If we were to go with the [incorrect] view that GAINAX is pulling a Dark Tower of sorts out of their collective ass, would it be silly to presume that Anti-Spiral-kun was behind the occurrence of Third Impact, or at the very least, the Dead Sea Scrolls and the coming of the Angels?

It's already been established that the human form is the pinnacle of evolution, and all that waits is after that is the coming of the Spiral Nemesis. Likewise, it is also established that humanity is the 18th Angel, and that while all other angels are physically different then humans, they are very similar genetically. Humans retain the "Fruit of Knowledge", which separates us from the rest of the angels who hold the "Fruit of Life". The Fruit of Knowledge gives us the advantage of intelligence and technology, and has the general idea of advancement in every regard, while the other Fruit only allows for power in a relatively standstill sense.

Spiral power stems from the idea that the more you keep going forward, the more revolutions you will make and the more knowledge you will gain; like a spiral. This is parallel to the advantages of the Fruit of Knowledge over the Fruit of Life. Here we can draw a connection: that spiral power can be compared to the effects of the Fruit of Life. And since the bearers of the Fruit of Life have achieved the pinnacle of evolution, while the bearers of the Fruit of Life have not, they can be deemed as non-spiral beings (not anti-spirals, I will go more into this in a sec).

In Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann, there is a safety measure in place to restrict the evolution of the humans: when 1 million monkeys fill the Earth, the moon will become Hell's messenger. AKA, when the population of spiral beings (humans) on the planet reaches 1 million, the moon initiates a plan created by the Anti-Spiral to crash into the planet, wiping out all of the spiral beings and preventing spiral power from developing any further. Flash back to Evangelion, and look at the effects of Third Impact. Upon the joining of the Fruits of Knowledge and Life, all humanity is brought into one single entity at an evolutionary stand-still: parallel to the choice made by the Anti-Spirals to sacrifice their evolution and individual selves to create one collective entity. While the arrival of the Angels could result in the destruction of the spiral beings inhabiting the planet, there's also the chance that it could propel humanity into a near Anti-Spiral state. A win-win situation.

Earlier, I mentioned that the Fruit of Life weren't spiral beings, but non-spiral beings. They are creatures that can't coexist indefinitely with humans for various reasons. Beast men are non-spiral beings who can't coexist with humans for the reason that they can't reproduce. When faced with the prospect of advancement and evolution, while spiral beings keep moving forward, the Beast men die off (viral is an exception to the rule, because a) he's immortal, b) he's badass, and c) he seems to gain spiral power in the final battle against the Anti-Spiral). While there's no evidence that the Angels can't reproduce, it seems to be supported that they can't coexist. Kaworu, the 17th Angel, says as much when being held by EVA-01, telling Shinji that he must kill him. Even though he reached his human form, having born the Fruit of Life Kaworu was incapable of evolution and wouldn't be able to coexist with the Lilin.

Here's my theory:

After the war against the Anti-Spirals that the spiral beings lost, they were scattered across the universe. One of these planets happened to be the planet Earth of Evangelion. Similar to how Lord Genome was able to discover the plan by the Anti-Spirals to keep the spiral beings from advancing, someone discovering similar plans on the Earth led to the writing of the Dead Sea Scrolls, a warning to humanity about a coming threat from the Anti-Spirals.

Flash back to present day, when humanity has finally reached a high point in their advancement of society. Space travel is being initiated, dangerous experiments/theories are being performed, humanity is finally coming to understand the ways of everything. All that can come after this point is the Spiral Nemesis.

It is at this point that the Angels arrive. These creatures are created by the Anti-Spiral and having no evolutionary ability. Due to the inability for spiral and non-spiral beings to coexist, they are meant to destroy the humans before Spiral Nemesis occurs. Yet these Angels are merely a contingency plan. The real plan, as deduced from the Dead Sea Scrolls, is for the joining of the Seed of Knowledge, AKA Lilith, and the Seed of Life sent by the Anti-Spiral, AKA Adam. This would reduce all creatures on the planet to not only an evolutionary stop, but would create one single mind that is content with staying in place. This would be an ultimate achievement for the Anti-Spiral, in not only would they crush the spiral power of the planet, but also potentially create another case of Anti-Spirals. Gendo Ikari, unable to move on from the loss of his wife, decides to initiate Third Impact to bring evolution to a stop and be with his wife again rather then move forward.

[/fanwank]

Although the chances of this being true are comparable to the chances of Kamina arriving to you when your in a drunken stupor and giving you successful relationship advice, it IS possible. And I think, with the correct amount of bitching and moaning to each other, we can refine this to a damn good theory.

I'm assuming this is a joke thread?

At any rate, I think that "theory" of GL being a sequel to every other Gainax show is a bunch of bull.

This is interesting to discuss either way, but I just see the Anti-spirals and the Angels as being two separate and different beings.

The Anti-Spirals are the 19th Angel!

Why stop at just Gurren Lagann?

Medical Mechanica was probably created by the antispirals. Evolution comes about because of change, but medical mechanicas goal was to smooth out the wrinkles in everyones brains making them bland boring people eliminating change.

Atomsk is a seed of life: Atomsk is probably a new type of sead that is neither lillim or Adam based.

And the space fraternitys referred to in diebuster and flcl are probably the same, They probably tried to recreate NoNo after she dissapeared intot he black hole and made Haruko, a slightly defective model that was sent back in time to retrieve Atomsk! This is why in some ways Haruko and Nono have a similar appearance.

The space monsters in gunbuster/Diebuster are probably byproducts of the spiral nemises, the beginning of what would be the end of the universe.

And we can't forget the moon giant in rebuild! The reason why unit 01 from the original series returned after becoming the moon giant is because Yui found out that earth had been reset due to Abe No Seme granting Sasshis wish at the end of Abenobashi returning everything to almost how it was at the beginning of the original eva series!

Fem Kaworu is an antispiral: The reason why Kaworu has no genitals is because he/she is a non spiral being made by the antispirals, similar to Nia. This is the reason why Simon and Nia never tried to have sex, Nia didn't have any genitals either. Kaworu was probably on the moon at the end of rebuild so that he could begin the activation of Lord Genomes ship which was thrown back tot he eva verse due to Nono causing a spatial inversion at the end of diebuster.

The monsters are actually angels: The monsters in melody of oblivion are actually angels. This can be confirmed because we see Adam wrecking up a city in the manga. Their a new breed of angel made not by the antispirals, but by Lord Genome back when he was fighting the antispirals. The Monsters were created as a catilist to accelerate human evolution, this is why 1 out of every 10,000 humans who sees a monster becomes a melos warrior. And the Aiba machines are actually a new type of Ganman created to assist them. This lost technology was later found and used to construct Nono and Haruko.

What's an Anti-Spiral.

Defectron wrote:Words.

I swear you just stole all that from one of my older rants in the IRC.

The Faculty did have a defective model for Nono, but it wasn't named Haruko. It was named Mahoro. She was then given to the Faculty's alien relation division, Vesper. And seeing as they mention that they designed her using Saint technology that they didn't fully understand, it's safe to presume that the designers of Nono are Saints as well, aka the original Earthlings who designed the Gunbuster series. Haruko is merely another species that evolved to the final human form, and she gives evidence to support this whenever she calls Earth humans primitive monkeys. It's doubtful she would use this insult if she had evolved from the same species.

I don't know who Kaworu is, but Kaworu wasn't an anti-spiral, as explained earlier. As for Nia, I think she just didn't know what sex was. Given the moans heard from her sisters when Lord Genome was getting into Razengan, she probably just thought it was "fun time with daddy".

Medical Mechanica was another more successful creation of the Anti-Spirals that removed spiral inhabitants irregardelous of population count in the background of their main activities, sort of like an anti-virus program running on your PC. Given their efficiency at subduing spiral power, the Faculty was established in the first place to be both a countermeasure to Medical Mechanica and to generally police the relations between spiral peoples. the fact that this faculty and the other are the same is supported even further by their knowledge and use of NO gates.

The fucks Abenobashi?

I don't think we were ever on irc at the same time though


Anyway getting back to this

Daicon = FAR?: Daicon, who in some way has made an appearance in every Gainax anime could conceivably be a FAR. In the original Daicon video she can be seen battling various people/things before terraforming a planet. What she was probably fighting here were the forces of the antispirals, but she defeated them and the planet was allowed to evolve. The fact that in almost every gainax anime there's a girl in a bunny girl costume could be chalked up to an ancestreal genetic memory of this epic battle.

Ebichu = Misato post instrumentality: The popular theory is that Ebichu is actually a beastman, however this is incorrect. Ebichu went into heat in one episode and if she were a beastman this would not have occurred simply because Beastmen are incapable of breeding. However I've come up with a daring new solution to this problem, Ebichu is the post instrumentality version of Misato and Kaishonaichi and OL are the post instrumentality versions of Misatos parents. Misato wished to go back to being innocent like she was as a child, this is why when she came back she chose the form of the hamster that was on the beer cans she drank.This is why Ebichu and Misato are played by the same voice actress, it was all deliberate! Now some of you may be saying "Wait? Wasn't Misatos father a workaholic? So how would Kaishonaichi the lazy bum be the same person?" well this is quite simple. During second impact, Misatos father knew he would be killed by seele, so he deliberately had himself tanged to avoid this. He rethought the image of himself in his own heart and came back as PenPen who secretly watched over Misato. However when he was allowed to reform as a human post 3rd impact, he retained the lazy sexually indulgent lifestyle he aquired when he lived as PenPen. Like Gendo he is afraid of getting close to his child, this is why he mistreats Ebichu, but deep down he still cares for her which is why he gave her an omelot in the last episode.

The Faculty did have a defective model for Nono, but it wasn't named Haruko. It was named Mahoro. She was then given to the Faculty's alien relation division, Vesper. And seeing as they mention that they designed her using Saint technology that they didn't fully understand, it's safe to presume that the designers of Nono are Saints as well, aka the original Earthlings who designed the Gunbuster series. Haruko is merely another species that evolved to the final human form, and she gives evidence to support this whenever she calls Earth humans primitive monkeys. It's doubtful she would use this insult if she had evolved from the same species.

Mahoro was most likely a prototype, she lacked the raw power demonstrated by Nono and Haruko. But the theory that Haruko is also an android is actually quite probable. In the manga, it was revealed there is at least two Harukos, this suggests that Haruko is mass produced. Also she may look down on organic lifeforms altogether which may account for the monkey comment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Shopping_Arcade_Abenobashi

In Abenobashi, various universes were linked together, but it was revealed that these were the creation of Sasshis imagination. This may have been done ina similar way to how Shinji made the AU version of his world in the tv ending of eva.

No no no. In the manga, Haruko pretends to be a second Haruko at the end so as to not let Naota know she liked him. I thought that was kinda obvious.

That is possible, but I don't really think we have anything concrete enough to say that was what was happening for sure.

"I'm sorry, the chirality is wrong. It seems our universes are incompatible"

No as SEELE stated that humanity was a evolutionary dead end, therefore if anything 3rd impact is spiral nemesis.

The Spiral Nemesis would completely destroy us, wouldn't it? HIP doesn't destroy us so much as transform us into something else, and the simultaneous "virtue" and deprivation of this transformation sort of HAS struck me as comparable to the Anti-Spirals' case. In some weird way.

I remember attempting Gainax Mishmash Stew in the IRC a little while back, and I tried making a thread for it in Fandom that didn't really go anywhere. Bawwwwwwww.

BTW, BK, we already have a huge plot hole: LOL HOW CAN THE ANGELS NOT BE SPIRAL BEINGS THEY CAN ALL USE SPIRAL POWER AND WE CANT

Reichu wrote:BTW, BK, we already have a huge plot hole: LOL HOW CAN THE ANGELS NOT BE SPIRAL BEINGS THEY CAN ALL USE SPIRAL POWER AND WE CANT

I DEMAND EXAMPLES SO I MAY REFUTE THEM!

On tvtropes.com they have a GUG (Grand Unifying Guess) stating that every GAINAX anime is a spinoff of Gurren Lagann. Here is the copypasta text.

[code:1]A barren earth lapped by a toxic sea, with the only survivors hiding in the buried ruins of the 21st century? Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann is set After The End of End of Evangelion. Note that when Lord Genome swears to show Viral the secret history of mankind, the first thing he reveals is a wall made of thousands and thousands of 'Angel' skulls.
The Angels themselves? Renegade spiral beings, selfishly using their power to advantage themselves at the expense of other races. After the (literally) earth-shattering abuses of Spiral Power that ended the conflict, the Anti-Spiral appointed Lord Genome to keep the remnants of the human race under control in perpetuity. Adam was sealed inside of a robot and renamed 'Lagann'.

* As a slight addendum to this, the entire Human Instrumentality Project was a plot by the Anti-Spiral, to get the human race to wipe themselves out in their effort to evolve/acquire more Spiral Power. The leaders of SEELE fell for it hook, line and sinker. This also means Rei was an Anti-Spiral mole just like Nia. Afterwards, of course, the Anti-Spiral realized this plot was far too complicated and decided to just drop a moon on them next time.
o The S2 Engine/Organ generates Spiral Energy. The "Super Solenoid" part makes this obvious.
o The effects of Instrumentality (everybody abandoning their bodies and merging into a collective cosmic mind) bear a suspicious resemblance to what the Antispirals inflicted on themselves. SEELE were playing with a bootlegged version of the technique without ever fully understanding it.

The Space Monsters from Gun Buster and Die Buster? Also spiral beings, patrolling the galaxy to prevent a Spiral Nemesis event such as the one that consumed two thirds of the galaxy in Gun Buster and nearly collapsed the universe(!) in Die Buster. If not for their tireless efforts, we'd all be 3 nanometers thin today.

The Medical Mechanica from FLCL, the guys that wanted to 'flatten' human nature until we 'can't even think'? Who could be bankrolling these jokers, but the Anti-Spiral? On the other hand, would you like to guess the form Atomsk first takes when he emerges?

Nadia's Gem, the blue water, is powered by Spiral energy in a sort of round a bout way. And, lets face it, if any given civilization was going to be able to use Spiral energy before Humanity had it's crack at the whip, the people of Atlantis were going to be that given civilization.

Series that were manga series previous to their animated adaptation being made by Gainax don't count, This disqualifies He is my Master and Melody of Oblivion. They can also be explained by noting that, clearly, both the bad future of M.o.O and the first part of Lagann can't be happening at the same time (And hence, the one that was fully Gainax's doing takes precedent) and He is my Master plays out with the supposed Gainax world, hence all the references that were in that show are merchandise and costume inspirations that happened from seeing all the Gainax shows.

Kare Kano takes place in the Instrumentality world. Tell me that doesn't explain everything about it.

Hikari and Akari Hoshino are another pair of anti-spiral agents who attempted to wipe out humanity before Gendo Ikari got around to it, but went renegade due to The Power Of Love.

Now, where does Otaku No Video fit in? [/code:1]

Reichu wrote:The Spiral Nemesis would completely destroy us, wouldn't it? HIP doesn't destroy us so much as transform us into something else, and the simultaneous "virtue" and deprivation of this transformation sort of HAS struck me as comparable to the Anti-Spirals' case. In some weird way.

I remember attempting Gainax Mishmash Stew in the IRC a little while back, and I tried making a thread for it in Fandom that didn't really go anywhere. Bawwwwwwww.

BTW, BK, we already have a huge plot hole: LOL HOW CAN THE ANGELS NOT BE SPIRAL BEINGS THEY CAN ALL USE SPIRAL POWER AND WE CANT

Spiral Nemesis is basically the so called "big crunch" its basically a return to nothingness...sound familar?

The Bastard King wrote:

Reichu wrote:BTW, BK, we already have a huge plot hole: LOL HOW CAN THE ANGELS NOT BE SPIRAL BEINGS THEY CAN ALL USE SPIRAL POWER AND WE CANT

I DEMAND EXAMPLES SO I MAY REFUTE THEM!

S2 ENGINE IS POWERED BY SPIRAL POWER

flatulant wrote:On tvtropes.com they have a GUG (Grand Unifying Guess) stating that every GAINAX anime is a spinoff of Gurren Lagann. Here is the copypasta text.

[code:1]AWESOME[/code:1]

I love how this doesn't just match my theory at several parts, but also continues to provide further evidence to support it.

flatulant wrote:

The Bastard King wrote:

Reichu wrote:BTW, BK, we already have a huge plot hole: LOL HOW CAN THE ANGELS NOT BE SPIRAL BEINGS THEY CAN ALL USE SPIRAL POWER AND WE CANT

I DEMAND EXAMPLES SO I MAY REFUTE THEM!

S2 ENGINE IS POWERED BY SPIRAL POWER

I dont think so, if this was true Asuka's eva would of been the size of the moon with all her rage (aka spiral power) she had. It seems to work a little more like Ideon's power.

Reichu wrote:The Spiral Nemesis would completely destroy us, wouldn't it?

No, because we have determination. GL has taught us that if you kick reason to the curb, and are determined enough, you can accomplish the impossible.

honsou wrote:I dont think so, if this was true Asuka's eva would of been the size of the moon with all her rage (aka spiral power) she had. It seems to work a little more like Ideon's power.

EVAs are clearly prototypes, and thus don't have the same sort of powers as refined models do.