The S2 Problem(?)

Discussion of the new series of Evangelion movies ( "Evangelion Shin Gekijōban", meaning "Evangelion: New Theatrical Edition").
The third installment debuted in Japan on November 17, 2012.

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Postby Sepperoni » Sun Mar 09, 2008 8:28 am

There's another thing about the way the Angels die in the movie that kind of throws a monkey wrench in...well, everything.

Since they explode in a big messy ooze of blood, nothing remains of them. At all. And specifically in Shamsel's case, which was left pretty much entirely intact in the series, that could be a problem...because without Angel remains, there's no S2 engine to recover and duplicate for future Evangelions.

I can see how this might have seemed like a good idea to Anno. Without the S2 engines, that's one less thing they have to spend precious exposition time explaining...but it's just strange. I mean, if Unit 1 decides to get the munchies again, how are they going to explain its sudden awareness? That seems pretty significant to me.

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but not in this thread. If there has been discussion about before...link?

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Postby Nephilim » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:24 pm

WOW, great point!

In the original series, the S2 engine used in unit 04 was Shamshel's.

If Rebuild shows that there was no remains of the angel, where the do they get the S2 engine to use in the unit 04?.

And we know for the trailer of Rebuild 2.0 that there is actually an explosion caused by unit 04.
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Postby Reichu » Sun Mar 09, 2008 11:43 pm

That can be rectified easily enough. Evas are supposed to have S2 Engines (being Adam derivatives and all) but, for some totally unexplained reason, don't. Address this point, and you can write up a way for Eva-04 to get an S2 Engine without requiring a "transplant".

Incidentally, the fact that Angels now apparently explode into LCL when they die (= soul leaves the body = A.T. Field collapses) is rather incompatible with the original show, isn't it? Wonder how the Sequel Theorists hope to get around this one.
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Postby Xard » Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:02 pm

Remember that scar on (propably) Lilith's chest. It makes me suspect they removed her core, scavenging Rei's soul and S2 engine

Or then they scavenged it from Moon Giant. Or something. You get the idea, there's two or maybe even three possible scavengereable critters

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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:06 pm

If that scar is supposed to be from the removal of Lilith's core, it would appear to be much too high, plus the shape is kinda ... funny. I mean, if you want to remove someone's core, you don't need to leave a scar like that. And we don't even know if Lilith is supposed to have a core and/or S2 in the first place.
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Postby Xard » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:16 pm

Funny? I don't see what's so funny about that

My own doubts came from the fact that IIRC Lilith doesn't have core. That's why I mentioned Moon Giant.

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Postby EvaCub » Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:20 pm

Or maybe they took some new part of Lilith out when they went to create Rei
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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:00 pm

EvaCub wrote:Or maybe they took some new part of Lilith out when they went to create Rei

If you want to talk "Rei creation", all of those deformed or "overripe" lower human bodies sticking out of Lilith have always been a bit suspicious.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:45 pm

Maybe in Rebuild, there is a difference between the S2 and the core? Having her S2 removed could be explained by the scar. Core? Yeah, what Reichu said.

Those "overripe" lower human bodies are actually too large to make a human-size body out of, but a fresh pair of legs sprouting out of one might be the right size.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 10, 2008 7:51 pm

UrsusArctos wrote:Maybe in Rebuild, there is a difference between the S2 and the core?

There was always a difference. [/nitpick]

Having her S2 removed could be explained by the scar.

Again, does Lilith even have one?

Those "overripe" lower human bodies are actually too large to make a human-size body out of

Hence "overripe". Some of them might have actually been the right size, though.
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Postby Sachi » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:00 pm

They can get away w/o the S2. It was only really relevant to Unit-01, -04, and MP. And it's still a mystery if the MPE's are even gonna be in Rebuild.
I'm sure they can come up with some other way to have Unit-01 ingest an S2 Organ, if they're even gonna have that happen.
But hey, all we can do is speculate.
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Postby Reichu » Mon Mar 10, 2008 8:26 pm

Sachiel_13 wrote:They can get away w/o the S2. It was only really relevant to Unit-01, -04, and MP.

As was noted, Eva-04 is still here, and still apparently blows up in a big way.

And it's still a mystery if the MPE's are even gonna be in Rebuild.

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Postby NAveryW » Wed Mar 12, 2008 11:53 pm

Reichu wrote:If that scar is supposed to be from the removal of Lilith's core, it would appear to be much too high, plus the shape is kinda ... funny.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:15 am

Lilith's scar doesn't look quite as "messy", for lack of a better word. When I first saw it, I almost wondered it they weren't slapping some esoteric symbol onto her for lulz.

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Postby honsou » Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:25 am

I don't know why but looking at the mask of Lilith gave me a weird impression that it looked just like a incredibly creepy Rei, anyone else get that first impression?

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Postby Sailor Star Dust » Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:46 pm

Yes but it may or may not be Lil's actual face this time around. ;) (Also, being able to see more of what Adam actually looks like instead of just glowing OR her Lilim form would be nice.)
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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:00 pm

Speaking of Adam, Wayne just uploaded this image from the extended OP. It must've flashed by too fast for me to notice, since I never saw it before-

Image

If that's supposed to be Eva-01 (Logical, since it follows what is known to be Eva-01 growing out of Lilith), the core is waaaaay too high up. But one or two "Adams" in the 2.0 trailer (And Shamshel) had the core in more or less the same location. Beats me what this is all about, though.
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Postby Reichu » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:17 pm

Never saw this stuff on the old site, Ursus?

Now that you mention it, yeah, the core is too high up.
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Postby UrsusArctos » Thu Mar 13, 2008 8:30 pm

I always thought there was something wrong about that shot... >_<

I've seen the one of Eva-01 born from Lilith a gazillion times and I think we've even talked about it, but I didn't realize it was too high up because of all the cloth covering. Come to think of it, Eva-01's core is too high in EoE as well, and Eva-02's core just vanishes.

They can't decide where to keep the core, and if a throwaway comment about Sadamoto's manga was right, the same goes for the S2 engine as well.
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Postby cat42 » Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:43 am

Reichu wrote:Lilith's scar doesn't look quite as "messy", for lack of a better word. When I first saw it, I almost wondered it they weren't slapping some esoteric symbol onto her for lulz.


It might be a bit of both. There is a kind of cross that looks like that IIRC.
Well, the center is straight up and down, but it has 3 lateral bits like that, I think.

I'll look later.

EDIT++++
Ok, I didn't notice the 4th lateral line before, lol.

Anyway, not quite right, but the scar still reminds me of this
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