Does Asuka have a pseudo-electra complex?

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Postby Zuggy » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:39 pm

Xard wrote:Where did you pull that Ep 23 off though, I've never heard about it...?

Jimbo is talking about DESTRADO RELEASE that's written on Ritsuko's PDA in #23.

Sailor Star Dust wrote:Something to keep in mind with Freud: While he certainly helped pioneer psychology into what it is today, the people he interviewed and studied were those that grew up with child abuse and/or sexual problems, so it's best to take such theories of girls wanting to boink their fathers/etc with a grain of salt.

Slothen wrote:Also Freudian theory is a bit dated.

BobBQ wrote:The difference between Freud and fraud is one letter.

It doesn't matter if you think Freud's theories are outdated or silly, what matters is if we can learn anything about NGE and what Anno was getting at from him.

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Postby Xard » Fri Apr 25, 2008 3:46 pm

Well, I don't think Freud was complete hack - he had some fine ideas etc. but huge bulk of his writing are complete... you know. Destrudo was so bad idea even HE abandonded it

IIRC book Anno read (during the production of the show, not before btw AFAIK) was book about mental illnesses and prolly some Jung too but not Freud

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Postby Evangelion217 » Mon May 26, 2008 9:58 am

I don't know. But she definitly has a superiority complex.
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Postby Chrono » Mon May 26, 2008 12:08 pm

I'm doing a major in psychology here in Argentina, and what we study the most is Freud and Lacan. Our society has a strong psychanalitic background.

Anyway, what I wanted to say is that the Electra Compex is not a Freud's concept but from Jung, and there are vast differences between both works. Moreover, they were like enemies and Jung was Freud's disciple, Jung had a few discrepancies as considering "all" sexual like Freud.

Anways, the Oedipus Complex happens in both genders but in a different way. The Oedipus complex in women is more complicated, but in both of us our first love object is our mother or whoever takes that place (which is symbolic).

As regarding a superiority complex, i disagree. I think that the way she behaves is a defense to all her dark past. If you go deep into her, you'll find that she's broken like everyone else and she can admit that. Someone who has a superiority complex not only behaves that way but also can't seem to acknowledge his errors.
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Postby Squirrel Ninja » Mon May 26, 2008 12:48 pm

I'm with Chrono about the superiority complex, and that Kaji was an attempt to seem more adult than she was, by the end I got the impression that even she didn't take it too seriously. She was shocked by his death, but by the time of 3rd impact she makes no mention of him.

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Mon May 26, 2008 3:02 pm

With her superiority complex, Asuka's problem is the starting stages of this: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652
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Postby Squirrel Ninja » Mon May 26, 2008 3:42 pm

I don't think you could really say she was at the starting stages of anything. By 23 she's pretty much hit bottom. I also don't know if it's fair to say she had an inflated since of her own importance, as she did have high status at the time. Did she have narcissistic tendencies yes, did it dominate her personality no.

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Postby Mr. Tines » Mon May 26, 2008 3:58 pm

Squirrel Ninja wrote:as she did have high status at the time.


Quite. She would have been being told that she was special for three quarters of her life, ever since becoming an elite Eva pilot. In the German branch of NERV, the world would have revolved about her -- that can be seen from the way she acts when we first see her; much of her descent into despair comes from having that continual reinforcement withdrawn.
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Postby universalperson » Mon May 26, 2008 6:29 pm

Sailor Star Dust wrote:With her superiority complex, Asuka's problem is the starting stages of this: http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/narcissistic-personality-disorder/DS00652


Okay, off topic, but did it have to be MAYOclinic?
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Postby Iron Rooster » Tue May 27, 2008 10:36 pm

This topic is still alive?

You know, I think I've moved on from thinking that Asuka wanted some Kaji-mayo to her just wanting recognition for being an exceptional woman. I think she wants praise as much as Shinji does, but she's just showing it in a different way.
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Postby Squirrel Ninja » Tue May 27, 2008 11:08 pm

Iron Rooster wrote:I think she wants praise as much as Shinji does, but she's just showing it in a different way.


True, she has quite a bit in common with Shinji in that way.

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Postby sadsadshinji » Wed May 28, 2008 12:26 am

I was going to talk about how I also think that Asuka was just trying to be an adult by going after Kaji, but I guess thats been beaten in a lot.
As for her "superiority complex", isnt a lot of it just based in her attempts to hide her vulnerable inner self behind a shell of arrogance? I also feel that she is even more dependent upon praise when compared to Shinji- Shinji is generally at a low self esteem and is jumped up every now and then by a couple of words of praise. Asuka is pretty much a full-on addict in terms of praise and need to be special.

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Postby Squirrel Ninja » Wed May 28, 2008 12:32 pm

I don't know if it's the same in that way. Shinji needs praise, because he wants a justification for piloting eva, because he fells like he has to so he pretends that he's doing it for everyone else. He needs that outright praise to also contain his own since of worthlessness, he lacks any intrinsic motivation. Asuka is almost never praised outright in the series, however she does need to prove that she's the best. It's a more intrinsic motivation than Shinji, but she is still dependent on her skill as a pilot to have any self worth, she's also desperate for attention.

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Postby Kurochi » Wed May 28, 2008 1:08 pm

I feel as though Shinji needs the praise of others to justify his existence, and Asuka needs the praise of herself to justify her existence. She doesn't really care about others. Like you said though, Asuka is almost never praised, but she knows, or at least she thinks she knows that everyone thinks she's the best. (What a run on sentence :P) That feeling of accomplishment, that feeling of being the best is what drives her to do what she does, and when Shinji one up's her, she loses her reason to exist. Hence the supposed suicide attempt in 24.
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Postby Another_Shinji » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:19 pm

Kurochi wrote:I feel as though Shinji needs the praise of others to justify his existence, and Asuka needs the praise of herself to justify her existence. She doesn't really care about others. Like you said though, Asuka is almost never praised, but she knows, or at least she thinks she knows that everyone thinks she's the best. (What a run on sentence :P) That feeling of accomplishment, that feeling of being the best is what drives her to do what she does, and when Shinji one up's her, she loses her reason to exist. Hence the supposed suicide attempt in 24.


I would say Asukas problem is more akin to Narcisstic personality disorder then anything else. She is just as self loathing as Shinji but she conceals it from others, and from herself, with a false self love.

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Postby NemZ » Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:41 pm

I agree with ^.

Asuka acts as if she has total confidence but even early on little cracks appear in that armor. she pushes herself so hard because she wants to convince herself that the fantasy she's built her life around is true.
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