Kikaku Kaigi [Project Meeting]

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Kikaku Kaigi [Project Meeting]

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Postby NAveryW » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:18 am

企画会議

[設定]
人類が生まれる前に高度なテクノロジーをもつ先史文明が2度存在した。最初の文明(第一始祖民族)はエヴァを造ったが、それが原因で滅ぶ。次の文明(第2 始祖民族)はロンギヌスの槍を造ってエヴァの封じ込めに成功、後に何者かがエヴァを復活させたときの対抗策として、世界各地に使徒を眠らせた。


[解説]
この段階ではエヴァは「人の造りしもの」ではなく、始祖民族が眠らせたものを復活させたようです。そして、使徒はあくまでも、復活したエヴァを破壊するための存在です。


なお、言うまでもありませんが、ナウシカ,、ナディアなどの庵野監督が関係した作品とも非常に似ております。
高度なテクノロジーを誇った過去の文明、というのは、SFアニメの代表的な設定です。この段階では、後のエヴァが持つオリジナリティや複雑さを想像するのは難しいものがあります。
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Postby Mr. Tines » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:25 am

Needs better translation than this:-

Planning Meeting

Settings
Unborn human beings have advanced technology to present twice a prehistoric civilization. The first civilizations (founder of the first race) is made to Eva, but because of滅ぶ. Next civilization (founder of the second race) is to create and Longinus spear successful containment of Eva, Eva after the unidentified man was revived when his counterpart as a messenger眠らせたaround the world.


[Explanation]
Eva is this stage in the "servants of the people-building" rather than the founder of ethnic眠らせたto revive him. And are those messengers, in order to destroy the return of the presence of Eva.


However, to say nothing, Nausicaa, such as Nadia Hermitage Director-related fields are very similar work.
Past boasted of its advanced technology to civilization, that is, SF typical cartoon setting. At this stage, after Eva's originality and complexity is difficult to imagine.

==== 2020 upgrade

Planning meeting

[Configuration]
Before the human race was born, there were two prehistoric civilizations with advanced technology. The first civilization (the first founding people) created Eva, which causes it to die. The next civilization (the 2nd founding ancestor) built a spear of Longinus and succeeded in containing Eva, and put apostles to sleep all over the world as a countermeasure when someone later revived Eva.


[Explanation]
At this stage, Eva seems to have revived what the founding nations had slept on, rather than "man made artifacts." And the apostle is the existence to destroy the revived Eva.


Needless to say, it is also very similar to the works related to Director Anno, such as Nausicaa, and Nadia.
The civilization of the past that boasted advanced technology is a typical setting for science fiction animation. At this stage it can be difficult to imagine the originality and complexity of the later Eva.
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Postby NAveryW » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:35 am

This seems (from the crappy auto-translation) to fit in with what Reichu was saying about Yamashita talking in Sore wo Nasumono about Evangelion being created by an ancient society, and then the Evangelion ending up destroying society and such, and the Spear of Longinus being a "safety device" (as it still ended up being). She also said something about "two phases" in terms of human technology, which may be related to "advanced technology to present twice a prehistoric civilization".
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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 13, 2008 4:23 am

Source / original context / etc.?

Oh, and for those curious about the Spear of Longinus blurb in Sore o nasumono, here's the (partial) translation, which has its dodgy bits:

Spear of Longinus: By the time humanity evolved, two prehistoric civilizations with extremely advanced technology had led existences on Earth. The first civilization created Eva, which was the cause of their destruction, and the next created the Spear of Longinus and successfully contained Eva. Afterwards, as a safeguard in the event that someone revived Eva, Angels were planted [placed into slumbers] to act as fully-automated safety devices, so to speak.

I have no idea what Yamashita says in the following paragraph that might put the above into context -- unless the "going wild" (bousou) and "project meeting" (kikaku kaigi :wink: ) are somehow interrelated. :bigeyes:

There's also something about how the Spear was originally designed as a firearm (?!?), but I was never able to make much sense of that, either.

Ikuto Yamashita wrote:ロンギヌスの槍:人類が生まれるまでに非常に高度なテクノロジーをもつ先史文明が地球上に二相存在し、最初の文明がEVAを造ってそれが原因で滅ぼ、次の文明\がロンギヌスの槍をつくってEVAを封じ込めに成功、後に何者かがEVAを復活させたときの対抗策、いわば全自動の安全装置として使徒を眠らせた。

当事者間でも、すでに話が暴走しているいまとなってはどうかは知りませんが、これが企画会議のとき決められた設定。ただの槍では芸がないけど、究極の金属をひねっただけしました。これはもともと対EVA用の火器の砲身で、通常、ゴムひもをビョ~ンと延ばしたような環状のもので、そのリングの中に空間を折り曲げるかたちで莫大なエネルギーが封じ込めてあります、見えないけど。EVAが近づくと帯は鋭角にちぎれ、ひねりが入ってバレルを形成し、槍を封じ込んだときに滑り出てゆく弾体がいちばん下の輪の中に生まれます。
Last edited by Reichu on Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby AyrYntake » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:36 am

Preliminary Meeting
[Theme]
Before the birth of the human race, there twice existed prehistoric civilizations with advanced technology. The first civilization (the First Ancestral Race) created the EVA, but because of this they were destroyed. The next civilization (the Second Ancestral Race) created the Spears of Longinus, thus successfully containing the EVA; afterwards, as a countermeasure to anyone reviving the EVA, they planted Angels all over the world.
[Analysis]
At this stage EVA are not to be considered “man-made”, but beings resurrected by the Ancestral Races. Hence, the Angels exist largely to destroy the EVA and remove traces of their presence in the case of their revival.
However, it goes without saying that very similar themes are to be found in some of Director Anno’s works such as “Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind” and “Nadia”.
Ancient civilizations that boasted great technology are a typical theme found in Science Fiction anime. At this stage, it is difficult to imagine works with the same level or originality and complexity coming after EVA.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:22 am

You know Moonspeak?

I knew I was missing something with the "Angel" bit, but Yamashita left out the 'around the world' part, which threw me off. Fixed.

Whatever this is, it predates the Proposal, since Adam was introduced by that point and the Evas were definitely artificial beings created from "him". Proposal attributes the Angels' creation to the First Ancestral Race, as well; the Second seemed to have kicked the conceptual bucket by that point.
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Postby Action_Bastard » Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:21 pm

This sounds neat and all, but what the hell is it from?
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Postby NAveryW » Sat Sep 13, 2008 12:45 pm

Oh, this is awesome, awesome, AWESOME! Except for the fact that I was developing a story that had a rather similar backplot... I suppose I need to watch Nadia now to make sure my idea isn't too similar to something that actually ended up getting made.

The whole page is probably superstuffed full of interesting information. Said page is here. I found it by doing a Google search for Evangelion and アルカ.
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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:05 pm

It's basically, from what I can tell, going over NGE's conceptual evolution and changes observed through its various incarnations. The bit you posted is the "Project Meeting". The next one is the "Proposal", with all the tidbits drawn from said document. (So, no, nothing new on Arka. Sorry. :tongue: ) Then it goes onto the screenplays (presumably what's in the Evangelion Original books), to the storyboards, and so on.

Seems like a pretty interesting overview, but I wish they cited their sources more explicitly. (Well, maybe they do somewhere. I'd have to look around.) Also, they have more pages on NGE's history.
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Postby NAveryW » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:33 pm

Reichu wrote:It's basically, from what I can tell, going over NGE's conceptual evolution and changes observed through its various incarnations.
This is exactly what I was hoping for. In the words of Joe the Creationist, "Woo-hoo!"

The next one is the "Proposal", with all the tidbits drawn from said document. (So, no, nothing new on Arka. Sorry. :tongue: )
I gathered that much from a Google translation. I wasn't actually looking for anything new on Arka in particular, but I figured that if a website mentioned Arka, it may also mention other aspects of NGE's formation that are as-of-yet unknown to Occidentals. Apparently, I was correct.

Since this one page covers from extremely preliminary to final product, what more is there to discuss?
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Postby Reichu » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:47 pm

NAveryW wrote:This is exactly what I was hoping for. In the words of Joe the Creationist, "Woo-hoo!"

Now you just have to learn Moonspeak. (The Google "translation" is awful.)

Since this one page covers from extremely preliminary to final product, what more is there to discuss?

Well...

1. Story and Concept Changes
2. Human Instrumentality Project's History
3. History of the Angels
(Reference) Story and Concept Changes
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Postby Zaque » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:10 pm

Awesome find. It'll be interesting to see how Eva and the Angels evolved. Too bad I have no translation capabilities... :( Any idea on its credibility?
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Postby NAveryW » Sat Sep 13, 2008 2:31 pm

Zaque wrote:Any idea on its credibility?
It's supported by things we already know to be true and little bits that were translated from Sore wo Nasumono. In other words, it's reliable.
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Postby NAveryW » Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:38 pm

This site looks like it has some very, very interesting stuff.

以前掲示板で、謎の文字は、企画段階で存在した古代遺跡アルカの流れを引きずっているのではないかと書きました。最初のプロットで存在していたアルカが無くなったために、あの古代文字自体も出番を失ったのではないかと。

しかし、のちに、あの文字は死海文書のものであることが絵コンテからわかり、別の資料からジオフロントの中心がアルカと呼ばれていたことがわかったため、アルカはなくなったのではなく名前が変わった(もしくは消えた)だけで、設定そのものはリリスの卵として残っていることがわかりました。

ということで、上述のような内容でまとめました。

もちろん、この文字がビデオ版12巻以降で出現する可能性はあります。その時は設定がまた変更されているかもしれません。


If the way I'm reading the Google translation of this passage is correct, Arka is a Geofront, and the characters meet the First Ancestral Race within it. Of course, this could be completely off, but it definitely says "JIOFURONTO ARUKA" and mentions something about its creators.

Oh yeah, and it appears to say something about an alternate ending. Here's an excerpt:

アダムとユイ(シトとヒト)が融合したことによる、新しい、別個の人格と表情を持った女神エヴァ。

Google translates this as:

Adam and Yui (SHITO and human) is a fusion of a new, distinct personality and expression of a goddess Ava.


Most of the text doesn't make much sense, but it appears to be relating Yamashita's idea for a TV ending which involves the Evangelion being a giant female human.
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Postby CorporalChaos » Sat Sep 13, 2008 9:45 pm

Congrats on the awesome (and I really mean awesome) find, NAW
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Postby Action_Bastard » Sat Sep 13, 2008 11:29 pm

Again, can someone please clarify for me exactly what this is. Please?
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Postby Reichu » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:09 am

NAveryW wrote:If the way I'm reading the Google translation of this passage is correct

I can't really translate the Japanese worth crap, but they just seem to be analyzing the information we already have. If it's saying anything about Arka and the Geofront, it's something about Arka being inside the Geofront (but they're probably just speculating). Lilith's Egg is eventually brought up, apparently because it's all that conceptually remains of Arka in the final. (Chronicle seems to have some Proposal commentary to the same effect.) Nothing about "creators" that I'm seeing. The "characters" mentioned are moji, which are written characters. (I think they're referring to the ones used to write the DSS seen in the OP.)

Most of the text doesn't make much sense, but it appears to be relating Yamashita's idea for a TV ending which involves the Evangelion being a giant female human.

For the most part, it seems to be going on about how Eva-01 has hair at the end of #26', while bringing up the long-haired woman Shinji encounters in the entry plug in #16, and briefly mentioning that Yamashita ending concept (Eva-01 becoming a giant... Yui...?). So ultimately the fan page posits that Yui and her Adamic body fuse to produce the goddess "Eva", who looks different from Yui for reasons unknown, or, uh, something like that.

By and by, this isn't really anything we needed Japanese fans specifically to point out to us. The 16-26' juxtapositions have been done and the offering that "Yui becomes the Eva" has been made.

I get the feeling that this site will mostly be telling us things we already know, while throwing in constant reminders, "Gee, we really ought to get that source translated sometime..."

AB wrote:Again, can someone please clarify for me exactly what this is. Please?

You need to clarify exactly what it is you're asking about.
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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:44 pm

Bumping this since another thread mentioned this one.

Does this site have a creditable source? I'm guessing it's from some informative book or some such thing about Eva, but I didn't notice anything on the Japanese with the site (unless I just mis-looked something).

I could MAYBE give this a whack with translating some of this for the wiki, if I can find the time.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:10 pm

I couldn't find a source of the "project meeting" tidbit either. Yamashita does reference it in Sore o nasumono, so the fansite isn't pulling it out of nowhere, but further confirmation would be nice. Some Googling might be in order to see where, if anywhere, this info was published (more comprehensively than Yamashita's mention).

There isn't any immediate gain in translating the other stuff -- it's speculation and analysis of the sort we do. What would be worth translating are some of the things it cites, like passages from the screenplays (which I have the books for).
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Postby Axell » Thu Apr 16, 2009 11:37 pm

so is this like a proposal proposal???????????


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