AyrYntake wrote:On a similar note, compare the AT Fields of Matariel and Zeruel. They are both approximately the same size, but Matariel was killed in a pathetically easy manner using the previously-ineffective palette rifle; Zeruel, on the other hand, withstood the spear, the rifle, the rocket launcher and even the N2 bomb at nearly point-blank range (with only a thin membrane covering its core). Where's the proportionality in that?!

Zeruel is way smaller than Matarael. Zeruel is maybe 5-10 meters taller than an Eva, while an Eva compared to Matarael is like a person to a one-story building. I'd whip out my Angel size-comparison chart that Reichu made, but I don't have it at the moment.

Also: Humans are not Angels. If you classify humans as Angels then you pretty much have all life as Angels. It's simply mistaken identidy. The only true Angels are Sachiel - Armisael (14). Lilith and Adam are Seeds of Life, each giving birth to a different form of life. (Lilith - Lilin. Adam - Angels) So, while Adam gives birth to the lifeforms that make the monstrous ATF's, Lilith only makes the miniscule.

It could be a possibility (AKA: Fanwank (or this is just a brain fart)), that Lilith doesn't have the same type of ATF as Adam. Lilith is huge, but never shows signs of a physical ATF until EoE, but by that time, she's fused with Adam, and they share the ATF. So, since Lilith may not have that type of ATF, her offspring don't either. (And now it's time to get chewed out.) If Lilith does have a similar type of ATF as Adam and the Angels, please correct me.

I've heard stuff about humans possibly being considered as a whole an 'angel'. If that was the case, their collective AT field might be comparable to an angel.

Bleh, somebody needs to make a page explaining the two definitions of "Angel". Please let it not be me.

Gainax is very inconsistent with their terminology. And I'm still certain that I'm heard Kaworu refer to Adam in the third person.

Sachi_13 wrote:Also: Humans are not Angels.

Yes they are n00b.

If you classify humans as Angels then you pretty much have all life as Angels.

No, only humans count as Angels.

Reichu wrote:Bleh, somebody needs to make a page explaining the two definitions of "Angel".

Lol, fuck that.

Please let it not be me.

Shay Guy wrote:And I'm still certain that I'm heard Kaworu refer to Adam in the third person.

You did.

Sort of like Jesus referring to "God" in the third person... I guess.

STAY ON TOPIC... STAY ON TOPIC...

Gamer_2k4 wrote:I was under the impression that Asuka neutralized Matariel's AT field (like she said she would), meaning that it would have no protection against the rifle.

I believe this is correct, but does it jive with the whole Asuka-doesn't-know-how-to-use-an-AT-field-until-EoE thing?

She was talking about the "meaning of the A.T. Field", like how it was Mama protecting her and stuff.

still, the meaning is pretty closely tied with the application (at least in her case), considering how she got herself pwned so many times during the series.

Lolwut? She used her (Kyoko's) ATF on Sahaqiel.

slothen wrote:I believe this is correct, but does it jive with the whole Asuka-doesn't-know-how-to-use-an-AT-field-until-EoE thing?

She knew how to use it, but the scene in EoE was her learning what the AT field was all about, what it meant, where it came from, that kind of stuff. At least, that's the impression I had of that scene.

Anonymous_Evafan wrote:Lolwut? She used her (Kyoko's) ATF on Sahaqiel.

does she really? All I noticed was Rei saying, 'use your ATF nub.' She supposedly uses it against Matariel, but there's nothing I would consider concrete evidence. There's no mention of ATF's against Sandalphon or Israfel. Angels with substantive ATF's, like Zeruel and Arael completely fuck her over. Its not until EoE that there is any evidence that she understands and knows how to use her AT field as a weapon, rather up until that point she pilots unit-02 like a mundane, completely mechanical robot, which is reflected in her attitude toward it in some of the episodes of the "decent" arc (I don't recall which). The events and animation seen in EoE are a stark contrast, and imply that using the ATF and understanding it are one in the same.

I know its kind of an outrageous claim, that Asuka knows nothing about how to use the AT field, but considering her prideful personality and her relative failures, it is an idea that (to me at least) fits well within the larger scheme of NGE.

Edit: let me back up a bit... the idea that one must understand the AT-fields to use them is irrelevant, and the idea itself has some holes. The main thing I'm trying to say here is that there's no evidence of Asuka using at AT-field before EoE. Ever.

slothen: What Asuka didn't understand was the part about how the ATF was the soul of her mother protecting her. That's all. Pilots deploying the Evas' ATF is extremely basic stuff and Asuka would have been worthless as a pilot from the beginning if she could not accomplish this. (In fact, she wouldn't be a pilot at all.)

ZOMG flash followed by Sahaqiel getting pushed back means nothing?

Rei:
Unit 02! Field to maximum!

Asuka:
I'm doing it!

Really slothen, she'd be useless if she couldn't activate it.

lol Reichu beat me

cuz we were discussing it in IRC. I always found the idea pretty amusing, that through all her bravado, Asuka could never tap into an Eva's true power. God forbid my ideas have any validity. But seriously, I've made serious misinterpretations before, its not a big deal.

I made the post before I started picking on you in IRC, but whatever.

I'm sure Asuka was able to create an AT Field before EoE, I mean she did it in the synchronized battle against Israfel didn't she?

Active A.T. Field deployment is mentioned specifically in 11 and 12 at least. However, as Episode 03 illustrates, unfolding the A.T. Field is something done immediately upon sortieing -- being the Eva's innate defense system and all. Proposing that Asuka has never done this is without any basis or merit whatsoever.

Moving right along?

Moving on...that's to say, back to the topic.

Sachi_13 wrote:It could be a possibility (AKA: Fanwank (or this is just a brain fart)), that Lilith doesn't have the same type of ATF as Adam. Lilith is huge, but never shows signs of a physical ATF until EoE, but by that time, she's fused with Adam, and they share the ATF. So, since Lilith may not have that type of ATF, her offspring don't either.

A friend of mine once suggested that Lilith might not be an Angel...but this seems to be overthrown by Rebuild

Sorry that I'm still off-topic, but I think this has some merit.

slothen wrote:

Gamer_2k4 wrote:I was under the impression that Asuka neutralized Matariel's AT field (like she said she would), meaning that it would have no protection against the rifle.

I believe this is correct, but does it jive with the whole Asuka-doesn't-know-how-to-use-an-AT-field-until-EoE thing?

I like the idea that Asuka hasn't reached her full potential until EoE, but I'm afraid that that just isn't the case. IIRC, her words were, "I understand it now: the meaning of the AT field! You were always with me! Always watching over me!" In other words, she understands what it is, not how to use it.

Of course, right after that, she says something to the effect of, "I can't be defeated, not with Mama protecting me!" And, if memory serves, that's the only time we see Asuka using her AT field defensively. So maybe she knows what it is and how to attack with it (which would definitely fit her character), but isn't aware that it's what's keeping her intact in all of the battles?

Or, to go even further with that, do we ever actually see Asuka getting attacked before episode 19? Heck, do we see ANY of the Evas stopping an attack with an AT field before the movie? Because they sure seem to get torn up easily...