I Couldn't Resist...

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I Couldn't Resist...

Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:05 pm

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We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby IrkenEvangelion » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:36 pm

I love how close minded everyone is outside of our community here about Evangelion requiring thinking. People today want something they can or have watched over and over again without having to put anything together in their head.
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Postby V » Sat Aug 16, 2008 8:58 pm

actually....that makes no sense: "Eva is too smart for you" can mean anything



Eva is NOT just a show with explosions to watch with no thinking


NOR is it a magnus opus of existential philosophy

Eva is a very good show with some good themes and good philosophical debates.....but too often we verge on "The Evangelion Game" of the mid-90's, in which apparently, Eva was "this new Japanese show which hasn't been fully translated yet, and deals with heavy philosophical concepts, thus varies greatly from translation to translation"..........and thus it became a GAME to try to come up with the WACKIEST, CRAZIEST Eva explanation possible, and people fell into the solipsism that Eva has no real meaning at all.

Saying that "Eva is too smart and we'll never even understand a tenth of it" is solipsism of the lowest caliber.

But I would say that "Eva isn't a show about explosions and fighting giant robots", its about real people
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Postby Formless One » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:03 pm

Your wasting your time on those ignominous trolls. The instant I saw them use the word "pretentious" in the very first response I knew they were full of it. That word should be stricken from the English language, and the person who invented it should burn in hell with their balls shoved up their rectum so demons can kick them simultaneously in the balls and ass for all eternity. It never accurately describes things, it only ever dismisses them. You ought to ignore them because, unfortunately, you can't spit in their faces like you could in reality, and this attitude should get less and less attention if we want it to die.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:09 pm

V wrote:actually....that makes no sense: "Eva is too smart for you" can mean anything
It's called a provocation.

V wrote:NOR is it a magnus opus of existential philosophy
You'll probably find as much of a valid portrayal of existentialism in NGE as you will in, say, Dostoevsky (based on what I've heard, anyway).

Formless One wrote:Your wasting your time on those ignominous trolls.
Nice use of the word ignominious... I don't think I've read it anywhere beyond Meshuggah's lyrics. Anyway, that thread is just for fun. If I take anything serious it's still only me having fun.

Formless One wrote:That word should be stricken from the English language, and the person who invented it should burn in hell with their balls shoved up their rectum so demons can kick them simultaneously in the balls and ass for all eternity.
:thumbsup: This should be sig'd immediately.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Formless One » Sat Aug 16, 2008 9:19 pm

I have done it. :devil:

Edit: Odd, how the word its derived from (pretense) has no such problem.
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Postby RiCkItY_ReD » Sun Aug 17, 2008 6:38 am

Eva Yojimbo wrote:
V wrote:NOR is it a magnus opus of existential philosophy
You'll probably find as much of a valid portrayal of existentialism in NGE as you will in, say, Dostoevsky (based on what I've heard, anyway).


Many - if not most - advocates of Existentialism, cite Dostoyevsky as a huge influence on them. Existentialism is not a clearly defined doctrine, with many different people having many radically differing existentialist theories; of which Dostoyevsky's literature is just one example. Admittedly the movement didn't exist during his time, and if you read his works without being versed in Existentialism, those themes wouldn't be so clear. His "Notes from the underground" is considered the first Existential novel.

Eva is FULL of existential point. It's not a portrayel of any particular theory, nor do i know how versed Anno is in existentialism (There is the "Sickness unto death" eye catch...), either way it bears resemblance to much in Phenomenology and Existentialism. It may be he is as unwilling a participant as Dostoyevsky! A recent book i read by the Pscychiatrist R.D Laing (The Divided Self), joins psychotherapy with Existentialism to great affect, and had me thinking of Evangelion a lot while reading it.

Is it a great philosophical work, with clear theories and ideas? No way. But it is a great work of expressive fiction, embodying, and making real, some very complex ideas.

PS - I can see why people would level the criticism of pretension at Evangelion, what with all the deliberate obfuscation and religious imagery. Not to mention that - i feel - the themes focus on something that not every one is open to. Who was the member of Gainax who said only people with social problems would "get" Eva?

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Postby zimlord » Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:25 am

SweetCockSlapOfJustice wrote:Evangelion is a pretentious, overwrought piece of crap with no redeeming artistic value that set the anime genre back 5 years.

Amen. Tell em how it is, sister.

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Postby Olin of Xephon » Sun Aug 17, 2008 10:50 am

You know the very word pretentious is now pretentious right?
I asked "And where would you take me?"
At this the beast laughed, tears made of my mother's blood leaked from his eyes.
"I will take you to every place you never wanted to be, and you will hate it."
"Then I will take you to every place you've already been, and you will hate that also."
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Postby Formless One » Sun Aug 17, 2008 12:19 pm

Olin of Xephon wrote:You know the very word pretentious is now pretentious right?

Well said!
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Sun Aug 17, 2008 4:52 pm

RiCkItY_ReD wrote:Many - if not most - advocates of Existentialism, cite Dostoyevsky as a huge influence on them.
Oh, I realize that. Dostoevsky got in, as you said, even before it all really started.

RiCkItY_ReD wrote:Eva is FULL of existential point. It's not a portrayel of any particular theory, nor do i know how versed Anno is in existentialism (There is the "Sickness unto death" eye catch...), either way it bears resemblance to much in Phenomenology and Existentialism.
You're right about NGE not being a portrayal specifically (bad choice of word by me). But my point was simply that most all of its "points" (if you can call them that) come from existentialist thought. You're right that NGE doesn't fit in with any particular school. I mean, we have to remember that existentialism includes the "God is dead" theory of Nietzsche to the "All for God" theory of Kierkegaard. It seems to me Anno was just expressing what he felt at the time with no regard to any particular thought - but couldn't the same be said for most great artists?

RiCkItY_ReD wrote:Is it a great philosophical work, with clear theories and ideas? No way. But it is a great work of expressive fiction, embodying, and making real, some very complex ideas.
For the largest part though, making real complex ideas is what fiction is supposed to do. Simple point being is that if NGE isn't a great philosophical piece of visual fiction, then nothing is.

RiCkItY_ReD wrote:I can see why people would level the criticism of pretension at Evangelion, what with all the deliberate obfuscation and religious imagery.
The thing is, if NGE is pretentious because of its intentional ambiguousness and "showy" imagery, then so is most all poetry that's considered great. I've thought for years people have completely misunderstood the religious symbolism, and will probably continue to do so until they get that religious symbolism in fiction doesn't make the work religious.

RiCkItY_ReD wrote:Not to mention that - i feel - the themes focus on something that not every one is open to. Who was the member of Gainax who said only people with social problems would "get" Eva?
I've never quite bought into the "you won't get NGE without social problems". It seems to me you only have to be open to any number of things to "get" NGE (the characters, the the themes, great film-making, etc.). But no fiction features elements that everyone is open to, nor should it. Spielberg connects to a mass audience because he captures a simplicity and sentimentalism that's inherent in most people, but that doesn't make him better than, say, Kubrick who is much more esoteric and challenging than Spielberg.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby TheAyanamiOtaku » Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:06 pm

I agree with you guys.
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Postby The Imperialist » Mon Aug 18, 2008 9:02 am

Too smart, or not too smart, is too vague a definition. Close minded doesn't mean you are not 'smart' in IQ terms, and we could go on forever. The very nature of the question, in my view, should be more precise if we are going to have a proper argument.

But i agree with most of the things posted in here.
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Postby AsukaChan » Mon Aug 18, 2008 2:00 pm

Hahah! I laughed at this because it reminded me of my boyfriend. He thinks NGE is a good anime, but he thinks all of us here on this forum are "pretentious" because we look into beyond what you see on the surface. Ohwells. XD
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Mon Aug 18, 2008 5:30 pm

The Imperialist wrote:Too smart, or not too smart, is too vague a definition.
I guess there needs to be a "tongue in cheek" smiley. I chose that title precisely because it really makes no sense.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby The Imperialist » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:52 am

What is the point then???
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:43 am

Didn't know I needed a point. It's just for fun.
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby Formless One » Tue Aug 19, 2008 11:49 am

Eva Yojimbo wrote:Didn't know I needed a point. It's just trolling.

Fixed for greater understanding.
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Postby Eva Yojimbo » Tue Aug 19, 2008 9:24 pm

Trolling = Fun
Cinelogue & Forced Perspective Cinema
^ Writing as Jonathan Henderson ^
We're all adrift on the stormy seas of Evangelion, desperately trying to gather what flotsam can be snatched from the gale into a somewhat seaworthy interpretation so that we can at last reach the shores of reason and respite. - ObsessiveMathsFreak
Jimbo has posted enough to be considered greater than or equal to everyone, and or synonymous with the concept of 'everyone'. - Muggy
I've seen so many changeful years, / to Earth I am a stranger grown: / I wander in the ways of men, / alike unknowing and unknown: / Unheard, unpitied, unrelieved, / I bear alone my load of care; / For silent, low, on beds of dust, / Lie all that would my sorrows share. - Robert Burns' Lament for James

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Postby THE Hal E. Burton 9000 » Tue Aug 19, 2008 10:46 pm

YES, but tis still wrong
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