 2780
Joined: May 08, 2007
Location: Fran Sancisco

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby TheAyanamiOtaku » Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:41 am

IIRC, Anno seyd that he wouldn't have put the religious references if he knew that it was going to be big in America, but idano, he might've did his research regardless of that statement
Rei: I'm not your puppet.

The Allied States of Syraneen

Reichu
Admin Emeritus
Admin Emeritus
Posts: 24046
Joined: Aug 21, 2004
Location: Sailing for the white shores
Gender: Female
Contact:

  •      
  •      
  • Quote

Postby Reichu » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:47 am

Sachi_13 wrote:I haven't read the thread, but perhaps this is another biblical theme. Where Adam (not the Seed of Life, the Adam from the bible) took the fruit of Knowledge off the tree and was banished. Well, maybe it means that they chose the Fruit of Life instead.

I don't think any choice was involved here. The whole "FoK" / "FoL" thing is a fundamental dichotomy ("The Fruit of Life held by Angels", "The Fruit of Knowledge held by humans"); each type of humanity was simply born that way.

"A different path of evolution we could've taken" would, however, apply to a race of Lilin who had evolved from something other than simian stock. In NGE, we can more or less deduce that Lilith-based life is evolving in accordance with the conceit of evolutionary predestiny, i.e. things are somehow rigged so that one species will emerge with a humanoid form and "be endowed with" the Fruit of Knowledge. The way things went down, these humans evolved from apes, but if apes had never evolved then humans would have emerged from a different lineage. A similar thought process went into the doofy-looking "dinosauroid" mentioned here (which is interesting conceptually, but not good for much else).
さらば、全てのEvaGeeks。
「滅びの運命は新生の喜びでもある」
Departure Message | The Arqa Apocrypha: An Evangelion Analysis Blog


Return to “Evangelion TV Series + EoE Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests